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You can blame Lebron, but you can't beat the zone with ISO

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You can blame Lebron, but you can't beat the zone with ISO 

Post#1 » by truthiness » Thu Jun 9, 2011 10:00 pm

And that's all the Heat played on the off end all year long: ISO.

In an interview with Lebatard, Jalen Rose pointed out what I've been saying throughout the season:
Miami's system doesn't put Lebron (or others) in the best situations for them to succeed.

http://www.790theticket.com/lebatard.aspx
at the 8 min mark

You need to have movement, down screens, player screens, opportunities for lobs over the top. Lebron James is the kind of athlete - Alonzo Mourning was one of the best in the NBA and when one team missed the shot he would run and sprint to the front end of the basket and post up and get the ball in early offense - Lebron James has the kind of athleticism to do that, but a lot of times when you play in a system you have to do what you're asked to do, and those aren't situations that he's put in when he plays for the Miami Heat.


He also goes on to say that the Mavs' D is geared towards stopping Lebron. And they kinda did, by swarming him when he got the ball. And, as Jalen Rose points, he didn't even get the ball that often in g4. He made the good basketball play: passing when doubled/swarmed and not forcing the issue. He contributed in other areas: assists, rebounds. I blame his inability to score part of him not being aggressive enough, but mostly on him not being put in a good situation to score.

Heat fans turned, at times, on Wade, Lebron, Bosh or other Heat players. But the real problem is not a bad game or 2 by a player, but Heat's offensive system, which is basically: give the ball to X and clear out. Scoring just on pure talent will only take you so far. The Heat being a talented team, it took them VERY far and it helped hide this issue. But it surfaced from time to time. Like when Bosh complained about not getting the ball where he likes it. The next game he did and he delivered. What happened next ? The system stayed the same, he stopped getting the ball down low and keeps getting it top of the key.

But as soon as the Mavs switched to zone, you could see the Heat looking confused, cause they couldn't play ISO and they didn't know what else to do.

As Lebatard points out correctly, the Heat won against the Celtics and Bulls hitting low percentage shots. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. And the Heat died by the sword in g2 and g4.

The Mavs are now just playing the percentages. They knew eventually Wade and Lebron would miss those same shots. And now they're missing them. They saw how the Heat can only score in transition, but if the Mavs execute and take care of the ball on the offensive end, that limits the Heat's transition points. They saw how the Heat have trouble against the zone, and you can bet you'll see more of that zone in g5.

The real issue of the Heat is not a player having a bad game. The Lakers won g7 with Kobe shooting 6-24. The real issue is the Heat win on nothing but talent. There's no offensive system. But unfortunately for the Heat, the Mavs might have found the answer to stop their talent: the zone. And the Mavs were the team that played the zone the most during the season.

I have a really bad feeling about g5, because I don't trust the Heat's system. I trust their players. I didn't complain about them all year long. But I fear the "system" will fail them and all their hard work during this year will be lost.
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Re: You can blame Lebron, but you can't beat the zone with I 

Post#2 » by Chosen01 » Thu Jun 9, 2011 10:23 pm

Its true, this team played great when Bosh started getting the ball in the low post with blowouts in SA, wins over the Lakers etc.We should NOT be struggling to score 90+ with a team that has LeBron,Wade and Bosh on it.

I'd love the Heat to hire Adelman as an offensive assistant in the offseason if he''d want the position.
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Re: You can blame Lebron, but you can't beat the zone with I 

Post#3 » by DWadeno3 » Thu Jun 9, 2011 10:26 pm

I partially agree with this. Sure, our offense is far from top-notch and we're not using our talents to the best of its abilities, but we simply went into choke-mode in games 2 and 4. While we checked out mentally in game 2 and were never able to recover from it, we simply weren't aggressive and committed dumb mistakes down the stretch in game 4. We could've and should've at least won one of the two, even with our poor and simple offense.
One thing I'm worried about is the lack of adjustments we make, especially defensively, which is supposed to be Spo's calling card. They exposed our strong hedging/trapping on the perimeter badly by using Chandler in pick and rolls. Our big was too far out to recover and the other big had to help off of Nowitzki, which is something we don't want, so our entire defense basically broke down multiple times because of it. This is one of the things we need to fix because otherwise, they'll have simple stuff to get the relatively easy points.
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Re: You can blame Lebron, but you can't beat the zone with I 

Post#4 » by WD » Thu Jun 9, 2011 10:37 pm

DWadeno3 wrote:I partially agree with this. Sure, our offense is far from top-notch and we're not using our talents to the best of its abilities, but we simply went into choke-mode in games 2 and 4. While we checked out mentally in game 2 and were never able to recover from it, we simply weren't aggressive and committed dumb mistakes down the stretch in game 4. We could've and should've at least one of the two, even with our poor and simple offense.
One thing I'm worried about is the lack of adjustments we make, especially defensively, which is supposed to be Spo's calling card. They exposed our strong hedging/trapping on the perimeter badly by using Chandler in pick and rolls. Our big was too far out to recover and the other big had to help off of Nowitzki, which is something we don't want, so our entire defense basically broke down multiple times because of it. This is one of the things we need to fix because otherwise, they'll have simple stuff to get the relatively easy points.

and this is my concern - our opponent adjusts to what we are doing, we counter with doing the same thing, but harder, with more energy, etc. It's like it's against the rules to make even subtle adjustments. I don't know why we aren't blowing this team out, the collapsed leads sometimes results in their adjusting to what we are doing, and we just keeping running the same thing.

I am more worried about the adjustments than how many points Wade/Lebron have - I keep trying to hear something from our Coach to indicate that he actually understands why we are losing these close games, still haven't heard anything rational. Still hear stuff about our "resolve, effort, etc."
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Re: You can blame Lebron, but you can't beat the zone with I 

Post#5 » by WD » Thu Jun 9, 2011 10:40 pm

The first I do at the start of each game is watch the very first offensive play we run(whether we walk the ball up), where we bring the ball(corner versus any where else) and how many times we pass the ball needlessly before attempting a shot.

The next thing I look for, is our first defensive possession, how far we retreat before we actually play defense, how far we hedge out, and who we have left open because of double teaming.
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Re: You can blame Lebron, but you can't beat the zone with I 

Post#6 » by DefenseWins » Thu Jun 9, 2011 11:49 pm

this team is full of iso's

bosh, wade and LBJ

I don't think they will change anything ...
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Re: You can blame Lebron, but you can't beat the zone with I 

Post#7 » by DeeDub » Thu Jun 9, 2011 11:58 pm

This is kind of silly. The Heat does not play just iso. We use a lot of pick and roll, screens, backscreens etc. If you don't see that I don't know what to tell you. Yes we do use some iso too. every team does and we use it more than most. Why? Because we have 2 of the 5 best iso players in the league.

We didn't lose games 2 and 4 due to schemes. we lost them because we truned the ball over down the stretch and didn't make shots. The turnovers were mostly unforced -- just careless play. And we didn't lose because the Mavs invested the novel defensive concept of a zone. We have seen plenty of zone this year and have beaten it many times. At the end of games 2 and 4, we didn't.

It's particularly strange to be tying LeBron's struggles to our supposed exclusive reliance on iso. I can think of only one shot that LeBron took off an iso in that game, and that was the short jumper over Terry that he made. His other shots were not in isos. And if we only use isos and isos can't beat the zone (which the Mavs use a lot of), then how is Wade playing so well and so efficiently?
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Re: You can blame Lebron, but you can't beat the zone with I 

Post#8 » by truthiness » Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:16 am

DeeDub wrote:This is kind of silly. The Heat does not play just iso. We use a lot of pick and roll, screens, backscreens etc. If you don't see that I don't know what to tell you. Yes we do use some iso too. every team does and we use it more than most. Why? Because we have 2 of the 5 best iso players in the league.

We didn't lose games 2 and 4 due to schemes. we lost them because we truned the ball over down the stretch and didn't make shots. The turnovers were mostly unforced -- just careless play. And we didn't lose because the Mavs invested the novel defensive concept of a zone. We have seen plenty of zone this year and have beaten it many times. At the end of games 2 and 4, we didn't.

It's particularly strange to be tying LeBron's struggles to our supposed exclusive reliance on iso. I can think of only one shot that LeBron took off an iso in that game, and that was the short jumper over Terry that he made. His other shots were not in isos. And if we only use isos and isos can't beat the zone (which the Mavs use a lot of), then how is Wade playing so well and so efficiently?


watch more carefully .... most of the pick&rolls end up with someone in an ISO. only, sometimes, with a better match-up. but ISOs nonetheless.
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Re: You can blame Lebron, but you can't beat the zone with I 

Post#9 » by TheAnkh » Fri Jun 10, 2011 3:59 am

It seems that iso is all he knows how to do. He does NOT move off the ball. And he can't attack Dallas' D quickly because of his footwork. Wade on essentially one leg was more impressive than him tonight.

The thing that makes people go crazy over LeBron is his stats. But look at tonight, he had a triple double but it was the most invisible, no effect on the game stat line I've seen in a long time. And now we are on the brink of losing a championship because of these flaws.
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Re: You can blame Lebron, but you can't beat the zone with I 

Post#10 » by truthiness » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:07 am

TheAnkh wrote:It seems that iso is all he knows how to do. He does NOT move off the ball. And he can't attack Dallas' D quickly because of his footwork. Wade on essentially one leg was more impressive than him tonight.

The thing that makes people go crazy over LeBron is his stats. But look at tonight, he had a triple double but it was the most invisible, no effect on the game stat line I've seen in a long time. And now we are on the brink of losing a championship because of these flaws.


Have you seen what happened when he went to the rim ?
Got called for charges over and over again, even when they were clear blocking fouls. He realized there's no point in driving. He's not getting the calls. Not this season.

It should be up to Spoelstra to give him the ball in different places. Change something. But he's a freakin moron.
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Re: You can blame Lebron, but you can't beat the zone with I 

Post#11 » by TheAnkh » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:38 am

truthiness wrote:
TheAnkh wrote:It seems that iso is all he knows how to do. He does NOT move off the ball. And he can't attack Dallas' D quickly because of his footwork. Wade on essentially one leg was more impressive than him tonight.

The thing that makes people go crazy over LeBron is his stats. But look at tonight, he had a triple double but it was the most invisible, no effect on the game stat line I've seen in a long time. And now we are on the brink of losing a championship because of these flaws.


Have you seen what happened when he went to the rim ?
Got called for charges over and over again, even when they were clear blocking fouls. He realized there's no point in driving. He's not getting the calls. Not this season.

It should be up to Spoelstra to give him the ball in different places. Change something. But he's a freakin moron.


I'm sorry but I'm not hearing it. I was willing to defend LeBron all this time because I kept feeling and believing he'd bounce back, but he's given us nothing. All season long, if anyone has been getting jobbed by the refs its been Wade. And we all complain about him complaining to the officials, even blast him for taking contact, falling on the ground, and not being the first one down the floor back on D. But now we are to make excuses for LeBron not getting some calls so it being okay for him to take jumper after jumper. What BS.

And understand that its not even his offense I've had the biggest problem with in this series, its been his D. Whoever he's guarding is having a field day. Not having it going offensively in a series is forgivable, especially with the type of offense we run, but his pathetic D is inexcusable.
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Re: You can blame Lebron, but you can't beat the zone with I 

Post#12 » by truthiness » Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:58 am

TheAnkh wrote:I'm sorry but I'm not hearing it.


Than any conversation with you is an exercise in futility.
Let me know when you're willing to "hear it" and when you gonna open your eyes and see the truth.

Looking for a scapegoat is easy.
Trying to understand what happened and why takes a little bit of work.
Let me know when you're over the kneejerk reaction and willing to put in the work and really comprehend the issues.
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Re: You can blame Lebron, but you can't beat the zone with I 

Post#13 » by TheAnkh » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:23 am

truthiness wrote:
TheAnkh wrote:I'm sorry but I'm not hearing it.


Than any conversation with you is an exercise in futility.
Let me know when you're willing to "hear it" and when you gonna open your eyes and see the truth.

Looking for a scapegoat is easy.
Trying to understand what happened and why takes a little bit of work.
Let me know when you're over the kneejerk reaction and willing to put in the work and really comprehend the issues.


Right. Let me know when your agenda is not to just defend LeBron blindly against any criticism. Honestly speaking, I wish LeBron had put as much into his defense on Terry/Marion as you put into your defense for him.

Goodnight.
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Re: You can blame Lebron, but you can't beat the zone with I 

Post#14 » by DeeDub » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:06 pm

truthiness wrote:
DeeDub wrote:This is kind of silly. The Heat does not play just iso. We use a lot of pick and roll, screens, backscreens etc. If you don't see that I don't know what to tell you. Yes we do use some iso too. every team does and we use it more than most. Why? Because we have 2 of the 5 best iso players in the league.

We didn't lose games 2 and 4 due to schemes. we lost them because we truned the ball over down the stretch and didn't make shots. The turnovers were mostly unforced -- just careless play. And we didn't lose because the Mavs invested the novel defensive concept of a zone. We have seen plenty of zone this year and have beaten it many times. At the end of games 2 and 4, we didn't.

It's particularly strange to be tying LeBron's struggles to our supposed exclusive reliance on iso. I can think of only one shot that LeBron took off an iso in that game, and that was the short jumper over Terry that he made. His other shots were not in isos. And if we only use isos and isos can't beat the zone (which the Mavs use a lot of), then how is Wade playing so well and so efficiently?



watch more carefully .... most of the pick&rolls end up with someone in an ISO. only, sometimes, with a better match-up. but ISOs nonetheless.


I watch very carefully and usually re-watch on Synergy. EVERY team has some plays or PnRs that end up as isos. There's nothing unusual at all about that.
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Re: You can blame Lebron, but you can't beat the zone with I 

Post#15 » by Heat_team02 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:20 pm

If James Jones and Mike Miller were both playing & they both took at least (4) 3 point attempts, this series would be over by now.
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Re: You can blame Lebron, but you can't beat the zone with I 

Post#16 » by mopper8 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:44 pm

We scored 116 points per 100 possessions last night (which would've been good enough for best efficiency in the league in the regular season), with 25 assists on 37 made baskets. The ball was moving and we were getting open layups against the Dallas zone.

Of all the times to be complaining about this stuff, today seems like the exact wrong time. I think maybe the 13-19 from 3 dallas shot or the busted coverages resulting in open layups for the other team are what should be of concern.
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Re: You can blame Lebron, but you can't beat the zone with I 

Post#17 » by CablexDeadpool » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:45 pm

mopper8 wrote:We scored 116 points per 100 possessions last night (which would've been good enough for best efficiency in the league in the regular season), with 25 assists on 37 made baskets. The ball was moving and we were getting open layups against the Dallas zone.

Of all the times to be complaining about this stuff, today seems like the exact wrong time. I think maybe the 13-19 from 3 dallas shot or the busted coverages resulting in open layups for the other team are what should be of concern.


That's not normal for the Heat though and the extremely busted ass rotations weren't normal either.

It was a shoot out and the Heat loss cause that's not the game the Heat plays. Lebron only got 2 the line twice.That zone is killing him. Especially since he's the only playmaker the Heat got besides Wade so if you take the ball out of his hands, then you are screwed cause you got nobody else that can make the passes needed to execute against the zone.

So Mavs pretty much got it like this, "You can try to beat us with Wade but you not gonna beat us with Lebron and Wade."

And it's working cause without Lebron being Lebron the Heat are handicapped.

Heat do nothing but ISOs off of their screens and pick and role plays, some how they need to get Lebron on the move or quick post plays. Lebron being good as he is, got messed around and got a triple double but he still isn't being Lebron.
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Re: You can blame Lebron, but you can't beat the zone with I 

Post#18 » by DeeDub » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:15 pm

mopper8 wrote:We scored 116 points per 100 possessions last night (which would've been good enough for best efficiency in the league in the regular season), with 25 assists on 37 made baskets. The ball was moving and we were getting open layups against the Dallas zone.

Of all the times to be complaining about this stuff, today seems like the exact wrong time. I think maybe the 13-19 from 3 dallas shot or the busted coverages resulting in open layups for the other team are what should be of concern.



Not only that, but the percentage of our plays that are isos has been down over the last few games. During the regular season about 12% of our offensive possessions were categorized as iso by Synergy. That was "highish" but not near the highest in the league. Teams like the Lakers and OKC (other teams with players who can thrive on isos) were 14%+. The last few games against the Mavs the Heat has been down around 9%, which is pretty low.
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Re: You can blame Lebron, but you can't beat the zone with I 

Post#19 » by truthiness » Sat Jun 11, 2011 12:55 am

DeeDub wrote:Not only that, but the percentage of our plays that are isos has been down over the last few games. During the regular season about 12% of our offensive possessions were categorized as iso by Synergy. That was "highish" but not near the highest in the league. Teams like the Lakers and OKC (other teams with players who can thrive on isos) were 14%+. The last few games against the Mavs the Heat has been down around 9%, which is pretty low.


Which actually proves my point.
When the Mavs take away the ISO (and the P&R that inevitably leads to an ISO), the Heat are lost. They have no sets to run.
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Re: You can blame Lebron, but you can't beat the zone with I 

Post#20 » by SamFlow » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:07 am

Batman, Robin and the Butler need a distributing pg. A guy that will run the team the right way and not get intimidated by B, R and the B. Kind of like Rondo did up with boston. Laid low first year, and kept charging and playing right and now is the leader of that team.
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