Euroleague Adj. +/- ..how good is Rubio really? Hint: Amazin

jinxed · Post #1 » by **jinxed** » Tue Jun 7, 2011 5:34 am

Traditional box score stats just don't translate over in Europe..for instance league MVP Dimitris Diamantidis averaged 12 points and 6 assists this year...What we have been needing is a plus/minus based stat. Specifically Adj +/- to really tell how a player is impacting his team on the offensive and defensive end of the floor.

I've been waiting for these stats for a long time, finally someone has come up with Adj +/- stats for Euroleague. These stats are culled from the last two seasons.

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/euroleague-ranking

As you can see. Ricky Rubio rates as the 4th best overall player over the last two years in Europe. And the BEST offensive player.

Now for those of you who know European basketball, you know that Ricky's FC Barcelona team plays in two different leagues. The Euroleague, and the Spanish ACB league. So how does Ricky perform in the ACB? Just as well.. He ranks as the 3rd best player in the ACB, behind teammates Erazem Lorbek and JC Navarro.

Bucksfans1and2 · Post #2 » by **Bucksfans1and2** » Tue Jun 7, 2011 5:38 am

Rubio is the most overrated player in the history of Basketball. He's surpassed Allen Iverson.

jinxed · Post #3 » by **jinxed** » Tue Jun 7, 2011 5:46 am

Bucksfans1and2 wrote:Rubio is the most overrated player in the history of Basketball. He's surpassed Allen Iverson.

Well it seems as though the numbers back the hype ...

mysticbb · Post #4 » by **mysticbb** » Tue Jun 7, 2011 5:58 am

Rubio was also 3rd in the ACB this season: http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/acb-ranking

Those numbers are RAPM, ridge regressed +/- numbers, not typical APM numbers. All players are basically moved to the middle more. It is also normalized to 70 possessions, not the typical 100 possessions. Both things are the reason why those numbers are looking a bit smaller, but the results are more stable than usual APM numbers.

Rubio shows an impact on the game beyond boxscore numbers. And I guess that can translate to the NBA.

Optms · Post #5 » by **Optms** » Tue Jun 7, 2011 6:03 am

Bucksfans1and2 wrote:Rubio is the most overrated player in the history of Basketball. He's surpassed Allen Iverson.

Who overrates Iverson? WHO?!

IanJames · Post #6 » by **IanJames** » Tue Jun 7, 2011 6:13 am

Bucksfans1and2 wrote:Rubio is the most overrated player in the history of Basketball. He's surpassed Allen Iverson.

how many times have you seen Rubio play, guy? how many spanish league games have you sat down and watched?

AChand90 · Post #7 » by **AChand90** » Tue Jun 7, 2011 6:30 am

Optms wrote:
Bucksfans1and2 wrote:Rubio is the most overrated player in the history of Basketball. He's surpassed Allen Iverson.

Who overrates Iverson? WHO?!

Malfa · Post #8 » by **Malfa** » Tue Jun 7, 2011 6:39 am

i lold @ "guy"

Raps in 4 · Post #9 » by **Raps in 4** » Tue Jun 7, 2011 6:56 am

It's going to be fun watching all the haters eat crow when Rubio lights up their teams. This kid will be a stud in the league.

Ripp · Post #10 » by **Ripp** » Tue Jun 7, 2011 9:35 am

Interesting.

ITK9 · Post #11 » by **ITK9** » Tue Jun 7, 2011 9:40 am

Bucksfans1and2 wrote:Rubio is the most overrated player in the history of Basketball. He's surpassed Allen Iverson.

you mean Allen Iverson former mvp, future hof?

KV20 · Post #12 » by **KV20** » Tue Jun 7, 2011 9:49 am

Stats don't make it all even in the nba. Rubio plays less than 25 minutes in with fc barca. He is a role player that defend and dishes sometime assists. He is not like Diamentidis. Rubio is like Deshaun Stevenson at the point guard position and without a good jump shot. He was a role player in ACB guys!
Nobody knows what he will do in nba with a bigger role.

BamBam9 · Post #13 » by **BamBam9** » Tue Jun 7, 2011 9:57 am

If the coaches would give priority to the statistics to put a player on the court, Ricky would not be a professional player.

Rose(or players who needed 25 shots to get 20 points.) in a big team in Europe, would score no more than 10pg, and probably would not play more than 25 minutes.

sca · Post #14 » by **sca** » Tue Jun 7, 2011 10:12 am

BamBam9 wrote:If the coaches would give priority to the statistics to put a player on the court, Ricky would not be a professional player.

Rose(or players who needed 25 shots to get 20 points.) in a big team in Europe, would score no more than 10pg, and probably would not play more than 25 minutes.

While it's true that his PPG averages would be nowhere as close to what he's averaging in the NBA, this is ridiculous.

xprt · Post #15 » by **xprt** » Tue Jun 7, 2011 11:08 am

sca wrote:
BamBam9 wrote:If the coaches would give priority to the statistics to put a player on the court, Ricky would not be a professional player.

Rose(or players who needed 25 shots to get 20 points.) in a big team in Europe, would score no more than 10pg, and probably would not play more than 25 minutes.

While it's true that his PPG averages would be nowhere as close to what he's averaging in the NBA, this is ridiculous.

Yea rose would probably score something like 15ppg and 5 assist on average % because in Europe there isnt defence 3 secs so paint is loaded. Thats why Iverson was bad at second europe league as his jumper sucked.

BamBam9 · Post #16 » by **BamBam9** » Tue Jun 7, 2011 11:22 am

sca wrote:While it's true that his PPG averages would be nowhere as close to what he's averaging in the NBA, this is ridiculous.

I say this because in Europe, if you miss 4 shots in a row, or lose 3 balls in a row, you go to the bench and not get out in 8-10 minutes. Players like Rubio (difficulty score) can not throw 10-15 times a game, because you lose the game, so he has made those statistics, Ricky releases 3-4 times per game, no more. That's why I laugh when people critical because it has a 33% shooting or have a 5.3 in ppg etc ...

In Europe, the statistics have little meaning, does not make you good or bad player.

sca · Post #17 » by **sca** » Tue Jun 7, 2011 1:40 pm

xprt wrote:
sca wrote:
BamBam9 wrote:If the coaches would give priority to the statistics to put a player on the court, Ricky would not be a professional player.

Rose(or players who needed 25 shots to get 20 points.) in a big team in Europe, would score no more than 10pg, and probably would not play more than 25 minutes.

While it's true that his PPG averages would be nowhere as close to what he's averaging in the NBA, this is ridiculous.

Yea rose would probably score something like 15ppg and 5 assist on average % because in Europe there isnt defence 3 secs so paint is loaded. Thats why Iverson was bad at second europe league as his jumper sucked.

Actually, Iverson suffered from overall suckiness. He couldn't even beat his man off the dribble, he was strictly a jumpshooter (and unsurprisingly, an inefficient one)

Junkball · Post #18 » by **Junkball** » Tue Jun 7, 2011 2:16 pm

I don't know how they adjust the +/- in this statistic. 82games had an adjusted +/- which was basically the God Statistic. This statistic could be different. It most certainly has a much greater margin for error than any NBA corollary would possess (due to a much diminished sample size).

However, I'll assume that Rubio is one of the best players in Europe. That still leaves open the possibility that few (current) European league players are ready to make the jump. The NBA has certainly mined this area.

RexBoyWonder · Post #19 » by **RexBoyWonder** » Tue Jun 7, 2011 2:45 pm

are u for real OP?

that's just ridiculous.

ive seen the kid play, mark my words : Darko 2.0.

BadWolf · Post #20 » by **BadWolf** » Tue Jun 7, 2011 3:23 pm

Junkball wrote:I don't know how they adjust the +/- in this statistic. 82games had an adjusted +/- which was basically the God Statistic. This statistic could be different. It most certainly has a much greater margin for error than any NBA corollary would possess (due to a much diminished sample size).

However, I'll assume that Rubio is one of the best players in Europe. That still leaves open the possibility that few (current) European league players are ready to make the jump. The NBA has certainly mined this area.

Rubio is not one of the best players in Europe, far from that, he was probably 4th/5th best player on his team, he's coming of the bench. i don't follow spanish playoffs but he's stats look awful and his role is getting smaller (any insight into that?)
maybe two years ago, but he just didn't develop as expected
We'll see how his game fits in Minnesota, hopefully they'll abandon triangle as it doesn't play to his strengths (or the team's strength)