Official Andre Iguodala Trade Discussion and Rumors Thread

[P2K]

Knowing that the forum has no search function (limited to searching your own most recent posts), that's a terrible comeback, boy.

It's not a terrible comeback at all. You put words in my mouth. I call you out on it and you cannot produce evidence because it never was said. Which makes your words less credible.

Why are you calling me "boy"? I'm kinda curious about that because...hmm.

He has hard time getting to the basket partly because we have no one opening up the space. Not just him, other players on our team have a tough time as well.

It has nothing to do with space. Jrue doesn't have as hard a time finishing as Iguodala. That's why I think Jrue should be the go-to guy. He makes it look easy getting to the bucket and finishing. His problem right now is creating contact to draw fouls.

Where were they in the Team US during the World Basketball championship run? Oh I forgot, they aren't even picked to the team. (Thabo of course, can't, since he is Swiss).

Jrue wasn't picked to the team. Does that make him a scrub, too?

Really means you, P2K, is clueless.

My feelings are hurt.

Funny you say that, because that sentence just about sums up most of your posts around here.

The continuation of nothingness because you ran out of thought.

hahaha, you are the one who keeps throwing around far-fetched analogies trying to win an argument. Don't fool yourself into thinking you are something that you aren't.

More of you not staying civil and debating, instead continuing your barrage of trash talk.

Funny you say that, because you are realistic to the point you rarely give any credit to what they are doing well, i.e. playing good team basketball.

1.) They have a hard time reaching 40 wins. How much positive can you put out there?

2.) Why the hell do you care so much about how much I cheer or criticize my team?

Atlanta played a dysfunctional Orlando Magic while we faced Miami Heat. I don't see how they are that much better than us.

Because Atlanta keeps reaching the second round and the Sixers don't.

They were. Jury is still out on John Wall, and Irving isn't making that much of a buzz.

But they were talked about before the draft like those players you mentioned. That's all I need to know.

More so if the Eddie Jordan era-like seasons continue.

Eddie Jordan has nothing to do with this. They drew at the gate just like they did when Mo Cheeks was the coach.

Austin Rivers, Perry Jones, Jared Sullinger, Harrison Barnes, just to name a few. You got to keep up, boy.

And you can guarantee that all four of these players will be stars?

Are you from the South or something? This "boy" thing reeks of it.

More so than your so-called plan of "rebuilding" by blindly plunging yourself into the draft and hope you find something stick.

Tell that to OKC, Boston, Chicago and all the other teams that are great in this league because they got started by drafting a superstar.

How do you justify something that worked by luck to be a blueprint for other teams? That's another fail in your logic.

It's all luck, huh? They positioned themselves to make those moves. They created their own luck.

Once again, you didn't prove anything? I am saying a weak draft it doesn't really matter where you pick because majority of the players you are getting are unlikely to be the guy you want to change your franchise with. Whether its at the 5 or the 17th.

Quite a hard concept for you to work your little mind around. But it will come in time.

And I'm telling you that only the Ed Stefanskis of the world would think the value of a top 5 pick would equate to the value of the 17th pick.

[P2K]

Plus, it seems like defense is not valued by the causal fan these days. Maybe Monta's high scoring average, if not done inefficiently, will get some fans to the door?

Defense was valued by casual fans from 1999 to 2002.

[76ciology]

It's not because he isn't worth the contract, the issue here is if it's necessary of pay a jack of all trades, master of none (role player as some would call) type of player that much. He's not overpaid because of his worth. It's more of an issue of proper allocation of the team's salary budget.

It's amazing how both points you made, you immediately contradicted yourself.

The issue isn't whether Iguodala's overpaid, or whether he's worth that kind of contract. The question isn't whether an Iguodala level player is worth that contract, nor is the question whether an Iguodala type player is worth that contract (or however else you can phrase it to say the exact same thing). The question is whether he's worth that kind of contract on this team.

Iguodala would unquestionably be worth his contract on the Mavs or the Thunder, teams who are legitimately a piece away and on he'd fit perfectly in with the teams established star, and where he'd be the teams 3rd or 4th highest paid player (a la Lakers, Mavs, Spurs, etc).

If you already have a star you're building around, then you go and give (or trade for) Iguodala his contract, and you don't worry about it at all. When you're trying to obtain that star ? That's when the flexibility hurts and it becomes a legitimate question.

It's not about Iguodala's value or the type of player he is (which is just another way of debating his value). It's about your team and its level of development.

What I meant was..

He's worth the contract. But do you really need to pay that much for a facilitator/defensive player?

You mentioned Lakers, Mavs and Spurs.
- Lamar Odom gets it done (and arguably better), playing the Iggy role with a -3M$ contract. (no complains from Lakers)
- Marion and Butler gets the job done, playing the Iggy role with less money. (no complains from Mavs)
- Manu Ginobili gets the job done, playing the Iggy role with less money. (no complains from Spurs)

Great teams is smart in allocating their team's salary. If they want a player like Iguodala, they can also settle for a much cheaper alternative like Ariza, Bruce Bowen, Posey, Tony Allen, Battier, Artest, or Sefalosha. Yes, they might not be as talented as Iguodala but they get the job done. The truth is you really don't need that much money and that much talent to play the facilitator/defensive player role to win a championship. These teams would think "why not just add the extra two million saving I made from the other contracts (probably not signing theo ratliff and Joe Smith or James Anderson and DeJuan Blair or Brian Cardinal and Tim Thomas) and sign D-Wade, Gay, Bynum, or Pierce?"

These teams are smart. And they know that an expensive door won't feed their family.

Just my two cents.

[PhillyFan]

It's not a terrible comeback at all. You put words in my mouth. I call you out on it and you cannot produce evidence because it never was said. Which makes your words less credible.

Why are you calling me "boy"? I'm kinda curious about that because...hmm.

hahaah, I just gave you the reason the forum limits my ability to go back to previous posts. You are not credible. You are just riding on the fact that it is not possible to search things you've posted except the most recent.

You are boy because you've been displaying the intellect of a 4 year old and I call it out as it fits. Simple as that.

It has nothing to do with space. Jrue doesn't have as hard a time finishing as Iguodala. That's why I think Jrue should be the go-to guy. He makes it look easy getting to the bucket and finishing. His problem right now is creating contact to draw fouls.

Can't argue against the fact Jrue would have an even easier time if we have shooters lining up. Him and Meeks are the only capable shooters on this team.

Jrue wasn't picked to the team. Does that make him a scrub, too?

Jrue hasn't been in the league as long as those role players have.

My feelings are hurt.

Don't worry, SJSF loves you.

The continuation of nothingness because you ran out of thought.

More of you not staying civil and debating, instead continuing your barrage of trash talk.

I call it out as it is. There's no need to be civil with you.

1.) They have a hard time reaching 40 wins. How much positive can you put out there?

2.) Why the hell do you care so much about how much I cheer or criticize my team?

I don't really care. You are the one who started quoting me in this thread.

Because Atlanta keeps reaching the second round and the Sixers don't.

We have faced Orlando Magic/Miami Heat, both eventually got to NBA finals. Kind of a lope-sided argument there to proclaim the Hawks is the better team.

But they were talked about before the draft like those players you mentioned. That's all I need to know.

Talk =/= tanking for them. Not in the case or Irving. John Wall you can make an argument there.

Eddie Jordan has nothing to do with this. They drew at the gate just like they did when Mo Cheeks was the coach.

Eddie Jordan is the prime example of a terrible coach. You can't have Collins here and still expect us to tank. Collins wouldn't allow it.

And you can guarantee that all four of these players will be stars?

Are you from the South or something? This "boy" thing reeks of it.

I'd have more faith in them than the players in this upcoming draft. Back to my point that not every year's draft is equal. It's quite a difficult concept to grasp for you really.

Tell that to OKC, Boston, Chicago and all the other teams that are great in this league because they got started by drafting a superstar.

I am calling out on your ridiculous example of Boston getting their big 3 by trading away their entire roster. That you can't defend.

It's all luck, huh? They positioned themselves to make those moves. They created their own luck.

Thanks Captain Hindsight.

You can say they positioned themselves long ago and forsee themselves becoming the success. I call it luck and say that Danny Ainge made a desperation attempt because nothing else was working for him.

And I'm telling you that only the Ed Stefanskis of the world would think the value of a top 5 pick would equate to the value of the 17th pick.

Value is relative. You still don't get it.

[KrazySixersD]

let me throw this out there... what if we did this series of trades.. now i have not taking into consider length of contract and amounts on the bulls trade... so here goes... i dont like turner as a starter at SF.. but what if we used him as a super sub, playing minutes off the bench at PG, SG, and SF.. this is how it would look... lou and nocioni for ronnie brewer and kyle korver.. and speights for robin lopez, and ellis for iguodala

Jrue(37mpg)/turner(11mpg)
ellis(37mpg)/turner(11mpg)/meeks
Ronnie brewer(24mpg)/turner(12mpg)/Korver(12mpg)
brand(20mpg)/Young(28mpg)
Lopez(20mpg)/hawes(20mpg)/brand(8mpg)

acquiring brewer gives us a great defender to mask up for ellis.. and jrue can guard PG's and SG's..

turner becomes a matchup nightmare for other teams playing 3 positions off the bench, meaning we just rotate out 1 guy at a time for him... korver is there as a shooter for a limited amount of time and in situational times.

you have a 8 man roation above, i believe our scoring is way better, and we dont suffer to badly on defense at all with brewer here...

it just leaves no minutes for meeks, but maybe he can be another situational shooter

[sixerswillrule]

I thoght about Holiday, Ellis, and Turner rotating at the guard spots with Turner also getting some time at SF, but Brewer as the other SF? He'd be a horrible fit there for us on offense.

[P2K]

hahaah, I just gave you the reason the forum limits my ability to go back to previous posts. You are not credible. You are just riding on the fact that it is not possible to search things you've posted except the most recent.

You are boy because you've been displaying the intellect of a 4 year old and I call it out as it fits. Simple as that.

PhillyFan's continuous play at dumbing down the convo with uncivil banter because he came to a debate with a chew toy instead of a brain.

Can't argue against the fact Jrue would have an even easier time if we have shooters lining up. Him and Meeks are the only capable shooters on this team.

Still doesn't hide the fact the Iguodala is only adequate at finishing at the rim and that Jrue is better.

Jrue hasn't been in the league as long as those role players have.

Well, you didn't get into specifics, so I only went by your logic. Be more specific next time.

So then any veteran player that hasn't been named to Team USA is a scrub. Is that what you are saying?

Don't worry, SJSF loves you.

So does your sister

I call it out as it is. There's no need to be civil with you.

Because a debate to you means lol cat pictures and calling people "boy".

I don't really care. You are the one who started quoting me in this thread.

Aww I'm sorry for trying to make you use your noggin.

We have faced Orlando Magic/Miami Heat, both eventually got to NBA finals. Kind of a lope-sided argument there to proclaim the Hawks is the better team.

Atlanta took the champs to a tough 7 game series in '08. You can't sit there and say the Sixers have been a better team than Atlanta these past 3-4 years.

Talk =/= tanking for them. Not in the case or Irving. John Wall you can make an argument there.

Irving was talked about for two years or so. Sorry, you're wrong. He was going to be the talk of this past college basketball season. And if he played, the hype would have been in the Wall-like.

Eddie Jordan is the prime example of a terrible coach. You can't have Collins here and still expect us to tank. Collins wouldn't allow it.

You switched the argument up, but I'll go with you here. Collins ain't Phil Jackson. If he has to go through a period of rebuilding, so be it. If he can't do it, find another coach.

I'd have more faith in them than the players in this upcoming draft. Back to my point that not every year's draft is equal. It's quite a difficult concept to grasp for you really.

You said faith. Which means you have no idea if these players will be anything. So how is that different from what I've been saying? There are no guarantees of anything. Every draft has good players, heralded or unheralded. That's what YOU have a hard time of grasping.

I am calling out on your ridiculous example of Boston getting their big 3 by trading away their entire roster. That you can't defend.

And how did Boston get that Big 3?

Thanks Captain Hindsight.

You can say they positioned themselves long ago and forsee themselves becoming the success. I call it luck and say that Danny Ainge made a desperation attempt because nothing else was working for him.

Whatever you say. Whatever works for you.

Value is relative. You still don't get it.

Tell Jerry West that a top 5 pick is worth the same as a #17 pick and see what reaction you would get. Because you already have us in stitches.

[76ciology]

KrazySixersD,

I'd rather start Turner and let Brewer play off the bench. But I'm still not a fan of Brewer. He's A really big liability on offense. I'd rather have a lower rated defender with better offense than having Brewer.

[Tension]

My problem with this trade is what do we do with this moving forward? Our competition for the future is the Miami Heat and with Monta, we add an offensive firepower but we do not address our glaring weakness at C. We will be essentially be around the same calibur of a team and will pretty much never let ET or Jrue be the "guy" for this team.

If Monta performs well, we put ourselves in a bad spot later on in a possible near max contract and put ourselves in a Hawks-like situation. (which would contradict the thread we had earlier on the win now or build for a championship poll)

The reason why we SHOULD be trading Iguodala is to give us a good starting center for the future and maybe some other pieces while letting Jrue and ET become centerpieces in the offense. I dont think Monta is as bad for the team as others may say, but I don't think he's contender material as a first option player.

[KrazySixersD]

brewer would not have to be a threat offensively when we would have jrue, ellis, and brand on the floor.. people are complaining about the lack of defense, and rightfully so, but brewer would address that as he is a VERY good wing defender, one of the best in the league probably, and i think it would be better to have him start and play 24 mpg than having turner start, because in the scenario i described, turner is playing super sub playing over 30 minutes at PG, SG, and SF

[sixerswillrule]

We would need to have a SF who is threat offensively...from the outside. We would need someone who will be able to consistently knock down shots with Turner, Ellis, and Holiday getting into the lane. Yeah, he's a great defender but he would make things a lot tougher for the other guys on offense. Someone like Martell Webster would be better. He's a good defender and a great shooter.

[dbodner]

He's worth the contract. But do you really need to pay that much for a facilitator/defensive player?

Again, your explanation is contradictory. If you don't need to pay that much for a player who fulfill's Iguodala's role, then Iguodala (by your definition) isn't worth his contact.

You mentioned Lakers, Mavs and Spurs.
- Lamar Odom gets it done (and arguably better), playing the Iggy role with a -3M$ contract. (no complains from Lakers)
- Marion and Butler gets the job done, playing the Iggy role with less money. (no complains from Mavs)
- Manu Ginobili gets the job done, playing the Iggy role with less money. (no complains from Spurs)

Odom's previous contract (all with the Lakers) had him going up to $13/$14m. His second contract is virtually identical to Iguodala's second contract, especially when you look at it from the perspective of % of basketball related income/cap. He was the 3rd highest paid player on a championship team making $14 million. How does that prove that "smart" teams don't pay a guy of Iguodala's caliber/role that kind of money? A "smart" team DID pay a guy of Iguodala's caliber/role that kind of money!

Manu Ginobili made $11.8m this year. Iguodala $12.3. If you want to quibble about $500k making Iguodala overpaid, I'm not sure I buy your point. And this is comparing a 33 year old Ginobili to a 27 year old Iguodala.

Shawn Marion's nearly 34 years old and doesn't play near the same role Iguodala does. Caron Butler is, again, 5 years older than Iguodala and playing a much different role. Neither of them are the defender that they were in their prime, much less what Iguodala currently is.

"Smart" teams generally have 3 guys making $12m+. It's what happens. They get their stars, then they overpay very good veterans to add them as pieces to the puzzle.

You can't talk about Iguodala worth when comparing him to Tony Allen or Thabo Sefalosha, guys who aren't able to stay on the court more than 25 minutes per game because they don't bring enough to the table. It's like saying you don't need a #1 option because you can get Monta Ellis for $11m/y. The Lakers are a perfect example of what having that kind of versatility and talent as your 3rd/4th option can do, and yes, even of paying that kind of role $13-$14m/year on a "smart" championship team.

[PhillyFan]

PhillyFan's continuous play at dumbing down the convo with uncivil banter because he came to a debate with a chew toy instead of a brain.

Takes one to know one.

You are the prick who initiates the childish bickering. Constantly quoting others for having a different opinion and make sarcastic comments to make yourself feel big.

Still doesn't hide the fact the Iguodala is only adequate at finishing at the rim and that Jrue is better.

So now it becomes Iguodala vs. Jrue? Your tendency to go off topic gets way out of hand

Well, you didn't get into specifics, so I only went by your logic. Be more specific next time.

So then any veteran player that hasn't been named to Team USA is a scrub. Is that what you are saying?

Nope, just you and your boys.

By your logic, I guess Reggie Evans, a NBA veteran is as good as anyone on Team US?

So does your sister

Further confirms you are no more than a 4 year old.

Year 2000 called and would like their joke back.

Adolescent who is still growing out from puberty with fantasies about others' sisters and mothers.

What's next? A mama joke from the last decade? Here's one:

My sister (who is non-existenet) may love you, but it is nothing compare to what I did to your mother last night. Zing!

Because a debate to you means lol cat pictures and calling people "boy".

Cat pictures? Whatever drugs you are on, just keep smoking it

Aww I'm sorry for trying to make you use your noggin.

Noggin? LOL, my bad, you are probably no more than a 2 year old.

Atlanta took the champs to a tough 7 game series in '08. You can't sit there and say the Sixers have been a better team than Atlanta these past 3-4 years.

Where's the championship banner @ Atl?

They failed to reach the finals and are stuck in mediocrity. I am sorry I don't drool over the Hawks like you do.

Irving was talked about for two years or so. Sorry, you're wrong. He was going to be the talk of this past college basketball season. And if he played, the hype would have been in the Wall-like.

Calm down with your man love for Irving. You make everyone not named Iguodala sounds like the next Jordan

You switched the argument up, but I'll go with you here. Collins ain't Phil Jackson. If he has to go through a period of rebuilding, so be it. If he can't do it, find another coach.

Getting rid of a Coach of the Year candidate. Another P2K's foolproof way to get us to the bottom.

You said faith. Which means you have no idea if these players will be anything. So how is that different from what I've been saying? There are no guarantees of anything. Every draft has good players, heralded or unheralded. That's what YOU have a hard time of grasping.

Higher probability than you plunging yourself into a draft blindly.

P2K: "OMG, it's the draft, anyone in it will be franchise changers! It worked in NBA2K so it must work in real life!"

And how did Boston get that Big 3?

Like I said, Danny Ainge lucked out.

Don't tell me you honestly believe Danny Ainge envision grabbing a bunch of draft picks/young players to trade for the Big 3 well before it happened.

You would be more naive than you already displayed yourself as.

Tell Jerry West that a top 5 pick is worth the same as a #17 pick and see what reaction you would get. Because you already have us in stitches.

Naming the league's GMs doesn't prove anything.

Funny you name Jerry West. How did he get Kobe Bryant to the Lakers? Last time I check, he didn't "trade up".

P2K's logic of the day: Trade up for the draft! Drafting someone at the top 5 will automatically mean you net yourself a superstar! Look how well Marcus Fizer and Stromile Swift been beastin' in the league for the past decade!

[SJSF]

Manu is a much better player then Iggy. Odom is a much better player the Iggy. And Marion plays good defensive and rebounds very well at a discounted price compared to Iggy.

[Kobblehead]

Wait, who said Andre was better than Manu?

[dbodner]

Nobody. He was brought up on whether teams pay 3+ people an Iguodala-like salary.

[dbodner]

Also, unfortunately, you do have to be civil on this board. so the two of you have three options:
1) Be civil
2) Ignore each other
3) receive temporary bans

not playing a blame game, it'll happen to both of you. But it needs to stop.

[P2K]

Takes one to know one.

You are the prick who initiates the childish bickering. Constantly quoting others for having a different opinion and make sarcastic comments to make yourself feel big.

So now it becomes Iguodala vs. Jrue? Your tendency to go off topic gets way out of hand

I can make it Iguodala vs. God if you want.

Nope, just you and your boys.

By your logic, I guess Reggie Evans, a NBA veteran is as good as anyone on Team US?

Reggie Evans to take Michael Jordan and eat his cranium for dinner and save the rest for milkshakes.

My sister (who is non-existenet) may love you, but it is nothing compare to what I did to your mother last night. Zing!

I don't have a mother. I was born in a pod made of debris from Zeus' snot.

Cat pictures? Whatever drugs you are on, just keep smoking it

I don't smoke drugs. I feed them to wolverines and set them free in public for my amusement.

Noggin? LOL, my bad, you are probably no more than a 2 year old.

I'm actually 4,356 years old going on 4,357.

Where's the championship banner @ Atl?

They failed to reach the finals and are stuck in mediocrity. I am sorry I don't drool over the Hawks like you do.

Where's Atlanta's championship banner?? You mean Stern didn't make it happen?!?!!? Damn him!

Hold on. Let me knit one up. Gimme a minute. Hold...hold on.

Calm down with your man love for Irving. You make everyone not named Iguodala sounds like the next Jordan

All my million offspring are named Kyrie Irving. Even the females! WHAT?!

Getting rid of a Coach of the Year candidate. Another P2K's foolproof way to get us to the bottom.

It's safer. My other plan was to just destroy Earth. Then we would be forced to start from scratch.

Higher probability than you plunging yourself into a draft blindly.

P2K: "OMG, it's the draft, anyone in it will be franchise changers! It worked in NBA2K so it must work in real life!"

Hey! NBA 2K is very life-like, you hear me!!!

Like I said, Danny Ainge lucked out.

Don't tell me you honestly believe Danny Ainge envision grabbing a bunch of draft picks/young players to trade for the Big 3 well before it happened.

You would be more naive than you already displayed yourself as.

Of course Danny Ainge envisioned it. I put the chip in his head in his sleep when he was 3 years old.

Naming the league's GMs doesn't prove anything.

Funny you name Jerry West. How did he get Kobe Bryant to the Lakers? Last time I check, he didn't "trade up".

P2K's logic of the day: Trade up for the draft! Drafting someone at the top 5 will automatically mean you net yourself a superstar! Look how well Marcus Fizer and Stromile Swift been beastin' in the league for the past decade!

Marcus Fizer is making a comeback!

[dbodner]

One more post from either of you two and this thread is closed.

these posts are pointless.

[P2K]

You said be civil. Just following rules.