Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

[nate33]

FWIW, I no longer want either one of these guys at #6. If we trade down to 12 or so, I think I'd take Leonard ahead of Singleton.

As of now, at #6, I'd take whoever is left among Kanter, Valanciunas or Walker, in that order. If we draft Walker, I'd try and trade him immediately for a later pick plus incentive.

[REDardWIZskin]

^^ agreed except I would really be hoping for Charlotte's 9 and 19 if they fall in love with Kemba... Their front office has already expressed the desire for a player that can have a JJ Barea type of impact... i.e. Kemba

[tontoz]

Atleast Leonard can defend and has offensive potential. Could our team use a player like Trevor Ariza in our rebuild? I think so. Their predraft measurements and combine results are almost identical. I'm fine with Singleton or Leonard I'd just be prefer if we could pick them up later while getting and additional pick. I don't know what you talking about Wiz D as far as Leonard being as stiff as a board that is way off. He shows fluid movement on cuts and can use both hands around the basket. He also suffered from bad guard play

He has been bad across the board offensively in college. Even with his long arms he struggled to finish inside. From the outside he shot 20% from 3 as a freshman, 29% as a soph. That is not the type of wing player that fits well next to Wall.

Putting a guy at the 3 who struggles from the perimeter doesn't make sense when you consider that Wall also struggles from the perimeter. The horrible spacing on this team makes it that much tougher for Wall to be effective.

Picking him up in the 2nd round, where Ariza was picked, would be fine. But not at 6. Ariza was drafted in 2004 and has already been on 6 different teams. It isn't like he has been a vital cog anywhere.

[mohammed10]

Leonard is weak, cant jump and was one of the most inefficient scorers in the draft.

It is like deciding between drinking castor oil or eating dirt. Both are nasty.

But in all seriousness, I would rather have Leonard than some of the even more unproven Euros out there...

[fishercob]

FWIW, I no longer want either one of these guys at #6. If we trade down to 12 or so, I think I'd take Leonard ahead of Singleton.

As of now, at #6, I'd take whoever is left among Kanter, Valanciunas or Walker, in that order. If we draft Walker, I'd try and trade him immediately for a later pick plus incentive.

I think I basically agree with this. I wouldn't take to the streets with a torch and a pitchfork if we picked one of those two guys at 6, but I'd probably be disappointed.

By the way, our front office is doing a pretty good job with mis-information. We're reported to really like Vesely and Leonard, be aggressively in the mix to get up to #2 (presumably to take Williams). I wouldn't be surprised if within a week or two we hear that we're now in love with Kanter or JV or that we're now intent on trading our pick to the highest bidder.

Thing is, by now the FO likely knows exactly what it wants to do and has several plans in place in the event of multiple contingencies.

[mohammed10]

I think I basically agree with this. I wouldn't take to the streets with a torch and a pitchfork if we picked one of those two guys at 6, but I'd probably be disappointed.

By the way, our front office is doing a pretty good job with mis-information. We're reported to really like Vesely and Leonard, be aggressively in the mix to get up to #2 (presumably to take Williams). I wouldn't be surprised if within a week or two we hear that we're now in love with Kanter or JV or that we're now intent on trading our pick to the highest bidder.

Thing is, by now the FO likely knows exactly what it wants to do and has several plans in place in the event of multiple contingencies.

I hope you're right, fish...I hope you're right.

BTW - love the torch and pitchfork comment

[WizarDynasty]

watching leonard in the open court dribbling the ball full speed, he looks very clumsy and shows a very weak handle. Watching his jumpshots, he looks very stiff and doesn't have the coordination to alter his shot with a hand in his face. He also doesn't show alot of coordination when he is in the air.

There is a significant difference in strength between singleton and leonard. Singleton is 10 times better match up with lebron, carmelo, paul pierce, joe johnson due to his strength. He also creates spacing because he has a fluid three point shot and singleton also gevts alot of height on his three point shot. Leonard barely gets off the ground shooting his shot which makes it alot easier to guard.
Singleton, although stiff shows alot more toughness than leonard and has the body type to mix up. Leonard is probably better guard finese small forwards like a Kevin Durant but will easily get over powered by lebron, carmelo, johnson, pierce, stephen jackson. Also singleton already has a reputation as a lockdown defender and will be able to get away with alot more physical contact because of his reputation than the avereage s/f.

Leonard is probably better s/f for other teams, but for the wizards singleton is the better prospect. we lack toughness at s/f spot and rashard knee issues aren' going away. Singleton fills a huge void that we have been searching for with the booker pick from last year. Singleton is what we wished booker was.

[dobrojim]

one would hope so

[LyricalRico]

There is a significant difference in strength between singleton and leonard. Singleton is 10 times better match up with lebron, carmelo, paul pierce, joe johnson due to his strength.

This is an interesting point. Miami will be the team to beat in the East for the next 5 years, and LeBron is their best overall player. Having a guy that can match up with him is going to be crucial. If Singleton would be a better matchup and can also be had later in the lottery, that might be a good look.

Question is, if he ends up being our guy do we move down from 6 or up from 18 to get him?

[REDardWIZskin]

Atleast Leonard can defend and has offensive potential. Could our team use a player like Trevor Ariza in our rebuild? I think so. Their predraft measurements and combine results are almost identical. I'm fine with Singleton or Leonard I'd just be prefer if we could pick them up later while getting and additional pick. I don't know what you talking about Wiz D as far as Leonard being as stiff as a board that is way off. He shows fluid movement on cuts and can use both hands around the basket. He also suffered from bad guard play

He has been bad across the board offensively in college. Even with his long arms he struggled to finish inside. From the outside he shot 20% from 3 as a freshman, 29% as a soph. That is not the type of wing player that fits well next to Wall.

Putting a guy at the 3 who struggles from the perimeter doesn't make sense when you consider that Wall also struggles from the perimeter. The horrible spacing on this team makes it that much tougher for Wall to be effective.

Picking him up in the 2nd round, where Ariza was picked, would be fine. But not at 6. Ariza was drafted in 2004 and has already been on 6 different teams. It isn't like he has been a vital cog anywhere.

Did you even read my post? Where did I say anything about wanting him at six or that he was an ideal offensive player next to wall. My case for him was based on rebounding, defense and that he would be taken at a later pick with an added incentive coming back through a trade. That way we would be able to add offense as well.

[dobrojim]

^ Both

if he really can be a LeTrav stopper we should draft him twice!

[nate33]

By the way, our front office is doing a pretty good job with mis-information. We're reported to really like Vesely and Leonard, be aggressively in the mix to get up to #2 (presumably to take Williams). I wouldn't be surprised if within a week or two we hear that we're now in love with Kanter or JV or that we're now intent on trading our pick to the highest bidder.

Thing is, by now the FO likely knows exactly what it wants to do and has several plans in place in the event of multiple contingencies.

Yup, the Minister of Propaganda is in full disinformation mode. Frankly, the best guess is that the Wizards secretly like Valanciunas. He's the one guy we've heard nothing about. (To be fair, we haven't said much about Kanter either. The only reason why he's been mentioned as a possibility is the Wall/Kentucky connection.)

[REDardWIZskin]

Give up the premise that there will be one player that can "Stop" arguably the best player in the world. If the best defenders in the league cannot do it then why would a soon to be drafted rookie be able to do it. Its best to build a defensive team atmosphere which obviously requires defensive minded players but drafting a guy on the principle that he will "Stop" a guy on a team that you play 4 times and year and happens to be arguably the best in the league is a reach.

[tontoz]

Did you even read my post? Where did I say anything about wanting him at six or that he was an ideal offensive player next to wall. My case for him was based on rebounding, defense and that he would be taken at a later pick with an added incentive coming back through a trade. That way we would be able to add offense as well.

I did read your post and this line

I'm fine with Singleton or Leonard I'd just be prefer if we could pick them up later while getting and additional pick

means to me that you would be okay with them at 6 but would prefer to trade down and take then in the 9-10 range while picking up an additional pick. If that is not what you meant then please explain what you were trying to say when you said

I'm fine with Singleton or Leonard

[rockymac52]

I don't know but I've never thought about our future in terms of competing with the Heat, I've just been focused on becoming a "good" team and dealing with matching up with the other elite teams afterwards. But now that you mention it, I think we need to be thinking about Miami when we rebuild. No, there's no secret player out there who is the magical LeBron stopper. Even if there was, there's still Wade and Bosh, obviously. But there are players that matchup well with them and can help us out.

If we build a team that can compete/beat Miami, it'll be a great team overall and will be able to beat the other elite teams as well, obviously. So why not think ahead of time and start compiling the role players we might need to beat Miami in a few years when we're hopefully a good team as well.

Not that this strategy is necessarily any different than what we've already been doing. For the most part we want to acquire the most talented players possible, and that's what I think we'll keep doing, simply put.

But with the 6th pick, if there aren't any options who are going to be big time players available, which looks like an absolute certainty right now, then let's be honest to ourselves about that. Let's not draft a guy because we think he has the highest ceiling and the best chance to end up being an allstar one day. Let's be patient and safe and draft a guy who we feel can be a role player and contributor down the line. That's why I think we should trade down, or into next year's draft (but I feel like this isn't going to be possible this year). Even if we draft a guy we see as a role player down the line with the 6th pick, the mere fact that he was drafted 6th overall and this team has so few talented players is going to give everyone the perception that he's a big part of our future, and I think such a mindset could really hurt his development. We don't need someone thinking they're destined to be a star and then be disgruntled and frustrated when in 3-5 years he's coming off the bench. Let's try to be realistic with ourselves and allow that player we draft to be realistic with himself. The guy we take at 6 this year could very well have been available at the Seraphin pick last year, or maybe even the Crawford pick. Just because he has a 6 attached to his biography for the rest of his life doesn't make him any better than those guys for the future. Hopefully whoever we draft at 6 understands his place in our franchise's future from day one.... a role player.

[REDardWIZskin]

Tontoz you chopped me entire post up and chose to address what parts you thought fit your counterpoints. Great strategy... you must watch Fox news a lot... I've stated several times in each draft thread that I would like to trade back and get KL, CS, or BB I'm not going to go back and forth with you, the facts are that in a weak draft you have to at least come away with assets and KL and CS both bring defense and work ethic something we both would agree this team needs. If you have a better option of who to pick then I'll gladly listen but don't twist my point to make you argument sound more viable.

[tontoz]

Tontoz you chopped me entire post up and chose to address what parts you thought fit your counterpoints. Great strategy... you must watch Fox news a lot... I've stated several times in each draft thread that I would like to trade back and get KL, CS, or BB I'm not going to go back and forth with you, the facts are that in a weak draft you have to at least come away with assets and KL and CS both bring defense and work ethic something we both would agree this team needs. If you have a better option of who to pick then I'll gladly listen but don't twist my point to make you argument sound more viable.

I quoted you directly because you asked what made me think you were ok with them at 6. That quote is what made me think that. If you said "i would be ok with taking them if we trade down but not at 6" then obviously i would have known what you meant.

So can i take this to mean that you don't want to draft either of them at 6? I really don't know what your stance is at 6.

As to the trade down strategy i do not agree with that either. We have a bunch of young players on this team already and we have two first rounders this year. I think the best bet is to stay at 6 and take whoever is highest on their board.

[LyricalRico]

Frankly, the best guess is that the Wizards secretly like Valanciunas. He's the one guy we've heard nothing about.

That's almost worst-case IMO. Not because I don't think the guy has upside, but becuase he's the only guy where there is absolutely zero chance of him being able to play alongside McGee (I have doubts about Kanter being able to play with McGee, but at least there's a chance). So you are adding yet another young center to a roster that already includes McGee and Seraphin.

Hey, if they think he can be better than McGee and they will then trade JaVale, I have no problem with that. But to take a center so high and also keep McGee (which I assume is what most would want in that scenario0 is a bad idea IMO.

[queridiculo]

Personally, I've already divorced myself from the idea that we'll find a difference maker at No. 6, and as such, I'd have no problem drafting a player whose ultimate upside is solid starter or added depth on a roster that's severely lacking in that department.

The theme of this draft imho has to be culture change. We have too many knuckleheads and jokesters, and not enough workers and no-nonsense type characters on this squad.

First and foremost I want guys on this team that care more about winning and improving then looking cool on Sportscenter highlights and winning at Twitter followers.

Wall obviously sets the tone, but you have to surround him with guys that care just as much.

I'm not going to pretend to really know any players in the draft well, but from I've seen I like Vucevic, Singleton, Leonard, Brooks, Burks and Faried, and if we can parlay the 6th into three of those guys I'd be ecstatic.

What's really going to kill it for me is if EG drafts on potential over production again. A big no to any of the Euro prospects outside of Kanter for precisely that reason.

[7-Day Dray]

found this interesting...

Two teams actively trying to trade down are the Utah Jazz and Cleveland Cavaliers, according to sources. The Cavs have been telling agents they are actively trying to acquire a draft pick in the 10-19 range, which is why certain player with no chance of being picked in the top four are coming to Cleveland for workouts. The No. 1 and No. 4 picks are the Cavs' only first round picks. This would certainly be an option if they believe Derrick Williams and Enes Kanter will both be gone in the top three picks. The Jazz are exploring every option, especially trading down from the No. 3 pick.

http://www.thehoopsreport.com/article.aspx?id=741

I also found this interesting as well. could they possibly targeting Marcus Morris??

John Lull - Sports Talk Personality of Cleveland Cavs & Indians tweeted this:

LullonSports Joe Lull @
@BrendanLeister @kirklob I believe they have serious reservations whether or not Kanter is a true center & his ability to play immediately
16 hours ago

LullonSports Joe Lull @
@BrendanLeister @kirklob I think a small trade down from 4 w/ Marcus as Cavs ultimate target is distinct possibility.
16 hours ago

LullonSports Joe Lull @
@KirkLOB @brendanleister prior to draft Cavs will know which players coveted by teams behind them. A likely coveted player will be there @ 4
16 hours ago

LullonSports Joe Lull @
@KirkLOB @brendanleister IF Cavs were to target Marcus, which I believe is possible, they could do so via a prearranged trade...
16 hours ago

LullonSports Joe Lull @
@KirkLOB @brendanleister odd that Marcus would be working out against Kanter & Thompson. Marcus viewed as a 3. Could actually be Markieff
16 hours ago

I hope we trade up with one of these teams and grab Kanter.