Joe might be easier to trade than expected?

Harry10 · Post #1 » by **Harry10** » Mon May 23, 2011 11:23 am

As horrible as Rose and Westbrook have been playing, Joe's talents could really help a team like the Thunder and Bulls and the development of Rose and Westbrook.

Bulls and Thunder could really use Joe become a dynasty

Dallas also seems like a team that Joe would be perfect on.

i don't know, but the Clippers could be interested.

and the way Bird has been talking, the Pacers could be intersted as long as Granger is not involved.

parson · Post #2 » by **parson** » Mon May 23, 2011 2:17 pm

This may be a bad year to trade Joe. All I'm hearing is how negative his value is right now. Amazing to me, no one seems to think Joe can get anything back. They're treating him like a 50-year old who's falling apart. I've been asking the other boards' fans and the disdain for Joe seems to have become a conditioned response. They assume he's a joke without even thinking about it. I don't think Troy Murphy was as ridiculed -- and he wasn't even allowed to play near the end.

When NJ won't send Lopez and junk back for Joe or CHI won't send Asik and junk, we have a problem.

I don't see IND trading Hibbert -- and there's no use trading if we can't get a Center.

Harry10 · Post #3 » by **Harry10** » Mon May 23, 2011 3:45 pm

^ no way, i could careless if the Hawks gets a center. i would trade Joe for the 42nd pick in a heartbeat

the cap space will allow the Hawks to offer max to Dwight or go to plan B of Andrew Bynum or Al Jefferson

Geaux_Hawks · Post #4 » by **Geaux_Hawks** » Mon May 23, 2011 4:08 pm

I say just keep him.. If the Hawks ever get a decent center, then teams won't be able to shade towards him. I mean Joe's game isn't even based off of athleticism, so I don't think it's hard to believe he doesn't have 3-4 more years left once he fully recovers from that elbow issue. The month of January was what the Hawks paid for and I think the only reason he tailed off from that was because he was being used so much and wearing on that elbow.

Saying you would take the 42nd pick is acceptable since you won't to offer Dwight a max contract is absurd. We would be taking to big of a risk at falling into actual NBA hell. At least with Joe we are a 3-5 seed and have a chance to do something in the playoffs. Without him, we are a late lotto- 8th seed team with a bunch of salary just sitting there..

azuresou1 · Post #5 » by **azuresou1** » Mon May 23, 2011 4:21 pm

parson wrote:When NJ won't send Lopez and junk back for Joe

Lopez has far more value than Joe, given that he's a 23 year old 7 footer with offensive skills who averaged 19/9 last season and 20/6 this season in what was widely deplored as a horrid year for him. He is also on his dirt cheap rookie contract still.

If I'm NJ I'm laughing at any Joe offers, especially since it kills their ability to make a run at Dwight.

theatlfan · Post #6 » by **theatlfan** » Mon May 23, 2011 6:17 pm

1st, the conditioned response of posters here does not necessarily reflect the general feeling of NBA GMs. I remember one guy posting that he'd prefer to have a bunch of guys who outperformed their small contracts (think Dorrell Wright) than have anyone on his team with a max deal. I never heard back from him when I mentioned that there wasn't a team that actually won an NBA title without a guy on a max deal (maybe there was the 1 exception that proved the rule, it was a while ago). NBA GMs are trying to win titles; fans here are just trying to make themselves look smart.

The thing about JJ is that I don't think that GMs are really scared of giving him the $$ he's due now, their bigger concerns would be if he didn't fit with the team then what do you do and, of course, figuring our what to do with him if/when his production falters toward the end of the contract. I could see someone in a "go for it now" mode taking a chance and give up some value in a deal for JJ, but I couldn't see a team that is positioning themselves for future runs do the same. OKC? I'd think they'd pass. DAL? A possibility. CHI? Interesting case. They're built around Rose and Noah who are both young and gives them a longer window than many others, but Boozer ain't 25 anymore and they're in a market where they might be able to afford going for it now, then trying to jettison Boozer/JJ later and remaking the team for another run later. After those teams, who else would be interested though? ORL is the biggest possibility depending on how D12 saga plays out (if they think he's gone, but would prefer to make another run @ the crown with him). I could see other teams with a varying level of interest as well.

Honestly, if we decided to trade JJ, I do think there would be a market for him. No, I don't think we'd get equal value to what he'd be worth if there was only 2-3 years left on his deal, and no, I don't think we could deal him with only taking expirings and young talent, but I also don't think he'd be the hot potato that posters around here make him out to be either. GMs know that you've got to take some risks if you're going to land the title, and they have to ask themselves if the player they're getting enough of a bump in the probability in landing the title to take the risk. It would depend on their situation (as well as their inclination) as to whether they'd pull the trigger or not.

Harry10 · Post #7 » by **Harry10** » Tue May 24, 2011 12:54 am

Geaux_Hawks wrote:I say just keep him.. If the Hawks ever get a decent center, then teams won't be able to shade towards him. I mean Joe's game isn't even based off of athleticism, so I don't think it's hard to believe he doesn't have 3-4 more years left once he fully recovers from that elbow issue. The month of January was what the Hawks paid for and I think the only reason he tailed off from that was because he was being used so much and wearing on that elbow.

Saying you would take the 42nd pick is acceptable since you won't to offer Dwight a max contract is absurd. We would be taking to big of a risk at falling into actual NBA hell. At least with Joe we are a 3-5 seed and have a chance to do something in the playoffs. Without him, we are a late lotto- 8th seed team with a bunch of salary just sitting there..

Hawks going lottery would be the best thing for the Hawks (the depth in the 2012 draft is sick).

Hawks trade Joe, struggle and get a lotto pick and have cap for a max contract and still have Josh and Horford in their prime.

Hawks draft a guy like Anthony Davis, Barnes, Perry Jones, Quincy, Jeremy Lamb, or any of the Kentucky SFs.

Hawks go plan A for Dwight, Deron, or CP3

or Hawks go plan B for Bynum or Al Jefferson

because right now with Joe's contract, the Hawks are already in "NBA hell" as a pretender, even at worst case scenario Hawks still get a lotto pick in a very very good draft, and just struggle for one year then become a legit contender here after

parson · Post #8 » by **parson** » Tue May 24, 2011 2:46 am

azuresou1 wrote:
parson wrote:When NJ won't send Lopez and junk back for Joe

Lopez has far more value than Joe, given that he's a 23 year old 7 footer with offensive skills who averaged 19/9 last season and 20/6 this season in what was widely deplored as a horrid year for him. He is also on his dirt cheap rookie contract still.

If I'm NJ I'm laughing at any Joe offers, especially since it kills their ability to make a run at Dwight.

"far more value" from a 7 footer who shoots less than 50% from the floor and averages 6 rebounds/game? "far more value" than an allstar? I think you're overreacting to Joe's surgery.

And I don't believe it "kills their ability to make a run at Dwight." They're going to be about $16 million under the cap this offseason. The trade offer relieves them of about $3.2 million more. Of course, the cap may change, but I don't see what you're talking about.

azuresou1 · Post #9 » by **azuresou1** » Tue May 24, 2011 2:25 pm

Well you're not listing the junk included - depending on just who is included, the numbers DRASTICALLY change.

23 year old 7 footers who can drop 20PPG on .549 TS% don't grow on trees. 30 year old SGs who average 18PPG on .517 TS% do.

Post #10 » by **HMFFL** » Tue May 24, 2011 10:20 pm

Harry10, check your messages.

Ruhiel · Post #11 » by **Ruhiel** » Tue May 24, 2011 10:32 pm

Dwight wanted to be a hawk before the draft but matching up with them in the POs and maybe behind the scenes he is more sensitive to their business ineptitude.

Don't see Dwight coming. Get me Bogut, Sanders, Gooden, Salmons. for Hinrich, Williams, Horford.

If we give Joe to Chicago only to sign Dwight to the max then they better make sure Marvin can defend and score on Joe come playoffs.

Sign and trade Dwight for Bogut and filler if he and any other free agents wants to come here and become the Atlanta Heat. Dwight coming home to a low-key franchise in a constant ownership flux idk.

JOHN · Post #12 » by **JOHN** » Sun May 29, 2011 6:37 pm

Johnson and Josh Smith

for Boozer,Korver,Watson

?

parson · Post #13 » by **parson** » Sun May 29, 2011 6:43 pm

azuresou1 wrote:Well you're not listing the junk included - depending on just who is included, the numbers DRASTICALLY change..

That's the thing: none of the junk players mentioned are expiring contracts, making the numbers just what I presented (I think. Every time I talk about cap rules, someone teaches me a new rule.).

parson · Post #14 » by **parson** » Sun May 29, 2011 6:46 pm

JOHN wrote:Johnson and Josh Smith

for Boozer,Korver,Watson

?

7647 posts and you're coming to us with THIS?

parson · Post #15 » by **parson** » Sun May 29, 2011 6:53 pm

azuresou1 wrote:Well you're not listing the junk included

Sorry.
Outlaw/Morrow/Farmar/Petro are the junk to accompany Lopez.

See the above post for #s. Only Lopez has much value. They save $3.2 million immediately, making them able to sign a max FA (or wait for Dwight Howard).

Bucked19 · Post #16 » by **Bucked19** » Mon May 30, 2011 2:51 am

JOHN wrote:Johnson and Josh Smith

for Boozer,Korver,Watson

?

Hawks fans don't care about Joe so that would be a good trade.The Bulls would really get some rings with Rose,Joe,Deng,Josh and Noah.Then the Hawks will be irrelevant again and I'll laugh.

dwalton · Post #17 » by **dwalton** » Mon May 30, 2011 3:12 am

JOHN wrote:Johnson and Josh Smith

for Boozer,Korver,Watson

?

this is laughably bad and idiotic in every way.

if the Bulls wants Joe, they are going to have to give expiring contracts and Noah or Asik. if Chicago doesn't want to get a #2 star for Rose and roll with the contenders like Miami, Dallas, or LA, then the Bulls will just end up like the Magic, never winning a title, Rose getting better, but the team's record getting worst and worst every year as Boozer and Deng decline.

Ruhiel · Post #18 » by **Ruhiel** » Mon May 30, 2011 7:05 am

Joe's adjusted +/- is 3.2. His defense is negative so that's pretty good. He's the offensive counterpart to Josh Smith's +4.3.

You can have Marvin for Asik lol.

Hemingway · Post #19 » by **Hemingway** » Sat Jun 4, 2011 6:14 pm

What would it take for Boston to get Joe back?

Ruhiel · Post #20 » by **Ruhiel** » Sat Jun 4, 2011 6:25 pm

Hemingway wrote:What would it take for Boston to get Joe back?

KG's contract