GM-A-TEAM MAY/JUNE '11 DISCUSSION

[-Kees-]

New Jersey – Like that they essentially traded Deron Williams for Stephen Curry and Rudy Gay. But outside of that, I don’t think it really corrects any major concerns like rebounding and post defense that hurt the Nets in real life. Decent upgrade to the Nets, but nothing that is going to push them into a title contender.

A) Kris Humphries is one of 6 players to average 10 rpg, and also plays great interior defense.
B) Biedrins has lots of hope. MANY believe he can go back to 11/11/2, and by paying 28 MPG next to Lopez and other perimeter options, he would be in a great place to do so on my team.
C) Lopez is the 2nd best post up C in the league (to Dwight), and with shooters and many guys who can create offense, wouldn't they be at least considered up for the title? Curry/Gay/Lopez, with Hump/Lee/Roddy has tons of potential, is good fit wise, and are all under 26.

Again, not trying to be rude or anything just stating my opinion.

[moss_is_1]

New Jersey Rankings



13. Miami - Got younger, good mentor in Duncan. Worried about having Westrbook and LBJ together, as they both love the ball...LMA was a good pickup though.



2012 Champion: LAL

Westbrook and Wade have the exact same USG%, and I think LBJ/Wade have made a nice duo...

I fail to see how LAL would be able to beat me in a series either, no offense.

Wade is 28, Westrbook 22. Just saying that he isn't as mature and also isn't LeBron's best friend either... He loves the ball, and even with Durant on his team tried to be 'the man', so with LBJ (and a bigger stage) why would it change? and even though they are both decent 3pt shooters, they aren't spot up, they both just walk up and hit them, so it's hard for both to play off ball.

Not trying to be rude or anything, but I've never thought Westbrook/LBJ was a good duo, and with a team like Miami's talent, the ranking has to do a lot with fit and age.

Westbrook may be 22, but he still just came off an All-NBA 2nd team appearance. LBJ is showing he can be more of a setup guy, and I would feel that either one would be happy playing elite d/playmaking but still getting their 20-25 points a night.

[RTM]

@ Karmaloop:

Detroit – I think they might have actually gotten worse. Greg Monroe seems like the only possible bright spot for the Pistons. Just don’t like what they did. Not to mention, their lack of size is going to kill them night in and night out.

Getting better isn't always the immediate intention of rebuilding. I took a team that needed to strip down, and did so without losing assets. The goal was not to actually get better, but to commit to rebuilding and surrounding the talent with the right kind of vets to help foster development.

Maybe you did understand and still feel that way, but I pretty clearly stated all my thoughts in my writeup, and I don't really feel like I was the worst of 24.

My two cents.

[Karmaloop]

Getting better isn't always the immediate intention of rebuilding. I took a team that needed to strip down, and did so without losing assets. The goal was not to actually get better, but to commit to rebuilding and surrounding the talent with the right kind of vets to help foster development.

Maybe you did understand and still feel that way, but I pretty clearly stated all my thoughts in my writeup, and I don't really feel like I was the worst of 24.

My two cents.

Moving forward, you've got essentially two pieces that might play in the future in Greg Monroe and Jan Vesely. I was one of the biggest fans of Monroe in last year's draft, but he's a natural power forward playing center. This team will struggle to create on offense, and shut down on defense because of their lack of size. A recipe for disaster. This seems like a similar team to the current Pistons one, except with the bad contracts off the books.

[Karmaloop]

A) Kris Humphries is one of 6 players to average 10 rpg, and also plays great interior defense.
B) Biedrins has lots of hope. MANY believe he can go back to 11/11/2, and by paying 28 MPG next to Lopez and other perimeter options, he would be in a great place to do so on my team.
C) Lopez is the 2nd best post up C in the league (to Dwight), and with shooters and many guys who can create offense, wouldn't they be at least considered up for the title? Curry/Gay/Lopez, with Hump/Lee/Roddy has tons of potential, is good fit wise, and are all under 26.

Again, not trying to be rude or anything just stating my opinion.

A) I'm one of the people who believes that if Brook Lopez was even a half way competent rebounder, Humphries wouldn't average 10 RPG. And is it really any coincidence that Humphries rebounds went up with the more minutes he played? He averaged 0.31 rebounds per minute in the '09/'10 season, this year he averaged 0.37. So he got slightly more efficient, but not significantly. Opportunities doesn't directly translate to actual talent.

B.) And he could easily remain the same way. You're wanting to put him in the most positive light, but I'm looking at the floor as well. He's only averaged over 10 PPG and 10 RPG once in his career, and that was three seasons ago. He's only twice average over 10 PPG and 9 RPG. And his PPG and RPG have gone down in Golden State since Stephen Curry was on board, so I'm betting it's not a significant difference in New Jersey.

C.) That's like being the tallest midget, especially how barren the center position in the NBA is. And for the sake of discussion, we're not talking about natural power forwards playing center (talking to you Al Horford). I'd argue that Andrew Bogut and Andrew Bynum have as much talent posting up if not more than Brook Lopez. Lopez's FG% and eFG% are below .500 the last two years. Andrew Bynum has been above .500 in both categories for the last two years, and Bogut was above and below in both categories one year each. Brook Lopez is a really good player, and probably one of the best young big men in the league, but he's a flawed player.

[Karmaloop]

By the time Beasley is a free agents, I'll be at 37 million. That's with a young group of players about to enter the early stages of their prime in Jordan/Ariza/Thornton still under contract, with 4 other young players still on their rookie contract. I don't see how that wouldn't be enough money to acquire a free agent and possibly retain Beasley at 37 million - with the entire team still intact.

Don't know why David West would be a win-now kind of guy when his game makes him the perfect mentor (probably would have to be a role he'd have to assume because of his injury) for a similar player in Morris; and the fact that he expires sweetens the deal. Perhaps I looked at it too realistically?

I also intentionally stockpiled on first rounders in 2012/2013 so I could add even more young talent on cheap contracts just in case I had to go over the cap 2 years from now.

I guess we just see it differently, but this is half of the fun of the game, and I've enjoyed it! Thanks!

So let's assume a contract of around 10 million for Beasley, that pushes your cap up to 47 million with let's just say optimistically 15 million in cap space. Would a superstar really want to sign a max contract to play alongside Marcus Thornton, Trevor Ariza, and DeAndre Jordan. Seems a lot like the Blazers team a few years ago that had a bit of promise, but didn't live up to the hype.

You really going to pay David West to be a veteran when you could pay someone like Kurt Thomas a fraction of that. Not to mention, he's not going to want to stick around a rebuilding franchise after his contract is up.

Add on those picks, and the guaranteed contracts that come with it and your cap space goes down a bit more. You did a good job acquiring assets, but that's about it. Nothing excites me about your future.

[mtamasi]

A) Kris Humphries is one of 6 players to average 10 rpg, and also plays great interior defense.
B) Biedrins has lots of hope. MANY believe he can go back to 11/11/2, and by paying 28 MPG next to Lopez and other perimeter options, he would be in a great place to do so on my team.
C) Lopez is the 2nd best post up C in the league (to Dwight), and with shooters and many guys who can create offense, wouldn't they be at least considered up for the title? Curry/Gay/Lopez, with Hump/Lee/Roddy has tons of potential, is good fit wise, and are all under 26.

Again, not trying to be rude or anything just stating my opinion.

A) I'm one of the people who believes that if Brook Lopez was even a half way competent rebounder, Humphries wouldn't average 10 RPG. And is it really any coincidence that Humphries rebounds went up with the more minutes he played? He averaged 0.31 rebounds per minute in the '09/'10 season, this year he averaged 0.37. So he got slightly more efficient, but not significantly. Opportunities doesn't directly translate to actual talent.

B.) And he could easily remain the same way. You're wanting to put him in the most positive light, but I'm looking at the floor as well. He's only averaged over 10 PPG and 10 RPG once in his career, and that was three seasons ago. He's only twice average over 10 PPG and 9 RPG. And his PPG and RPG have gone down in Golden State since Stephen Curry was on board, so I'm betting it's not a significant difference in New Jersey.

C.) That's like being the tallest midget, especially how barren the center position in the NBA is. And for the sake of discussion, we're not talking about natural power forwards playing center (talking to you Al Horford). I'd argue that Andrew Bogut and Andrew Bynum have as much talent posting up if not more than Brook Lopez. Lopez's FG% and eFG% are below .500 the last two years. Andrew Bynum has been above .500 in both categories for the last two years, and Bogut was above and below in both categories one year each. Brook Lopez is a really good player, and probably one of the best young big men in the league, but he's a flawed player.

I was going to ask how most people are going to base their rankings, but i'm sure i got my answer. stats aren't everything man... you say you're looking at the floor as well? look at the team Biedrins was on, Golden State doesn't exactly help a guy like him. on a team like New Jersey he'd be quite special, if Humpries can average a double double than Biedrins most certainly can as well...

my rankings will be up soon, but they might be totally differnent than some of these. i'll be looking at set goals and if/how they were achieved, as well as how well i think the team would perform in real life.


also, if Westbrook/Durant can form an awesome duo, Westbrook/LBJ would be superb. and i really don't care for either of the latter...

[Karmaloop]

I was going to ask how most people are going to base their rankings, but i'm sure i got my answer. stats aren't everything man... you say you're looking at the floor as well? look at the team Biedrins was on, Golden State doesn't exactly help a guy like him. on a team like New Jersey he'd be quite special, if Humpries can average a double double than Biedrins most certainly can as well...

I'm not saying he can't average a double-double, even though the primary ball handler in Golden State would be Steph Curry, which would be the same as in New Jersey. The only noticeable difference is that he doesn't have to do deal with Monta Ellis needing the ball in his hands to be effective. My problem is that you're essentially paying Biedrins 9 million per year to backup Brook Lopez. That's an awfully expensive backup. And it's not like he brings some sport of special talent.

also, if Westbrook/Durant can form an awesome duo, Westbrook/LBJ would be superb. and i really don't care for either of the latter...

While I'm not sure anyone can tell me that Durant is better than LeBron, Durant seems to be a better fit with Westbrook than James. James needs the ball in his hands to be effective, where Durant does a great job using screens and curls to get himself open.

[mtamasi]

James is a better all around player than Durant and should be able to play with a ball hog like Westbrook better than a ball hog KD. lol, talk about needing the ball in his hands... and i love that player. when all is said and done James will probably have more triple doubles than anyone ever. a guy like that can handle teaming up with a "bad" PG and still succeed. IMO, SF James >>> SF Durant, and that's essentially what we should be talking about.

** and yes, paying Biedrins $9 million to back up Lopez is way too much. but since you didn't use that as your arguement before you can't use it now. again, how are we ranking these? it's all subjective...

[-Kees-]

James is a better all around player than Durant and should be able to play with a ball hog like Westbrook better than a ball hog KD. lol, talk about needing the ball in his hands... and i love that player. when all is said and done James will probably have more triple doubles than anyone ever. a guy like that can handle teaming up with a "bad" PG and still succeed. IMO, SF James >>> SF Durant, and that's essentially what we should be talking about.

** and yes, paying Biedrins $9 million to back up Lopez is way too much. but since you didn't use that as your arguement before you can't use it now. again, how are we ranking these? it's all subjective...

Just to answer that question:

Judge on how people did as the GM. Take in account salary, age, what they started with and what they ended with. That prevents teams like LAL and MIA from winning every time just because they started with good assets. List all teams that posted writeups (1-23) and as a bonus criteria, do who you think wins the title in 2012 and who wins in 2017.

[Karmaloop]

James is a better all around player than Durant and should be able to play with a ball hog like Westbrook better than a ball hog KD. lol, talk about needing the ball in his hands... and i love that player. when all is said and done James will probably have more triple doubles than anyone ever. a guy like that can handle teaming up with a "bad" PG and still succeed. IMO, SF James >>> SF Durant, and that's essentially what we should be talking about.

Again, I've already admitted that LeBron James is a much better player than Kevin Durant. The thing is that LeBron James needs a competent and reliable big man and shooters around him. That keeps the defenses honest and doesn't allow them to pack the paint in against LeBron James when he drives to the paint, which is his strength. Both LeBron and Russell Westbrook are best when they're penetrating defenses off the dribble. There is only one ball on the court, so that could be a bit of a problem. Unlike LeBron James, Kevin Durant does a really good job using screens and curls to get an open shot. How often do you see LeBron James coming off a double pick and find himself open with an open shot? Kevin Durant, much like Ray Allen of the Celtics and Richard Hamilton of the Pistons, do a great job using his teammates to get open, and doesn't need to overdribble the ball in order to get his points. LeBron needs the ball in his hands to be effective, watch the NBA Finals if you don't believe me.

** and yes, paying Biedrins $9 million to back up Lopez is way too much. but since you didn't use that as your arguement before you can't use it now. again, how are we ranking these? it's all subjective...

I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say. If you're referring to the fact that I didn't directly mention that in my write up, I could have written a paragraph about each team but decided not to and summed up my thoughts in a few words. Biedrins has been pure hype up until this point, and for all the potential he had, he's never reached the level that some thought he'd be at. He's overpaid, and quite frankly he's no different than say Brendan Haywood. Just instead of defense, he offers you more offense. You want to pay Haywood $9 million per year? I wouldn't.

[mtamasi]

i didn't even want to pay Haywood less than $8 mil, so i'm with you there. i was just playin'. that, IMO, is the only real reason why Biedrins in NJ wouldn't work.


i know your feelings towards who's better, that's probably only an issue with the biggest KD supporters...

let's agree to disagree on this one, because as much as i hate LeBron/love Durant as professional atheles/role models, i don't think there will ever be a case (now) where anyone can realistically say that LeBron wouldn't be a better fit with another player over somebody else. he's just that good. most of us thought he and Wade would be redundant, but they were both being talked about for the MVP award and they represent two of the 30 (max) players still playing this year. as much as i hate it, he's the best we've seen in a long time and he can form an awesome duo with any competent player in this league. and Westbrook is more than competent.

i honestly understand what you're saying, i just don't agree with the whole thing.

[mtamasi]

and btw the Biedrins thing?? do you not see my signature? i'd definitely value a $9 million one dimensional center if that one dimension is defense over a $10 million one dimensional center who doesn't know what defense is... lol.

[Crispy]

Damn gotta redeem myself next game..not getting any love.

[Devilanche]

kind of hard to improve teams like Lakers.

[dan_atko97]

I guess we won widest range. 2~22

[Karmaloop]

Did Kees announce the winner yet?

[nikkoewan]

Although i didn't agree with the comments about what i did with the grizzlies like:
- Lowry and Conley are basically the same
- losing Gay's gonna hurt
- Kevin Martin's a one trick pony
- didn't do much to improve team

I appreciate the comments. Had fun GM'ing with you guys. Although, i have a question, what are your feelings about TOO much trading? i mean we ARE playing GM to teams, that doesn't mean we can just continuously flip them? You don't see someone as valuable as Howard, be traded twice? or Deron Williams get traded twice too. I don't know, just putting my two cents into it. My idea was to put a number of trade cap? that way people don't just trade and trade(maybe something like 7 trades total? or 8?). Plus, I also question the assumptions of other people that they can just spend. I mean, if market and owner didn't matter, I would have done FAR more for the Grizzlies that what I did. But my idea is, GMs don't just go and get whomever they want without the idea of costs. So maybe, we can set the owner attitude before the lottery of teams? something like

Atlanta - willing to spend a little bit for a championship otherwise avoid costs at all time
Boston - willing to spend a lot for a championship otherwise avoid costs at all time
Cleveland - willing to spend a ton for a championship and for rebuilding
Dallas - willing to spend a lot for a championship and for rebuilding
NY - willing to spend a lot for a championship and for rebuilding
etc....

this case, we can't just go out and assume that we can take on salary to get young talent? because only CLE, NY, LAL, DAL, maybe POR are willing to do that.. Just my two cents

[-Kees-]

Did Kees announce the winner yet?

Not yet, I've been super busy these past couple of days. Calculating all of the rankings now, the winner (and full rankings) will be announced tonight so that we can get going on the next game.

[Warriorfan]

So the next game is sunday