we keep Josh and Al

[myrak433]

what do you think it would take to get Mehmet Okur?

Marvin williams and our 2nd? is Mehmet Okur even healthy?

[jagstang76]

Man, Okur is the type of C I'd like to have but don't know if he's a good option at this point. If he is healthy, he could help this team out a lot and let Josh and Al stay in the post. What's probably better about this deal is getting Marvin's contract off our books and gaining a big expiring contract that we could package with Hinrich's to get someone really good.

[parson]

Look over y'all's heads and see the headline reading,

Jazz Preparing For Draft With Idea Okur Might Not Return

[Ruhiel]

Marvin has $8 million and Jazz would not want that in combination with his lack of consistent impact on winning at either end. I see Marv as a volume shooter who needs a bigger 3 so he can play the 2.
Looking at elite playoff teams he is a bad defender and not much of a threat as a starter at the 3.

[Ruhiel]

Going Forward

Bulls
+rely on Derrick Rose, Deng and Boozer, they beat us with role players who average 5 and 1ppg in the regular season. There production went up against the Hawks. and fell against Miami.

Points Per Quarter

starters scrubs/2-way role players
PG: Rose (6.25) +Watson*(1)=7.5= 30ppg
SG: Bogans*(1) +Korver* (2)= 3= 12ppg
SF: Deng(4) +Brewer*(1.3)= 20ppg
PF: Boozer (4.25) + Gibson*(1.7)= 23ppg
C: Noah (3) + Asik (0.25)= 12ppg
*Bogans is a scrub. affected the game?
*Asik is a scrub. affected the game
*Korver is a scrub. 43%FG%
*Brewer is a scrub. affected the game

Hawks
Points Per Quarter

1) lets say Teague continues production and we rely on him to be a 16ppg guy with 8 assists (2 per quarter, fast breaks isos and pick and roll clear outs)
*also assume that Jamal wont be back bcuz of money management.
PG: Teague (4) + Hinrich(2.5)= 25ppg

2) lets assume Joe recovers and becomes 20ppg,5apg efficient etc.
SG: Johnson (4) + Sy (2?)= 16ppg + (2?)= 24ppg

3) lets assume that Josh doesn't lose weight and is the same 17ppg player per 36 minutes.
Also assume that Marvin Williams is amnestied for a backup SF who can score 8pointspg in 12minutes. So give or take from those 2..
SF: Smith (4.25) + sf (2)= 24ppg

4) lets assume we CAN'T get someone more efficient than Taj Gibson/Jordan Hill. So if Horford gets 20 ppg he gets none.
PF: Horford (4) + Rolle(1?)= 24
lets assume whatever rainbow center we get for going into luxury can match Marc Gasol's 13points per 36 minutes or 3.25 points per quarter.
C: Gasol (3.25) + Pachulia (1)= 14ppg

Hawks Chicago
24 30
24 12
24 20
24 23
14 12
110 97

so basically all we have to do is steal Marc Gasol from the Grizzlies and hope Teague becomes a 16 & 8 guy. and assume Marvin Williams can score 8ppg in 1 quarter.

[azuresou1]

We have absolutely no way to steal Marc Gasol from the Grizzlies. None.

[dms269]

How do we steal Gasol? He is a rfa and more than likely Memphis matches anything. Granted all we could offer him would be mle or similar, so there is no hope there.

[myrak433]

Marvin has $8 million and Jazz would not want that in combination with his lack of consistent impact on winning at either end. I see Marv as a volume shooter who needs a bigger 3 so he can play the 2. Looking at elite playoff teams he is a bad defender and not much of a threat as a starter at the 3.

Marvin Willaims is 6,9" 240 LBS.. he is closer to a center than a sg. I really don't know why you keep harping on Marvin playing the sg, he can't take anyone off the dribble well enough, his handles are awfull for a SG (they aren't to good for a SF but they are ok), and he can not defend SG's. his best position should be SF, but his best game came when he played PF.

but for some reason you are stuck on that game he had against Cleveland when he played SG for the majority of his minutes that one game. but he was being gaurded by Parker and Gibson. come on they are not good on the defensive end.

[Ruhiel]

Marvin has $8 million and Jazz would not want that in combination with his lack of consistent impact on winning at either end. I see Marv as a volume shooter who needs a bigger 3 so he can play the 2. Looking at elite playoff teams he is a bad defender and not much of a threat as a starter at the 3.

Marvin Willaims is 6,9" 240 LBS.. he is closer to a center than a sg. I really don't know why you keep harping on Marvin playing the sg, he can't take anyone off the dribble well enough, his handles are awful for a SG, and he can not defend SG's. his best position should be SF, but his best game came when he played PF.

but for some reason you are stuck on that game he had against Cleveland when he played SG for the majority of his minutes that one game. but he was being gaurded by Parker and Gibson. come on they are not good on the defensive end.

I think Marvin can defend some sgs like Keith Bogans and JJ Redick better than a guy like Kyle Korver could defend him.
And his "handles" or ability to create a shot for himself or teammates are not ok for a sf.
All he can do is catch and shoot.

I'm harping on how outclassed he is. He's 245 pounds yeah and Charles Barkley was 280 at one point and was a better shooter than Marvin at the 4.
I don't want to sit here and defend Marvin Williams again .
We all know Joe's efficiency fell off a cliff last season.
Joe is a good decision maker and showed up in the playoffs but Efficiency wise Joe was J.R. Smith, 35 yo Ray Allen level.
Hopefully Joe regains some form bcuz of that contract. However, if he doesn't its the franchises fault for relying so much on one player.

36 minutes 12 minutes
Teague (4ppq) -Hinrich(3.5)
Johnson (4.5ppq) -Parker (0.8)
Smith (4.2ppq) -Posey (0.9)
Horford (3.75ppq) -Powe (1.7)
Mohammed(3ppq) -Pachulia (1)

76 + 19.7 = 96 points per game.
=Keep in mind Mohammed has never played more than 26 minutes per game and that was 10 years ago for ATL.
so that's 20 points from our bench. On a good day. The NBA is won by scrubs. Lets see Dwyane Wade guard Dwight or Lebron (probably could lol).
Joel Anthony and Udonis Haslem helped beat Chicago. They're scrubs.
////////
which games at the PF are you referring to? Iirc Williams best game was when Joe was out against Boston and Cleveland etc. All he did to do was get fouled a good bit and catch and shoot.
People were saying we could've been .500 noncontenders without Joe and Marv at the 2.

[myrak433]

Ruhiel.

I think Marvin can defend some sgs like Keith Bogans and JJ Redick better than a guy like Kyle Korver could defend him.

anybody can defend Keith Bogans..... what about Wade, Kobe, or Kevin Martin? just to name a few
oh and marvin can't defend JJ Redick either.



And his "handles" or ability to create a shot for himself or teammates are not ok for a sf.
All he can do is catch and shoot.

I'm harping on how outclassed he is. He's 245 pounds yeah and Charles Barkley was 280 at one point and was a better shooter than Marvin at the 4.
I don't want to sit here and defend Marvin Williams again .

We all know Joe's efficiency fell off a cliff last season

.

that is because teams focus in on JJ, what JJ needs is some one to score in the paint so we could have a inside out game. that would take the double team off of JJ. when JJ isn't doubled he goes for 30.


Joe is a good decision maker and showed up in the playoffs but Efficiency wise Joe was J.R. Smith, 35 yo Ray Allen level.
Hopefully Joe regains some form bcuz of that contract. However, if he doesn't its the franchises fault for relying so much on one player.

36 minutes 12 minutes
Teague (4ppq) -Hinrich(3.5)
Johnson (4.5ppq) -Parker (0.8)
Smith (4.2ppq) -Posey (0.9)
Horford (3.75ppq) -Powe (1.7)
Mohammed(3ppq) -Pachulia (1)

I like this roster. this team could have won against the bulls. I think.

76 + 19.7 = 96 points per game.
=Keep in mind Mohammed has never played more than 26 minutes per game and that was 10 years ago for ATL.
so that's 20 points from our bench. On a good day. The NBA is won by scrubs. Lets see Dwyane Wade guard Dwight or Lebron (probably could lol).
Joel Anthony and Udonis Haslem helped beat Chicago. They're scrubs.
////////

which games at the PF are you referring to? Iirc Williams best game was when Joe was out against Boston and Cleveland etc. All he did to do was get fouled a good bit and catch and shoot.
People were saying we could've been .500 noncontenders without Joe and Marv at the 2.

Ruhiel
Bench Warmer

Posts: 1396
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:11 pm

[Ruhiel]

Ruhiel.

I think Marvin can defend some sgs like Keith Bogans and JJ Redick better than a guy like Kyle Korver could defend him.oh and marvin can't defend JJ Redick either.

anybody can defend Keith Bogans.... what about Wade, Kobe, or Kevin Martin? just to name a few

Marvin can defend some sgs better than they can defend him. JJ Redick and Kevin Martin. U're crazy. not many can guard Wade, (Travis Leslie?) and Wade is 30yo I believe.
-Kobe is 33yo. I think his Finals runs are over. He plays 33 minutes.
The only sg that I would worry about is Wade. Kobe is in the West and Martin allows people to shoot 60% against him. He's an embarassment to basketball. He's probably a godsend in fantasy basketball or something.

We all know Joe's efficiency fell off a cliff last season

.
that is because teams focus in on JJ, what JJ needs is some one to score in the paint so we could have a inside out game. that would take the double team off of JJ. when JJ isn't doubled he goes for 30.

OK this is what we have myrak433. we have Josh Smith, zaza pachulia, and al horford. I said get 7'1 Motiejunas power forward with 6'11 wingspan.
7'0.5 230 6'11 - Donatas Motiejunas
7'0.5 260 6'11.75 - Chris Kaman
So basically I want a faster Chris Kaman, a 7'3 Omer Asik to start next to him for a Lakers-Celtics-Heat twin tower lineup. A psuedo-Horace Grant type off the bench, and the longest, most athletic 6'4 guard since Dwyane **** Wade off the bench.
I want Josh Smith to lose weight and be Shawn Marion
For Al Horford's 11 and 9 in the playoffs and Pape Sy. Sue me.

Joe is a good decision maker and showed up in the playoffs but Efficiency wise Joe was J.R. Smith, 35 yo Ray Allen level. Hopefully Joe regains some form bcuz of that contract. However, if he doesn't its the franchises fault for relying so much on one player.
As a 3, Josh Smith has the #1 reb.rate as a 3. Horford has #20 as a 4 and #26 as a 5.
Chances are 1 of those 45 players are going to be in the Eastern Conference Playoffs.
We're talking playoff matchups here.

36 minutes 12 minutes
Teague (4ppq) -Hinrich(0.9)*
Johnson (4.5ppq) -Parker (0.8)
Smith (4.2ppq) -Posey (0.9)
Horford (3.75ppq) -Powe (1.7)
*Nazr(3ppq) -Pachulia (1)
I like this roster. this team could have won against the bulls. I think.

*Hinrich averages 11 points in 36 minutes, thats 3 points a game my bad.
*33yo Nazr Mohammad is and has never played 36 minutes in his career. He will be 34 yo next season.

81.7 + 5.3 = 87 points per game.
=Mohammed has never played more than 26 minutes per game and that was 10 years ago for ATL.
so that's 5 points from our bench.
////////

[/quote]

which games at the PF are you referring to? Iirc Williams best game was when Joe was out against Boston and Cleveland etc. All he did to do was get fouled a good bit and catch and shoot.People were saying we could've been .500 noncontenders without Joe and Marv at the 2.

[/quote]
yet to answer. pretty sure u made up the pf stuff. in playoffs at the 4 he had to play defense and bust zones and was even more of a liability.

[td00]

One of the 2, Josh or Al, has to go.

We do not grow unless we relieve ourselves of one of those 12M salaries.

All i read is how Al made All-NBA and all-star and Josh hasn't. But this offseason, Al is not tradeworthy. We have to get what we can get for Josh at this point.

Not too many teams need a PF. Plenty of teams need defense, length and scoring.

How would Josh look on the frontline of the Knicks with Amare and Carmelo? Do they have anything they can offer? Tony Douglas? The Knicks just don't have much to return and they are going to have a salary situation similar to ours. Heavily weighted at the top, nothing left beyond that.

[myrak433]

One of the 2, Josh or Al, has to go.

We do not grow unless we relieve ourselves of one of those 12M salaries.

All i read is how Al made All-NBA and all-star and Josh hasn't. But this offseason, Al is not tradeworthy. We have to get what we can get for Josh at this point.

Not too many teams need a PF. Plenty of teams need defense, length and scoring.

How would Josh look on the frontline of the Knicks with Amare and Carmelo? Do they have anything they can offer? Tony Douglas? The Knicks just don't have much to return and they are going to have a salary situation similar to ours. Heavily weighted at the top, nothing left beyond that.

this is exactly my thoughts. no one is going to give us anything of true value( what we need anyway) for Josh.... we are not getting Pau or Bogut for Josh. but we could get one for Horford. I just feel that Horford can be replaced easier than Josh.

Tony Douglas?????? I guess you were being sarcastic. I hope so anyway. but if we could get Pau or Bogut for Josh I am for it.

[Ruhiel]

[quote="td00"]One of the 2, Josh or Al, has to go.

We do not grow unless we relieve ourselves of one of those 12M salaries.

Not too many teams need a PF. Plenty of teams need defense, length and scoring.

How would Josh look on the frontline of the Knicks with Amare and Carmelo? Do they have anything they can offer? Tony Douglas? The Knicks just don't have much to return and they are going to have a salary situation similar to ours. Heavily weighted at the top, nothing left beyond that.[/quote]

Al has made All-NBA as a center. We have to split one starter into 2.
Joe is a top player at a deepening position and his 6'8 size will likely always present an opportunity to shoot off of Teague's penetration.
We all know what Smith brings if we split Horford into two sacross the Eastern Conference.
Just in case we don't - For the time he's on the court Josh Smith rebounds 15% of all available rebounds.
Josh rebounds 15%
Marion rebounds 14.3%
Gerald Wallace: 12.8%
Lebron rebounds 11.4%.
6'10 Kevin Durant 10.3% of all boards.
So Josh Smith is the #1 rebounder at the 3. The 16 rebound games arent a fluke at 6'8 he's the top rebounder at his position.
Horford on the other hand averages 9.3 rebounds per game. He uses 35 minutes to get them.
That puts him at 16% of all available boards for the center position. That puts him at 26th overall.
So when you ask why guys like Asik, Boozer, and Gibson are killing him on the boards realize it for what it is.
Horford may be limited offensively but he still was voted as a reserve and the media gave him lots of rewards.
I posted trades that give us the rights to the first 7'0.5ht, 6'11arms guy since Chris Kaman and the rights to the 2nd guy since D.Wade to have the near same body ratio.
Dwyane Wade is 6'4.75 with a 1.07:height:wingspan
ATL native Travis Leslie is 6'4.25 with a 1.08:height:wingspan
So basically he's Tony Allen with more offense ability and transition, lob potential due to having Dwyane Wade's arms and a 41" vert (from Georgia).
we all know Jordan Hill his scoring and dunks in transition are what put us over the top.
::::
basically we become the most athletic team in the league and put out a 2 headed monster at each position.

Teague/Hinrich
Leslie/Johnson
6'8 Smith/ 6'9 Prince
{230-Chris Kaman}/J.Hill
{7'3 Perkins} / Pachulia

*yeah we only get the 6'9 Prince as a backup if {Williams} is amnestied.

our backup who could take Joe Johnson's spot this year
TRAVIS Leslie
who would create a smaller, more compact version of D-Wade, big hands and he makes Wade look slow combo guard to the max
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cu9ECHd9u8[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvblnXCONLA[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMMQZB6k3J4[/youtube]

Motiejunas + Hill = 32 ppg potential
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sk55SbXRkQ[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giBoLFew-oQ[/youtube]

Perkins + Kaman= Hasheem + Motiejunas = Twin Towers
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_1bY-aUHt4[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRFftJqL2xk[/youtube]
:::
Horford+Sy = Rockets 2 Picks: 7'1+7'3 +6'10 + Leslie

[Ruhiel]

splitting Horford into 4 good players in a weak draft all the talent may be gone early.
Chris Kaman junior we miss u already

Donatas Montiejunas, a 6-foot-11 power forward, is playing for Benetton Treviso in the Italian League. Benetton has advanced to the semifinals of the Series A League. After the playoffs, Montiejunas plans to attend the adidas EuroCamp June 11-13.

As such, Herb Rudoy, Montiejunas' agent, said his client won't be able to work out for any NBA teams before the draft.

"It's not that he doesn't want to; he just can't," Rudoy said.

Rudoy also said he is in the process of setting up a physical for Montiejunas with an NBA team and then having the results forwarded to other teams interested in Montiejunas

Read more: http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... z1O3ltd7sf"

[dms269]

Why do you have to hijack every thread on the board into your love affair of Leslie and Montiejunas? We get it, you love both of those. We don't need every thread turned into you posting the same thing over and over.

[Ruhiel]

Why do you have to hijack every thread on the board into your love affair of Leslie and Montiejunas? We get it, you love both of those. We don't need every thread turned into you posting the same thing over and over.

just covering my @ss if they pan out so I could say I told u guys i warned u so.

i don't really believe Atlanta will make any moves this year, I just would be aggressive scouting if I were the GM. The worse position to be in is a playoff team that lost. no lottery and a year older. I think its a make or break year for the organization to get a center. it'll be interesting to see if Josh leaves in 2013 or if he/anyone gets traded.