OMG... LeBron only 8 pts in an NBA Finals game

[Greatness]

After watching every cavs game lebron played for the last 3 years, I can honestly say he has lost a step athletically. I don't see him blow by his defender at all anymore, let alone as much as he did in Cleveland.

[Greatness]

I also don't care what the numbers say because that could be skewed, wade creates easy opportunities for him at the rim at times, for me it's about the eye test

[dm17415]

LeBron James, 8 points in 48 minutes at Game #4 of the NBA Finals. And that's after Jason friggin' Terry called him out in the media.

Question: Has Jordan ever performed that badly in the NBA Finals? Has Kobe?

Yes, Kobe. I can still remember not wanting to pass the ball to Shaq and shooting less than 40% in 4 of 5 games in the finals, assisting less and rebounding less than LBJ in this game. I mean, he also scored like 11 points in one of those games...

The difference is that LBJ just didn't shoot till he had 20 points. But I wish he would have, cause when you're a scorer it's on you to get yourself going. He wasn't agressive enough, but I've seen Kobe doing worse.

It's hard to defend Lebron after not being aggressive/assertive last nite but Wade and Bosh were playing well, if he had taken 20 shots it would've taken away from those two since he had an off night. Miami was a TO away from being up 3-1.

[dhh2h]

At least Kobe had the courage to keep playing and keep shooting during game 7 of the Finals last year.

Even if his shot wasn't falling he's Kobe Bryant and since none of his teammates were doing well offensively (besides Artest) he either dished it to Artest or shot it himself because thats what his team needed from him. Kobe didn't care about his field goal %, he cared about winning the damn game.

LeBron got scared once he was shooting 1-8 and only shot the ball 2 more times after that point because he knew if he kept shooting his field goal% would have been worse than Kobe's 6-24. LeBron was reduced to being a spectator because he was so afraid of the moment and afraid of the ridicule that would have taken place had he shot more. LeBron is a coward.

[jax98]

No, SHOOTER. There's a site called hoopdata.com that charts every player's jumper percentages from 3-9 feet, 10-15 feet, 16-23 feet on the court. You won't find a scorer in the league who has a better combination of efficiency in all those areas than LeBron this season. Look it up. There's a REASON why LeBron's managed to stay a border-line Top 5 player despite adopting a completely jump-shot based playing style this season. His jumper has REALLY, REALLY improved.

I know of HoopData, and I'm also familiar with LeBron's very strong jumpshooting season. But to call him one of the best shooters in the league, especially based on just season, is a stretch. Dirk Nowitzki was 7% stronger than James from the 16-23 area. Steve Nash was 6% better than James from the 10-15 feet area. Ray Allen was better than James from 3-9, 10-15 and the 16-23 area. Hell, Kobe was 6.8% better than James from 10-15 feet with 1.6 more attempts per game.

Another thing to look at, especially when looking at the 10-15 feet area, is the fact that LeBron was far less assisted from that area than before (27.6% assisted last season compared to 10.9% this season) which is a huge indicator of how much the defense to pack it in on Wade or Bosh, basically leaving him with one and one opportunities. In Cleveland, this was never the case. So the numbers, while technically correct and sound, are still a clear product of James having more help.

Having said this, James is assisted more from 16-23 this year, than last year. And he's knocked down that shot at a much higher rate. So he's improved without question. But to call him one of the league's best shooters is still not accurate. Another few years of him hitting 45% on 5.4 attempts from 16-23 and I'll start agreeing with you in terms of James being one of the best mid-range shooters.

And, he'll also have to shoot better than 33% from three-point range in order for me to acknowledge him as a great shooter.

[toodles23]

Just read a Bill Simmons article that said you could see it on Lebron's face that he was scared. I have no idea what he was watching, because I didn't see that at all. That theory just doesn't make any sense; suddenly he's scared of the moment after never having any issue like this before in his career? Now clearly something was going on, he just played the worst game of his career and didn't seem to give a ****, but it didn't look like he was "scared".

I've seen him making the exact same run outs throughout this series. He's had a couple of half-court dunks that made me sit up, too. So I haven't seen anything to suggest he's declined physically. Look at Kobe Bryant -- THAT is a player who has lost a step. But LeBron? I just don't see it. Sorry.

If we're going to go the youtube route, which I generally detest, this guy doesn't look like he's lost anything. Not physically, anyways.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPi_D7mMmWU[/youtube]

That drive almost looks like it's in slow motion. Lebron used to look like this on drives:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G6Wd8IZZjM#t=2m28s

I understand not wanting to cherry pick single plays from youtube, but I get the same feeling watching a full game - I watched a 2007 game of his right after game 5 of the Bulls series, and the superior athleticism stood out right away.

And again, I'm not blaming last night on any of this. He played like it was a preseason game.

[thedarkstark]

Lebron "GOAT" James stats through his first 8 NBA Finals games:

19.6 Ppg
6.5 Apg
7.1 Rpg
4.6 TOpg
0.3 Bpg
1.6 Spg
70% FT's
41% FG's

[Dat Pass]

Just read a Bill Simmons article that said you could see it on Lebron's face that he was scared. I have no idea what he was watching, because I didn't see that at all. That theory just doesn't make any sense; suddenly he's scared of the moment after never having any issue like this before in his career? Now clearly something was going on, he just played the worst game of his career and didn't seem to give a ****, but it didn't look like he was "scared".

Uhhh.. Kidding?

He had the EXACT same issue agaisnt Boston just last year.

[LuckedO]

Uhhh.. Kidding?

He had the EXACT same issue agaisnt Boston just last year.

Why would LeBron just pick a random game to get 'scared' right from tip-off while closing out countless games in his career like nobody else since entering the league?

The 'scared' talk makes the least sense. What's so scary about these Finals compared to the playoff series' against Boston and Chicago?

[amil]

I didnt know not shooting at least 80 % from the free throw line a great shooter

[Dat Pass]

Uhhh.. Kidding?

He had the EXACT same issue agaisnt Boston just last year.

Why would LeBron just pick a random game to get 'scared' right from tip-off while closing out countless games in his career like nobody else since entering the league?

The 'scared' talk makes the least sense. What's so scary about these Finals compared to the playoff series' against Boston and Chicago?

This is the Finals, EVERYTHING is on the line and the pressure is mounting. And since when has LeBron "closed out games like nobody else since entering the league"?

LeBron (both this year AND last) is either scared of the moment or he doesnt care. I dont know how you can explain it any other way.

[LuckedO]

Dirk Nowitzki was 7% stronger than James from the 16-23 area. Steve Nash was 6% better than James from the 10-15 feet area. Ray Allen was better than James from 3-9, 10-15 and the 16-23 area. Hell, Kobe was 6.8% better than James from 10-15 feet with 1.6 more attempts per game.

Great shooter was probably a stretch on my part, but find me a perimeter scorer who has LeBron's COMBINATION of efficiency from 3-23 feet. I didn't say LeBron was the best from each position on the court, but that he arguably has the best combination of all of those things. Your comparison makes no sense. That's like saying how can MJ be GOAT when LeBron's the better finisher, Bird's the better shooter, Wade's the better penetrator and Kobe the better ball handler. You can't take the best of each player and compare it to 1 guy.

[LuckedO]

This is the Finals, EVERYTHING is on the line and the pressure is mounting.

I'm having a difficult time understanding why there's any more pressure on him now compared to facing Boston or Chicago.

And since when has LeBron "closed out games like nobody else since entering the league"?

http://www.backpicks.com/2011/01/10/the ... ince-2003/

LeBron (both this year AND last) is either scared of the moment or he doesnt care.

Why would LeBron suddenly get scared after what he did against Boston and Chicago? And that too right from tip-off? His team's up in the series, his teammates are playing well, it's not a must-win....WTF is he scared for? That's a really lame reason to pin his struggles on.

[bruddahmanmatt]

I'm just curious, if you're a Miami fan, how are you not absolutely PISSED right now? A bad shooting night is one thing, but to appear disinterested and play like you just don't give a rat's ass, I mean how does that not anger you to no end? I'd be so upset if Kobe ever took on a "whatever" approach. In fact I lost a s*** ton of respect for Gasol this year because that's exactly what it looked like he did out there and in Phil's last year on top of that.

[Dat Pass]

You tell me then since you seem to have the answers. If hes not scared of the moment, why is he playing so extremely passive? Exactly the same way he did in the last couple games agaisnt Boston? He has 9 points in 4 4th quarters..

You can only explain that kinda of poor production in 4 straight VERY close games with either a) hes scared of the moment, b) he doesnt really care or c) hes just not that good. And we all know the answer isnt c.

[bruddahmanmatt]

You tell me then since you seem to have the answers. If hes not scared of the moment, why is he playing so extremely passive? Exactly the same way he did in the last couple games agaisnt Boston? He has 9 points in 4 4th quarters..

You can only explain that kinda of poor production in 4 straight VERY close games with either a) hes scared of the moment, b) he doesnt really care or c) hes just not that good. And we all know the answer isnt c.

What about d) he's salty about the fact that Wade is in the running for Finals MVP over him and as such, he's decided to mail it in since he can't be the center of attention?

[zogster]

He's not scared of the moment, but he's completely out of it mentally.

You could make the claim that he was scared of the moment last night if he was playing great except didn't want to shoot, but he wasn't. He didn't seem to be playing very hard at all, and was pretty disinterested in the game as a whole.

Scared of the moment would be passing up wide open looks instead of shooting them. LeBron rarely even made a hard cut or an aggressive move. His defense on Terry was lackadaisical. As Stevenson said, he checked out of the game.

[schematics]

No, SHOOTER. There's a site called hoopdata.com that charts every player's jumper percentages from 3-9 feet, 10-15 feet, 16-23 feet on the court. You won't find a scorer in the league who has a better combination of efficiency in all those areas than LeBron this season. Look it up. There's a REASON why LeBron's managed to stay a border-line Top 5 player despite adopting a completely jump-shot based playing style this season. His jumper has REALLY, REALLY improved.

I know of HoopData, and I'm also familiar with LeBron's very strong jumpshooting season. But to call him one of the best shooters in the league, especially based on just season, is a stretch. Dirk Nowitzki was 7% stronger than James from the 16-23 area. Steve Nash was 6% better than James from the 10-15 feet area. Ray Allen was better than James from 3-9, 10-15 and the 16-23 area. Hell, Kobe was 6.8% better than James from 10-15 feet with 1.6 more attempts per game.

Another thing to look at, especially when looking at the 10-15 feet area, is the fact that LeBron was far less assisted from that area than before (27.6% assisted last season compared to 10.9% this season) which is a huge indicator of how much the defense to pack it in on Wade or Bosh, basically leaving him with one and one opportunities. In Cleveland, this was never the case. So the numbers, while technically correct and sound, are still a clear product of James having more help.

Having said this, James is assisted more from 16-23 this year, than last year. And he's knocked down that shot at a much higher rate. So he's improved without question. But to call him one of the league's best shooters is still not accurate. Another few years of him hitting 45% on 5.4 attempts from 16-23 and I'll start agreeing with you in terms of James being one of the best mid-range shooters.

And, he'll also have to shoot better than 33% from three-point range in order for me to acknowledge him as a great shooter.

Why does it matter if someone passed him the ball or not for him to be seen as a good shooter?
*bolded*

[schematics]

Uhhh.. Kidding?

He had the EXACT same issue agaisnt Boston just last year.

Why would LeBron just pick a random game to get 'scared' right from tip-off while closing out countless games in his career like nobody else since entering the league?

The 'scared' talk makes the least sense. What's so scary about these Finals compared to the playoff series' against Boston and Chicago?

Have you played ball at a high level before? The fact that all those other playoffs and games do not stand up to a fnals series where he is 2 gms from winning his first ring or 2 gms away from not winning it...is the DIFFERENCE [

[schematics]

This is the Finals, EVERYTHING is on the line and the pressure is mounting.

I'm having a difficult time understanding why there's any more pressure on him now compared to facing Boston or Chicago.

There is no hope for you then! How you cannot see the vast difference in being 2 gms away from winning or not winning a ring is beyond me unless you have never played basketball at great lengths at a high organized level. It' called pressure n also what made MJ so great because he rarely backed down or cracked from it. Those last 2 free throws wade took last night when he missed one...MJ would have relished in the moment n knocked them both down n changed the whole complexion of that game. That's why you have stars n legends n most legends flourish under great pressure