2011 NBA Draft Thread II (New Poll & Mock Draft Results)

[2010]

TW, I am absolutely advocating Shumpert at PG with Selby at SG. They compliment eachother perfectly. As for your analysis of Shumpert, what you are forgetting is that you are going off his statistics in a college setting. The NBA game is much more wide open, less zone defenses and conducive to isos. The pure physicality of this guy is enough to make him a better pro than he was as a collegiate player. Then add to boot great athleticism and he will be able to make a living in the paint, on the break and as a big/strong perimeter defender. He doesn't have to be a great shooter. That is what Selby is for. Also the amount of attention Amar'e and Melo demand will open up the floor for Shumpert/Selby. Ramon Sessions is smaller, less athletic, and a bad shooter as well and he makes a nice living for himself by being able to get into the paint. You are underselling Shumpert.

[TrueWarrior]

I don't think Shumpert is as bad an offensive player as you make him out to be. He has form on his jumper unlike Terrence Williams.

Form doesnt mean much tho. I actually think TWill has solid form. Same with Iggy and all these other guys. Its a good sign but some players just cant shoot no matter what. Shumpert hasnt improved his shot at all in 3 years with that form of his. In fact its gotten worse. I remember watching GTech to see Favors and kept thinkin who this tool for a PG was not passing him the ball, and taking the most redic shots Ive ever seen . Well thats Shumpert in a box. I wonder how many of you have seen him play.

Im down with Selby, but if we're getting another pick Id rather take a chance on a big like Tyler/Lucas/Harper/JuJuan/Willie Reed/Greg Smith.

[2010]

I like Selby as our pick too but Lance Stephenson was also a highly rated high school prospect (#8 overall on scout.com)

Something like Selby/Brooks/Tyler would be a great draft though (would be hard to swing another first rounder but the second for Tyler should be doable if he's there).

Stephenson was fat, slow, unathletic and with a bad attitude. He just benefitted from the Lincoln hype machine and he was bigger than all the other PSAL guards. He was also a bully. I knew Stephensen was overrated.

[can o peas]

I like Selby as our pick too but Lance Stephenson was also a highly rated high school prospect (#8 overall on scout.com)

Something like Selby/Brooks/Tyler would be a great draft though (would be hard to swing another first rounder but the second for Tyler should be doable if he's there).

Stephenson was fat, slow, unathletic and with a bad attitude. He just benefitted from the Lincoln hype machine and he was bigger than all the other PSAL guards. He was also a bully. I knew Stephensen was overrated.

our own Bill Walker was also a highly rated high school prospect by the way (#7 in 2007). he did have some injuries though.

for the most part though, I do believe high school rankings are a factor- these guys get scouted from a very early age.

[TrueWarrior]

TW, I am absolutely advocating Shumpert at PG with Selby at SG. They compliment eachother perfectly. As for your analysis of Shumpert, what you are forgetting is that you are going off his statistics in a college setting. The NBA game is much more wide open, less zone defenses and conducive to isos. The pure physicality of this guy is enough to make him a better pro than he was as a collegiate player. Then add to boot great athleticism and he will be able to make a living in the paint, on the break and as a big/strong perimeter defender. He doesn't have to be a great shooter. That is what Selby is for. Also the amount of attention Amar'e and Melo demand will open up the floor for Shumpert/Selby. Ramon Sessions is smaller, less athletic, and a bad shooter as well and he makes a nice living for himself by being able to get into the paint. You are underselling Shumpert.

I see where you're coming from, but the thought of Shumpert being our PG and having the ball so much scares me a little. All he is is an athlete right now. Hes really stupid. Hes not Sessions. Sessions is a pretty smart player. I just dont know how you expect him to co-exist with Melo, Amare, and Selby. Hes not a PG. Hes a SG who cant shoot and can penetrate a little. Like I said hes a poor mans Terrence Williams. Hed just be a defender out of the gate, and anything else is gravy to me.

Hahn: "What seems evident is the Knicks plan to buy a 2nd Rnd pick or two and add a few bodies. Spending a lot of time looking at 2nd Rd prospects."

Maybe Shumpert is in that group.

My 2nd round targets:

Tyler
Shumpert
Vucevic
Lucas
Jenkins
Darius
Lee
JuJuan
Harper
Lighty
Willie Reed
Leslie
Greg Smith
Benson
Liggins
Rick Jackson

Those are the obvious ones. But knowing the Knicks (Rautins/Fields) we'll pick some guys out of left Fields.

[ManiaX]

I'm not a fan of Shumpert at all.

If I was too find a compliment wing to play with Selby it would be Malcolm Lee.

Similar to the previous UCLA guards, Lee's game will flourish once he gets to the NBA. He won't have the same success like Holiday or Westbrook, but I can see him being like Aaron Affalo but with the ability to play some PG.

Compared to Shumpert, Lee is just as tall and has a similar wingspan. While he may not be as strong or as athletic, he is still a very good athlete. Lee also has the better bball IQ and is a strong defender on the ball as well as a team defender too.

[2010]

I'm not a fan of Shumpert at all.

If I was too find a compliment wing to play with Selby it would be Malcolm Lee.

Similar to the previous UCLA guards, Lee's game will flourish once he gets to the NBA. He won't have the same success like Holiday or Westbrook, but I can see him being like Aaron Affalo but with the ability to play some PG.

Compared to Shumpert, Lee is just as tall and has a similar wingspan. While he may not be as strong or as athletic, he is still a very good athlete. Lee also has the better bball IQ and is a strong defender on the ball as well as a team defender too.

Malcolm Lee doesn't have the upside of a Shumpert. Lee is a safe pick. For 2011 in a weak draft class we need to be picking players who have the most upside and not looking for role player, best fit types. Even if a guy isn't of the highest IQ or doesn't play off the ball as well, we need to take the best TALENT to use as trade bait in hopes of making a play for Chris Paul. The picks we select should be seen as assets. We need talented bodies on our roster. We are not merely 1 piece away, with the luxury of drafting for specific need/fit like the Bulls.

[Fury]

Man, if we get Selby and Shumpert, we can swarm on defense.

[ManiaX]

I'm not a fan of Shumpert at all.

If I was too find a compliment wing to play with Selby it would be Malcolm Lee.

Similar to the previous UCLA guards, Lee's game will flourish once he gets to the NBA. He won't have the same success like Holiday or Westbrook, but I can see him being like Aaron Affalo but with the ability to play some PG.

Compared to Shumpert, Lee is just as tall and has a similar wingspan. While he may not be as strong or as athletic, he is still a very good athlete. Lee also has the better bball IQ and is a strong defender on the ball as well as a team defender too.

Malcolm Lee doesn't have the upside of a Shumpert. Lee is a safe pick. For 2011 in a weak draft class we need to be picking players who have the most upside and not looking for role player, best fit types. Even if a guy isn't of the highest IQ or doesn't play off the ball as well, we need to take the best TALENT to use as trade bait in hopes of making a play for Chris Paul. The picks we select should be seen as assets. We need talented bodies on our roster. We are not merely 1 piece away, with the luxury of drafting for specific need/fit like the Bulls.

What are upside are you talking about? They are both the same age first of all. As far as talent goes, I would say Lee is far more skilled and talented as well.

If you mean by upside, who is more likely to win a dunk contest? Than yes, Shumpert has more upside. Other than that, not really.

This is a WEAK draft, pretty much everyone outside the lottery with the exception of Selby, who is considered a huge gamble, would be lucky to make it as a role player in the NBA.

[next2spike]

Get me Selby, Brooks from Providence, or Bismack (my #1 choice, but a reach). Second round, get a couple of blue-collar big men.

No Klay, no to that European guy that has been linked to us.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Klay was the 6th ranked SG in 2008 by Rivals. 51st overall. Markieff was ranked 49th overall in 2008. Reggie Jackson was ranked 115th overall in 2008, and as a SG 29th (its widely known he wasnt a top recruit though). I cant even find Jimmer, Brooks, or Faried in 2007. They obviously werent highly recruited, which I think is well known too.

I hate to use HIgh School Rankings but Selby is just on a whole nother level than all these guys. Maybe Im going nuts but what if this dude is the next big thing and everyone is hardcore sleeping on him? Selby is in elite company in those rankings. 3/4 of the those guys are legit top 10 picks. Just something to think about.

Anyone else besides Revolver and myself, fans of a potential Selby/Shumpert backcourt pairing?

It would definitely be athletic and solid defensively, but pretty bad offensively. Shumpert wouldnt give us anything Selby wouldnt on offense, except he cant play off the ball or shoot. How would he fit in? Are you playing Shumpert at PG and Selby at SG?

Shumpert is a target in the 2nd round for me, but nothing higher. Hes a terrible offensive player. Dude barely passed even when he had Favors and Lawai. Career 39% shooter, 31% from three. He easily has the worst shot selection/basketball IQ in the draft to me. I look at him as a worse current Terrence Williams.

Eh, I'm still not completely buying all this HS hype. What if it just wasn't a great HS class? I just like to see some signs of greatness at a higher level.

I remember a lot of people wanted to draft Andre Blatche (top 5 HS player) and were mad when we drafted Lee over him. Lee was the "safe" pick w/ Blatche the high risk/high reward.

There have just been countless highly touted HS players that arent starters.. Gerald Green and Mullins. Livingston, Paulus, Dee Brown, Anthony Roberson was a top 5 HS pg. Telfair....Felipe Lopez was supposed to be the next Jordan.

I'm still ok with drafting Selby. He's just a big risk and won't contribute right away. And it worries me when he struggled a lot in college.

Overall, he's converting just 39% of his 2-point attempts, which would be the lowest percentage of any player drafted in the last ten years, if he indeed decided to enter. Combine that with his paltry 37 free throw attempts in 22 games, and it's no surprise why Selby ranks as the least efficient scorer amongst players in our top-100 prospects ranking.

Quite clearly a shooting guard and not even a combo guard at 6'2, Selby shows very little in terms of point guard abilities, almost always looking for his own shot except for rare spurts where he'll try and set up others off pick-and-rolls.

Lets be real. If your struggling this much in college, you might not be ready to play in the NBA. Especially when D'Antoni is the coach and we are trying to win games now.

But hey, he probably has the most upside.....

[StephNYKurry]

I'm telling you guys, the only guy who surpasses Selby in terms of potential is Motiejunas. I would take Jimmer ahead of Selby because I think Jimmer is a sure thing to be at the bare minimum a legit "JT" type scorer off of the bench.

But Selby can be a star in this league, if he reaches what I think he has the possibility to reach...we might could Selby and someone else for CP3 and not budge off of that.

[ManiaX]

Lets be real. If your struggling this much in college, you might not be ready to play in the NBA. Especially when D'Antoni is the coach and we are trying to win games now.

But hey, he probably has the most upside.....

That is why drafting Selby is a huge gamble.

If he didn't struggle, do you really think he would still be available at #17? If he came straight out of HS, in a much a stronger draft last year, Selby is most likely a top 10 lottery pick.

As far as his shooting percentages go, his percentages dropped drastically after he got injured.

[2010]

What are upside are you talking about? They are both the same age first of all. As far as talent goes, I would say Lee is far more skilled and talented as well.

If you mean by upside, who is more likely to win a dunk contest? Than yes, Shumpert has more upside. Other than that, not really.

This is a WEAK draft, pretty much everyone outside the lottery with the exception of Selby, who is considered a huge gamble, would be lucky to make it as a role player in the NBA.

Who of the two do you think has the higher ability to finish in traffic?
Who of the two do you think is more explosive in ability to beat their man off the dribble?
Who of the two do you consider to have the more durable body?
Who of the two do you consider as the better man-to-man perimeter defender?
Who is the stronger of the two, ready to step in and play against NBA veterans?
Who has the ability to get th the FT line more?
Who tested better in almost every single facet at the combine?

Neither of them are elite shooters or pure pg's with elite passing so what are these skills that you rate ML as head and shoulders better than IS at?

[taj2133]

Sixers are taking montijunas if he is still there and i heard jazz might trade down for kemba.

[magnumt]

2010, it's your birthday: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1115674

Oh and: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1117593

--Mags

[cammlm]

I really hope we take Selby. He can score the ball and will make other teams pay if they double Stat and Melo. He can battle the likes of a Rondo and other young guards in the division. We can get hungry rebounders later. I would hate to see him on another team when we should have the chance to get him at 17. We need a pt as well, but there are many guys out there who can play 15 minutes a game to back up Billups. I love Chris Wright from Gtown and he probably won't be drafted.

[taj2133]

What are we going do with 2 combo guards if we draft selby we all know toney douglas trade value isn't that high. We all know neither can point guard full time there both undersize 2 guards of your bench doesn't work.

[SonOfMars]

What are we going do with 2 combo guards if we draft selby we all know toney douglas trade value isn't that high. We all know neither can point guard full time there both undersize 2 guards of your bench doesn't work.

Selby is better than Douglas, imo, especially when he gets 2 seasons under his belt, but Selbys potential is sky-high, regardless of need...i dont think you reject that kind of upside

Hmm, you've seem to have been shooting down alot of candidates, who are you rooting for?

[ManiaX]

What are upside are you talking about? They are both the same age first of all. As far as talent goes, I would say Lee is far more skilled and talented as well.

If you mean by upside, who is more likely to win a dunk contest? Than yes, Shumpert has more upside. Other than that, not really.

This is a WEAK draft, pretty much everyone outside the lottery with the exception of Selby, who is considered a huge gamble, would be lucky to make it as a role player in the NBA.

Who of the two do you think has the higher ability to finish in traffic? Lee since he shot a better % inside.
Who of the two do you think is more explosive in ability to beat their man off the dribble? Shumpert is more "explosive", but i would say Lee is better ball handler and more adept at taking his man off the dribble.
Who of the two do you consider to have the more durable body? Equal since neither of them have suffered any big injuries.
Who of the two do you consider as the better man-to-man perimeter defender? Shumpert has the slight advantage but Lee is also one of the better defenders in the draft as well.
Who is the stronger of the two, ready to step in and play against NBA veterans? Shumpert is stronger like I said before. Lee is more NBA ready.
Who has the ability to get th the FT line more? Well Shumpert and both Lee have the tendency to pull up off the dribble instead of taking it all the way like Jamal Crawford, only difference is that Lee is more likely to make the shot.
Who tested better in almost every single facet at the combine? Shumpert but Lee tested out above average, and thankfully the draft isn't based on just the combine.

Neither of them are elite shooters or pure pg's with elite passing so what are these skills that you rate ML as head and shoulders better than IS at?

If Lee played in the same system as Shumpert and got to handle the ball as much, he would be rated as a much higher prospect.