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Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

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Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4 

Post#81 » by NbdyBeatsTheWiz » Tue Jun 7, 2011 2:45 pm

LyricalRico wrote:Re: Minny trading for DeRozan

Thinking about it, DeRozan+5 for the 2 makes sense if the Raptors are serious about moving Bargnani to PF. I would think they'd go for Kanter since he potentially fills in the things Bargs lacks (strength, rebounding, post scoring).

If that happens, I see picks 3/4 being Williams and Valanciunas (in either order) and then I'd have to think Minny would go big at the 5 spot. Maybe Biyombo? I seem to recall reading something (I think by Chad Ford) saying that Minny would even consider Biyombo at 2, so taking him at 5 makes sense IMO. That would pretty much leave us with squat, though.

1 - Irving
2 - Kanter
3 - Williams
4 - Valanciunas
5 - Biyombo
6 - ???

Could we pre-empt that scenario by moving up to Utah's spot with an offer like Seraphin+6 for Okur+3? Could work if they really want a guard and wouldn't have to worry about Toronto taking their guy since they traded up for Kanter. I'd take Williams, of course.


A Kanter/Bargs frontcourt's defense would be laughable. But then again its Toronto, sometimes it seems that what they aim for. (*sigh* coming from a Wiz fan, thats like the pot calling the kettle black)
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Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4 

Post#82 » by nate33 » Tue Jun 7, 2011 2:47 pm

Also, if Toronto really wanted Kanter, I think they could move up to #3 and pay a much lower price. If Cleveland drafts Irving, Utah can be sure that they won't take Knight at #4. So Utah wouldn't mind trading down from #3 to #5 where they'd still get Knight.

This doesn't make a lot of sense for Toronto. Toronto desperately needs a PG. They're sitting pretty right now. They're sure to get Kemba Walker if they stand pat, and there's a decent chance that Knight will be on the board too. I don't see them sacrificing a core piece to acquire a big man when they have a huge hole at PG and one or two viable candidates on the board at #5.
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Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4 

Post#83 » by dobrojim » Tue Jun 7, 2011 4:17 pm

thinker07 wrote:Wizards 2011 drafting guidelines:

1) Must be physically tough;
2) Must have a strong competitive fire;
3) Must be a good teammate fit personality and skill-wise for Wall; and

Did I forget guideline #1?

NO KNUCKLEHEADS

Can't see ANY possibility that Ted would sign off on Tyler, even if EG dared propose drafting him. Ted was deeply stung by the Arenas fake injury so Nick could play stunt - I talked to him the next day and he was literally in pain over it. I bet there was equal pain over the Baltche sponsored Wizards Lap Dance Night. There is ZERO chance that they'd take a guy like Tyler with his history of immaturity.


agree with each of the criteria listed but one you left out that
I believe this team needs as much as anything is Hi-IQ players
who know how to win/make winning plays/solid fundamentally.
Physical talent and athleticism is all well and good but doesn't
make you special in the Assoc.
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Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4 

Post#84 » by dobrojim » Tue Jun 7, 2011 4:38 pm

Re NY - we all understand he's not a stat stuffer but some here
are ignoring his defensive prowess. He IS a tough defensive
matchup for a lot of SGs.

That said I am not terribly concerned with re-signing
him due to the number of other attractive 2s that might
be available if someone wants to overpay Nick. Stuckey
Afflalo, JR Smith are 3 that come to mind immediately
and the list I saw earlier has some others as well.

Not a great Walker fan as far as keeping him if drafted
since I'm not convinced, at this time, he'd be a major
improvement over Crawford so absent an attractive
trade, I think the pick (6) would be better invested
elsewhere. But if forced, we keep them both (JC/KW) for long
enough to let natural selection drive the decision on
who to keep long term.

Re Singleton
I understand the hesitancy. He does appear to be a reach
at 6. OTOH, if he can defend guys like LeTrav, PP, Melo, JoeJohnson...
he could be valuable on that basis alone. Having to take him at 6
would be a disappointment, but might work out in the long run
assuming he does have the requisite traits (in the post I replied to
above) as advertised.
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Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4 

Post#85 » by TGW » Tue Jun 7, 2011 5:03 pm

New draft order:

1. Cavs -- Derrick Williams. Cleveland is going to take him over Irving because Williams has more star power and is a more marketable player.

2. Raps via trade -- Kyrie Irving. I think the Raps are going to move up somehow and take Irving. They might sacrifice Derozan or trade a future pick.

3. Jazz -- Brandon Knight. They are taking the best pg left on the board, which is Knight.

4. Cavs -- Kemba Walker. They passed on Irving and now are going to take the best pg left, which is Walker.

5. Wolves via trade -- Enes Kanter. The Wolves wanted a 2 guard and another bigman. They can hypothetically fill both holes by trading down.

6. Wizards -- Jonas V. Simply the best prospect left next to Biyombo. The Wiz aren't going to pass this kid up here.

7. Kings -- Kawhi Leonard. The Kings want to add another athletic wing. Leonard fits the mold.

8. Pistons -- Bismack Biyombo. They think Biyombo has Ben Wallace potential, and think BB would be a good fit next to Monroe.

9. Bobcats -- Marcus Morris. They want another scorer that can contribute immediately. Morris fits the bill.

10. Bucks -- Jan Vesely. They want more athletes and Vesely is arguably the most athletic wing in this draft.
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Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4 

Post#86 » by tsvqt » Tue Jun 7, 2011 5:06 pm

tontoz wrote:
nate33 wrote:Let's hope they acquire one via trade rather than target Nick Young in free agency.



I am more worried about Chicago. He would fit in perfectly there on both ends.


I have been on the NY1 to Chicago thing since the season ended. If I was him, and Chicago wanted me, I'd be outta here!
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Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4 

Post#87 » by closg00 » Tue Jun 7, 2011 5:21 pm

Fords tweet FWIW.

Kawhi Leonard versus Jordan Hamilton in Washington. Big workout for Leonard. Wizards like him. Could help seal the deal at 6


If the top- 6 are gone, I prefer Morris over Leonard.
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Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4 

Post#88 » by dobrojim » Tue Jun 7, 2011 5:46 pm

it has the ring of truth but the fact that it has now
been released as news means it's not likely to
go down that way.
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Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4 

Post#89 » by Induveca » Tue Jun 7, 2011 5:48 pm

closg00 wrote:Fords tweet FWIW.

Kawhi Leonard versus Jordan Hamilton in Washington. Big workout for Leonard. Wizards like him. Could help seal the deal at 6


If the top- 6 are gone, I prefer Morris over Leonard.


I've watched a bunch of videos of Leonard, and quite frankly I'm not impressed. His go to move seems to be this little half hook one handed flip shot with no elevation. Getting that garbage up over SDSU competition is one thing, won't happen in the NBA.

Everything I've seen from the kid screams overrated. Literally all of his shots in the "highlights" I watched on YouTube would be blocked or contested in the NBA. There is no way in hell he gets ANY of these shots to go down in the pros....even the few dunks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQhpamVA59c

I pray we don't take this guy. If Kanter is off the board I'd go with Biyombo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_SB-ZKAhGM

Watch this guy, he is FAR beyond Leonard in development/aggression/poise/upside.
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Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4 

Post#90 » by jivelikenice » Tue Jun 7, 2011 5:51 pm

Toronto would be absolutely foolish to offer Derozan adn the 5th pick to move up to #2. He's only 21 and is rapidly improving as an overall player. If that's how Toronto values him, we need to reach out ourselves and se if he's available. I'd prefer him to any prospect who will be at 6 (outside of Kanter if he falls)....
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Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4 

Post#91 » by tontoz » Tue Jun 7, 2011 6:07 pm

Leonard and Vesely are in the same boat in my book. I think both would be lousy picks.
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Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4 

Post#92 » by dobrojim » Tue Jun 7, 2011 6:09 pm

for my money Leonard sounds better than Vesely
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Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4 

Post#93 » by verbal8 » Tue Jun 7, 2011 6:29 pm

dobrojim wrote:for my money Leonard sounds better than Vesely

Foye and Miller sounds better than Vesley, ok maybe that is going too far.

I would rather trade the pick for a rookie from last year, than draft Vesley. I think Paul George, Cousins, Monroe, Favors and probably Ed Davis are more valuable than the Wizards pick(especially if Kanter is not an option). However I would rather trade for Patterson, Sanders or Aminu. I would even consider Wesley Johnson, Evan Turner or Udoh as better option.
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Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4 

Post#94 » by tontoz » Tue Jun 7, 2011 6:41 pm

dobrojim wrote:for my money Leonard sounds better than Vesely



Leonard is weak, cant jump and was one of the most inefficient scorers in the draft.

It is like deciding between drinking castor oil or eating dirt. Both are nasty.
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Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4 

Post#95 » by REDardWIZskin » Tue Jun 7, 2011 6:43 pm

Why no video from the Jenkins, Williams, Leonard, Hamilton, Benson workout. That is clearly the best workout in terms of recognizable names so far. I would be happy if we chose three players from this workout alone in this group, especially if we trade back to 8 or 9 in a Kemba bidding war. Benson is Underrated IMO with his perimeter shooting, rebounding and the FACT that he lead the nation in blocks last yr. He will push AB for playing time immediately.
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Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4 

Post#96 » by dobrojim » Tue Jun 7, 2011 6:54 pm

tontoz wrote:
dobrojim wrote:for my money Leonard sounds better than Vesely



Leonard is weak, cant jump and was one of the most inefficient scorers in the draft.

It is like deciding between drinking castor oil or eating dirt. Both are nasty.



OK Clearly I was damning with faint praise
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Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4 

Post#97 » by WizarDynasty » Tue Jun 7, 2011 6:58 pm

the problem is that neither Leonard or Vesely are fluid coordinated athlef you watch Leonard closely, you see he is very stiff in his movements and doesn't have alot of flexibility. When he makes jab steps, his body is stiff like a board, when he attempts to go for dunks or shots in the paint, he doesn't have alot fine coordination. He reminds me alot of al thornton both were very stiff. The only difference its looks like between Thornton and Leonard is that Leonard has a higher basketball aptitude. Leonard just doesn't have alot of explosive on his first step either at 6'6 really neutralizes his great arm length. His shot is also very stiff. His big hands help rebounding but he doesn't look like he has alot of core body strength or gracefulness. I would like to compare him to scotty pippen and Worthy were way more explosive and had better fine motor coordination than Leonard.

i would take Singleton over leonard and Vesely especially considering who the small forward are that he has to match up with on an nightly basis. Singleton is more fluid and explosive than Leonard. Leonard has more of a shooting guard frame and he isn't that explosive defensively or offensively.
Vesely is to soft to guard a --joe johnson, lebron james, carmelo anthony, paul pierce. Singleton reminds me of a better three point shooting Gerald Wallace.
Singleton over Vesely and Leonard.

singleton has stiffness issues as well but he is a player that will earn his money defensively, and he can definitely knock down the three and what i like is how fluid he looks with curl off picks, catch and shoot threes. That's going to really be a dangerous. i like that he compares himself to scotty pippen. If worse comes to worst we take singleton at 6. Leonard doesn't have the frame or explosveness to match up with the stronger athletic three's. His body is much more a shooting guards than a small forward despite the fact that he is a really good standing reach. IF he has more explosiveness with his vertical he could actually make his standing reach useful, but combination of not being explosive, not having fine coordination offensively--singleton also doesn't have fine coordination but singleton will develop into a deadly three point shooter and an excellent target for John Wall.
I definitely see Singleton as better fit for us than Marcus Morris.
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Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4 

Post#98 » by closg00 » Tue Jun 7, 2011 7:08 pm

tontoz wrote:Leonard and Vesely are in the same boat in my book. I think both would be lousy picks.


+1 They are both on my Do Not Want list, not hating on them, but I see Leonard as a terrible fit coming off the bench for Shart.

I concede that Vesely could be a good transition player next to Wall, but everything else about his game is a negative.

I like Morris in our line-up with Wall.
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Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4 

Post#99 » by REDardWIZskin » Tue Jun 7, 2011 7:16 pm

Atleast Leonard can defend and has offensive potential. Could our team use a player like Trevor Ariza in our rebuild? I think so. Their predraft measurements and combine results are almost identical. I'm fine with Singleton or Leonard I'd just be prefer if we could pick them up later while getting and additional pick. I don't know what you talking about Wiz D as far as Leonard being as stiff as a board that is way off. He shows fluid movement on cuts and can use both hands around the basket. He also suffered from bad guard play
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Re: Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4 

Post#100 » by nate33 » Tue Jun 7, 2011 7:26 pm

I think Leonard is smoother than Singleton. Singleton looks bigger, but much of that is upper body strength which isn't as important. Given the way Leonard rebounds, I think it's safe to say he's just as tough as Singleton even if he's a bit lighter.

Code: Select all

Name              Ht.NoSh   Wt.     Wngspn    Reach     Fat     
Kawhi Leonard     6'6       227     7'3       8'10      5.4     
Chris Singleton   6'7.75    230     7'1       8'7.5     7.4     

Name              NS Vr   Mx Vr   Bnch    Agility   Sprnt   
Kawhi Leonard     25.5    32      3       11.45     3.15   
Chris Singleton   30.5    37.5    15      11.33     3.09   

Leonard is longer. Singleton jumps better. They're roughly equal on the quickness drills.

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