Kyrie Irving for Derrick Favors

[finnegan]

Would you do it? I think that I would.

I was proposing some trades in the Minnesota forum, and "shrink" suggested that if Cleveland takes Derrick Williams #1, that they would take Kyrie #2 and trade him to us for Derrick Favors + #12, since Rubio is coming over.

Thus we would get Kyrie at #2 and Kanter at #3, at the cost of Favors and possibly Jimmer at #12.

I realize that "shrink" is not the Wolves GM, but it is an interesting proposal. If it were a real proposal, would the Jazz go for it?

Not sure why they would want Favors when they already have Love.

[d-will8]

Absolutely not. I'd hate that. I think it's a lot harder to get a big man with Favors' physical tools and two-way upside than it is to get a point guard like Irving. I also think a player like Favors is a more essential piece to have on a championship team than a player like Irving. If we were talking about a freak point guard prospect like Rose or Wall, it'd obviously be a different story, but we're' not, so it isn't. When you consider that we could keep Favors and draft Knight if we want a PG, that trade just seems crazy to me (I guess you could argue that Irving/Kanter would be a better combo than Knight/Favors, but I think you'd be wrong, especially considering that I'd like the Jazz to prioritize defense going forward).

[carrottop12]

Irving has a ton of question marks stll, favors has shown a ton of promise.

Favors would have been #1 in this draft.

[Neon Black]

Heeeeelllllll no.

[hoops4life]

Wow... Favors AND the 12th... of course they would to it. There is no way that we would do it.

You can look on a few pages back on the trade board. There was a huge discussion about this.

[carrottop12]

Trading the 3 pick in what was a pretty good draft, and an additional lottery pick for the 2 pick in a draft most people say is one of the worst ever?

[reapaman]

Knight > Irving
Favors > Darko > Kanter

I'll stick with Favors and go with Knight in addition to the player we get at #12 since we need better depth especially at the 2/3.

[Xsy]

Kyrie only played what, 7 NCAA games before being injured?

Nah.

[dr0welf]

nope

[kamazilla]

Who ever told the OP that there are no stupid questions lied.

[jazzfan1971]

See sig.

[Fido]

Don't even have to think about that one.....of course not.

[UTJazzFan_Echo1]

nope

[BarneyGumble]

Wow. I was looking for someone who agreed with the trade proposal so I could pick on them. Glad I didnt find anyone....

[erudite23]

You might find some traction if you were to offer Kyrie + the 20th pick for Favors...but the idea that WE would sweeten the deal is ludicrous. The heart of this issue is that everyone overvalues their own assets, so neither team would consider doing a Favors for Irving swap straight up. That said....I like the heart of it. I mean, its ok. It isn't a rip off or anything to think of a Kyrie for Favors deal straight up.

All this "bad draft" talk has obscured the fact that Irving is a legitimately awesome prospect. There is an issue with the amount of PT he got this last year in college, but he was HIGHLY productive when he did play (if his season stats would have been the product of full season, it would have been the best statistical season by a freshman PG...ever; he was that good) and he was a top 5 HS recruit. Considering that half a decade ago we were drafting players straight out of HS in the top 3 every.single.year, its hard to hit him too much for lack of PT. Irving, imo, is going to be great. He has the intangibles, skills and craft that produce great basketball players. I would take him ahead of Wall and Rose(who is the most overrated player in the NBA by a mile right now). I love him and think he will be a legit star-to-superstar.

He is a better prospect right now than either Paul or D-Will when they came out, and if he had been healthy all year I think he would have solidified himself as the #1 just as solidly as Wall did before him...and let's not forget that going into the workout phase of the 2008 draft, it was Beasley that was considered the "prize" and Rose that was #2.

All that said, I'm done with watching a Jazz team that is soft in the middle. Favors has a legitimate chance to become a dominant defensive force in the paint. You don't trade those types of guys unless there are mitigating circumstances involved (i.e. character concerns, contract issues or the like). And you CERTAINLY don't sweeten the **** pot to do it. Morons.

[finnegan]

Favors would have been #1 in this draft.

That is debateable. Favors is more dominant on the defensive end, but Williams is dominant on the offensive end and has a freakishly high 3P%. The league values offense of defense, so it may be closer than we are characterizing.

Players Name_____PTS BLK FT% 3P%
Derrick Favors___12.4 2.1 0.63 0
Derrick Williams 19.5 0.7 0.75 0.57

There is an issue with the amount of PT he got this last year in college, but he was HIGHLY productive when he did play (if his season stats would have been the product of full season, it would have been the best statistical season by a freshman PG...ever;

This is first time I have ever heard of a College team completely changing their offense to leverage the skills of an incoming freshman point guard. I am glad that Erudite said that Kyrie is on par with DWill and CP3, or better at this stage.

Favors has a legitimate chance to become a dominant defensive force in the paint.

This is unquestionable. The question is though, will Favors transform into a dominant scorer too.

[jazzfan1971]

Of course, Irving's numbers might have been solely due to stastical variance due to a small sample size. If he'd have played a full season it's rather likely his numbers would have dropped, not stayed the same.

I didn't think his measurements/scores in the combine were that impressive either.

I'd love if he fell to #3, but, I have a great deal of difficulty considering him a top 5 pg in the league in the next 3 years.

[jazzfan1971]

I have very little difficulty imagining Favors as a top5 PF in the league in the next 3 years. I don't even struggle to think top 2.

[erudite23]

Naturally. That's because he neither had any big moments in the NCAAs and he isn't an unbelievable athlete. But the best PGs in the history of the league haven't been insane athletes. Stockton, Nash, CP3, Deron, GP, Kidd were all just average-to-good physical specimens who had special qualities that weren't measurable. Kyrie seems to be that type, and he's at least as good physically as any of those guys were. He has some bounce and quite a bit of quickness, and he is already a terrific shooter.

Its gotten to the point where if you don't wow people with your speed and explosiveness then you can't be considered an elite PG talent. I think Kyrie is better than any of the guys that have come out because of his basketball skills (along with solid physical gifts). The difference is that he didn't get to show them off on the big stage because of his injury. But he is a special, special player.

[finnegan]

One could certainly argue that Kyrie's statistics are inflated, because of the few number of games that he actually played. The oppostie could be said too.

For the truth, just go with personal experience. The game of basketball requires:

1) substantial conditioning, and
2) chemistry between teamates in terms of being able to anticipate their moves, and
3) techical skills

Is a person at an advantage or disadvantage when they miss the first 2/3rds of the season and have to come in and play against:

1) opponents who are in top condition, and
2) with a group of essential strangers in terms of real game time situations,
3) with your skills a slightly diminished due to lack of play.

Seems intuititive to me. But maybe I am missing something.