Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

[Ruzious]

+1 on Morris, I'm close to putting him at #1 on my board for realistic 6th pick. Kanter will be gone, I think that Ernie will pass on Jonas and Walker.

Hey, as long as it means the end of Blatche, I'm fine with that.

Seriously, I'm finding that I don't have a particularly strong preference when it comes to this year's draft. I'm pretty much open to anything.

It won't mean the end of Blatche. I think Morris has to make it as a 3. He's a good player with a great attitude and high BBIQ.

[LyricalRico]

^ In that case, I'm open to everything EXCEPT Morris.

[sfam]

...

Facts.
We have a new owner coming into this second year who believes in a long term building draft model.
We have lots of young talent that have a ton of upside. We have assets that are not ripe.
We have the #1 pick hopeful star talent already on the team.
We found a very viable back up PG/SG late in the year.
We have a good cap number with only 1 player who really needs to get worked off of it.
There will be a new CBA that most likely will help us with that player and it will dictate what we do with Nick and every other player moving forward. You should know what the rules of the game will be before making any major decisions.
They added toughness in Booker, Seraphin and Crawford.
McGee IMO has to be given at least one more year. His upside it just to great.
Dray is similar but not as much upside but even an Odom would be awesome.
...

Maybe I'm just watching different games or something but never have I mistaken Blatche's talent level or impact as anything close to Odom's. "Even an Odom would be awesome" - well, yeah, I would like it if Blatche was good enough to be a key piece on a champioship team. But of we're gonna make that stretch, why not go all the way and say that, "Even a Big Ticket would be awesome"? Seriously, Blatche is never getting anywhere near Odom's impact.

Other than that, I like your cold water dousing on draft hype post.

[JonathanJoseph]

Maybe I'm just watching different games or something but never have I mistaken Blatche's talent level or impact as anything close to Odom's. "Even an Odom would be awesome" - well, yeah, I would like it if Blatche was good enough to be a key piece on a champioship team. But of we're gonna make that stretch, why not go all the way and say that, "Even a Big Ticket would be awesome"? Seriously, Blatche is never getting anywhere near Odom's impact.

Other than that, I like your cold water dousing on draft hype post.

He may never get his head on straight enough to realize it, but Blatche is easily as talented as Odom. In fact, there are very few players in the NBA with as much god-given physical talent as Blatche.

[sfam]

Maybe I'm just watching different games or something but never have I mistaken Blatche's talent level or impact as anything close to Odom's. "Even an Odom would be awesome" - well, yeah, I would like it if Blatche was good enough to be a key piece on a champioship team. But of we're gonna make that stretch, why not go all the way and say that, "Even a Big Ticket would be awesome"? Seriously, Blatche is never getting anywhere near Odom's impact.

Other than that, I like your cold water dousing on draft hype post.

He may never get his head on straight enough to realize it, but Blatche is easily as talented as Odom. In fact, there are very few players in the NBA with as much god-given physical talent as Blatche.

Agree with the first part of never getting his head on straight, and agree that Blatche physically has at least Odom level athletic potential (I never saw KG level talent). But this is sort of uninteresting to me because of the first part. There are TONS of great athletes in every draft who don't make it due to the mental game. In some sports like Tennis, pretty much the only difference in the top 100 players is mental. That Blatche has talent that could be realized in another universe -one where he wasn't out partying before gameday and instead ate right and prepared is irrelevant.

[theboomking]

Agree with you but... opportunities for high draft picks are critical - if they come around to often it means you're blowing them. There its definitely pressure on EG for this selection. That sort of makes me think he'll play it safe, which might mean no big trades up, but more likely trades moving down with the idea that the more selections, the more likely one really rocks.

That would be a terrible strategy. It's in line with the often proposed, and ill advised idea of using the NFL draft model for the NBA. If you want great players in the NBA, you don't draft a ton of players outside of the top 6, and hope that some stick. You move up, or leverage multiple assets to obtain one star player in a trade.

Also, Williams doesn't have to be a Wade, Kobe or Lebron for the pick to be a success. If Williams is a 1b to Wall's 1A, we would be great. Really a 2 to Wall's 1 would be more than fair value for McGee.

[closg00]

Per DX, Nikola Mirotic and Davis Bertans will withdraw from the draft on monday. There goes two draft-and-stash guys.

[forbes20]

I have been following the draft discussions from the shadows and the various mocks. I was looking over the mocks and some video footage on nbadraft.net and found one of the prospects very interesting and a new appreciation.

Let's play a game and compare a current prospect (Player A) vs a past prospect (Player B):

1) Measurables:
w/o / with/ weight/wings/ Reach/fat%/no step vert/ max/ bench/lane agility/3/4 sprint

Player A:
6' 6.5"/ 6' 7.75"/ 223/ 6' 11" /8' 7.5" / 8.4/ 31.5/ 37.5 /12/ 10.96 /3.17

Player B:
6' 6.25"/ 6' 7.5"/ 233/ 7' 0"/ 8' 9.5"/ 8.0/ 30.5 /33.5/ 7/ 11.40 /3.15

Player A is a touch taller, 10lbs lighter, has a higher no step vert, much higher max vert, bit stronger, and bit quicker lane agility, and 3/4 sprint about the same.

Player B's has a slightly longer wingspan and standing reach.

How about per 40 mins stats:

GP/ Min/ Pts/ FG/ FGA/ FG%/ 2Pt/ 2PtA/ 2P%/ 3Pt/ 3PtA/ 3P%/ FTM/ FTA/ FT%/ Off/ Def/ TOT/ Asts/ Stls/ Blks/ TOs/ PFs

Player A:
34/ 29.2/ 21.0/ 7.5/ 16.2/ 46.0/ 6.5/ 13.1/ 49.7/ 0.9/ 3.1/ 30.3/ 5.2/6.8/ 75.3/ 2.7/ 7.3/ 9.9/ 1.8/ 1.0/ 1.2/ 2.5/ 2.8

Player B:
35/ 36.4/ 24.4/ 8.7/ 19.2/ 5.3/ 6.9/ 14.0/ 49.6/ 1.8/ 5.2/ 33.7/ 5.3/ 7.5/ 70.6/ 3.2/ 7.8/ 11.0/ 2.4/ 1.7/ 0.9/ 2.4/ 2.4

So per 40 minutes:
Player A's ppg would be about the same is he took as many shots as B, FG% is the same, ft% is better, rebounds are almost the same, slightly more blocks, adn turnovers and fouls are the same

Player B's ppg is higherbut he averaged 3 more shots per game, 3p% is a little better, 1 rebound more per game, assists and steals are higher.

So you say,... well who are these guys that are so similiar in stature and production in the respective freshmen years?

Player A: Tobias Harris - freshmen - 18 yrs old
Player B: Carmelo Anthony - freshmen - 19 years old

I've seen various mocks have us taking Harris at 18 and I, like many of you, preferred the reports on Singleton, without ever really seeing him. So I watched the 1st video in the below link on Harris. Maybe subconsciencely it was the orange uniforms, or the arm sleeve, but after watching e video I immediately thought Harris mannerisms, moves, soft touch, off the glasses, etc... reminded me so much of Carmelo. I said, nah... Melo has to be taller, skinner, quicker, more explosive, better scorer... I mean, some of those were the negatives on Harris. Footspeed, explosiveness,... but they saw Harris does have a higher BB IQ. So I compared the two, adn they are almost identical measurements and stats from their freshmen year. Melo was a top 3 pick b/c won the championship with a stacked team, and had tons of hype. Harris was a top five recruit out of high school last year.

So watch the below video and let me know your thoughts on the above, the similarities stats, measurables, and game from the video.

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/tobias-harris


Trade Idea:
If we cannot move up, and Kanter is gone (I am not overly impressed), then I would trade down to 9 with the Bobcats (#6 for #9 and #19),
- take Niyomba at #9, Harris at #18, and Marshon Brooks at #19*.
- take DeAndre Liggins at #34

Next year:
pg: Wall/ Crawford
sg: Young/ Brooks#19/ Liggins#34
sf: Lewis/ Harris#18/ (Booker)
pf: Blatche/ Booker/ Biyomba#9
c: McGee/ Seraphin/ (Biyomba)

That is a crazy young team of athletes, with a ton of deep talents at all positions. When Lewis gets hurt, Harris and Booker can split the sf.
*(watch the video on nbadraft.net of Brooks,... his game and manerisms look just like a young kobe bryant,.. he dropped 55 on Gtown and 44 on Notre Dame. Dude is a scorer)

[popper]

I hope the new CBA will level the playing field. It pisses me off when teams like Miami sign multiple stars for millions less than their true market value in order to gain an unfair advantage. The Lakers and a few other teams are able to do the same thing. What's the point in rigging the system in this way- it just diminishes the fairness of NBA competition. I would rather see teams built on merit at true market value and see who is the best coached, developed, motivated, etc.

[7-Day Dray]

...

Facts.
We have a new owner coming into this second year who believes in a long term building draft model.
We have lots of young talent that have a ton of upside. We have assets that are not ripe.
We have the #1 pick hopeful star talent already on the team.
We found a very viable back up PG/SG late in the year.
We have a good cap number with only 1 player who really needs to get worked off of it.
There will be a new CBA that most likely will help us with that player and it will dictate what we do with Nick and every other player moving forward. You should know what the rules of the game will be before making any major decisions.
They added toughness in Booker, Seraphin and Crawford.
McGee IMO has to be given at least one more year. His upside it just to great.
Dray is similar but not as much upside but even an Odom would be awesome.
...

Maybe I'm just watching different games or something but never have I mistaken Blatche's talent level or impact as anything close to Odom's. "Even an Odom would be awesome" - well, yeah, I would like it if Blatche was good enough to be a key piece on a champioship team. But of we're gonna make that stretch, why not go all the way and say that, "Even a Big Ticket would be awesome"? Seriously, Blatche is never getting anywhere near Odom's impact.

Other than that, I like your cold water dousing on draft hype post.

You better be ready to eat crow when it does happen. Yeah, I said it.

[Dark Faze]

Williams or bust.

Btw: For those who don't know. PG's as the best players on their team just don't win chips. They just don't. Look at history. Even ridiculously amazing points like Chris and Deron don't even get outside of the 2nd round with deep and balanced teams.

And we think THIS front office is capable of slowly, patiently creating a real contender?

I'd rather just go all in and hope that Williams has a chance at being as good as Wall...and from what I've seen I really think he has the potential to be Walls batman, or a 1b at worst.

You think about putting that sort of talent by your point guard before anything else...depth is pointless. Teams with bad depth but star talent are going to hold your team up. Look at the Pacers...all the depth in the world but have a 6th seed ceiling. Why? Not EXPLOSIVE enough talent, just the best talent you can get from selecting between 6th and 15th over a 5 year period. There's hundreds of days available during the year in which your GM could randomly get a decent shooters or a veteran big like a Kurt Thomas. There's only ONE day a year in which your getting a young all-star...and that's in the lottery. In a situation where teams are hesitant to give us much for an unprotected 2012 first (because they know Wall will push us to another 6th/7th selection at best), while knowing the weakness of the PG position in general, along with its history, do we really want to miss a chance here?

Obviously a large part of the argument is that Williams may not fulfill that potential. I get it. Personally I don't see any evidence of it. People bring up defense but defense is not that much about lateral speed...its about effort and IQ. Do people really think Beasley is too slow footed to guard most SF's? That's just talk lifted from message boards. His foot speed isn't the issue..he is just dumb. He doesn't understand rotations and funneling players towards the help. Williams was one of the most efficient college basketball scorers I've ever seen...with great leadership and IQ.

[jivelikenice]

Maybe I'm just watching different games or something but never have I mistaken Blatche's talent level or impact as anything close to Odom's. "Even an Odom would be awesome" - well, yeah, I would like it if Blatche was good enough to be a key piece on a champioship team. But of we're gonna make that stretch, why not go all the way and say that, "Even a Big Ticket would be awesome"? Seriously, Blatche is never getting anywhere near Odom's impact.

Other than that, I like your cold water dousing on draft hype post.

He may never get his head on straight enough to realize it, but Blatche is easily as talented as Odom. In fact, there are very few players in the NBA with as much god-given physical talent as Blatche.

Odom has more range, better handles, higher bball IQ, and is a superior athlete.....Other than that they're equally talented....

[tontoz]

You better be ready to eat crow when it does happen. Yeah, I said it.

@ your avy. wtf

[7-Day Dray]

Maybe I'm just watching different games or something but never have I mistaken Blatche's talent level or impact as anything close to Odom's. "Even an Odom would be awesome" - well, yeah, I would like it if Blatche was good enough to be a key piece on a champioship team. But of we're gonna make that stretch, why not go all the way and say that, "Even a Big Ticket would be awesome"? Seriously, Blatche is never getting anywhere near Odom's impact.

Other than that, I like your cold water dousing on draft hype post.

He may never get his head on straight enough to realize it, but Blatche is easily as talented as Odom. In fact, there are very few players in the NBA with as much god-given physical talent as Blatche.

Odom has more range, better handles, higher bball IQ, and is a superior athlete.....Other than that they're equally talented....

When in shape, Dray is an All-Star talent. I think he has the best combination of size, post moves, handles, and J of any big man in the NBA, even though he didn't show it this year.

This is a BOLD prediction, I think if healthy, Dray will be an All-Star next season. Yeah, I said it, but I'll be ready to eat crow if he has another bad season.

[Dark Faze]

This years Odom was one of most versatile, if not THE most versatile bigs in the league. Almost 40% from deep, can legitimately play the SF position, can bring the ball up the court, a monster on the boards and holds the ball for 3 seconds tops before scoring or getting rid of it.

[7-Day Dray]

This years Odom was one of most versatile, if not THE most versatile bigs in the league. Almost 40% from deep, can legitimately play the SF position, can bring the ball up the court, a monster on the boards and holds the ball for 3 seconds tops before scoring or getting rid of it.

Dray is also very versatile. He can shoot, dribble, and slash, and when in shape, can actually defend, rebound, and block shots.

Dray handle probably isn't as tight as Odom's, but I've seen him bring the ball up the court plenty of times and take it coast-to-coast. And Dray has better size then Odom, and is a better post player.

I think Blatche can potentially be as good as Odom, if not better.

[WizarDynasty]

For those who are intent on getting Derrick Williams--a scoring small forward that won't make an impact defensively, you should realize that marcus morris basically gives you the same thing without giving up nearly as much in assets.
If we are looking for a go to perimeter scorer----(that won't be able to stop his man on defense--but you surround him with the right players )Derrick Williams and Marcus Morris.

If we want a 6th man bench player that keeps the offensive skill level and rebounding intensity high after substitution Kanter

If we want a 3 and defensive--Vesely--Singleton--and then Leonard.

If you want a volume scorer--Jordan Hamilton.

IF you want a future Post toughness, and IQ, Nastiness, strength and size coming off the bench Tyler

If you want a finese soft big with size that can space the floor coming off the bench Vucevic

[sfam]

Maybe I'm just watching different games or something but never have I mistaken Blatche's talent level or impact as anything close to Odom's. "Even an Odom would be awesome" - well, yeah, I would like it if Blatche was good enough to be a key piece on a champioship team. But of we're gonna make that stretch, why not go all the way and say that, "Even a Big Ticket would be awesome"? Seriously, Blatche is never getting anywhere near Odom's impact.

Other than that, I like your cold water dousing on draft hype post.

You better be ready to eat crow when it does happen. Yeah, I said it.

Oh believe me, I'd love to eat crow on this. If Blatche turns into an All-Star I'd be thrilled beyond belief. I just tend to leave my fantasy stories to sword and sorcery movies and books.

[hands11]

+1 on Morris, I'm close to putting him at #1 on my board for realistic 6th pick. Kanter will be gone, I think that Ernie will pass on Jonas and Walker.

Keep the picks and use them on M Morris, Brooks and Tyler.

Considering that we have Booker and he played a lot of SF successfully to close the season, I think Morris is the perfect compliment to him since he has an outside shot. Booker has the added hops and athleticism that Morris may lack but Morris has the range and handles.

Wall, Crawford,
Nick, Crawford, Marshon-Brooks
Booker, M Morris
Dray, Lewis, Jeromy Tyler
McGee, Seraphin, Hamady

Extras: Jeffers, Owens, Mustafa

I wouldn't be upset at all if it went down like this.

That should be a pretty freakn talented team that you could modify to get better. All kinds of size and length. Two SG with 7 ft wing spans. Booker and Morris at SF is a lot of toughness and Morris adds the range. Wall and Craw at PG is nice. I like them separate better than together.
Then the following year you do something with Lewis and buy a FA to help in the post if needed. You move Dray if he doesn't work out. You could move Nick if Brooks is a stud.

I know I have been pulling for help at center but I would forgo that for now if we could get solid help at SF to go with Booker will adding two players who could end up with great upside in Brooks and Tyler. Both Brooks and Tyler are extremely long and show potential to be very good.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Marcus-Morris-5178/
I think he is a good compliment to Booker who still have upside but it may take a year more for his mid range game to come around. But even when it does, Morris has real longer range.

Crawford is better as a shooting PG anyway, so Brooks could play the pure SG. Nick with a brain. That could be an NBA star. http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Mar ... ooks-6347/

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jeremy-Tyler-1327/
I don't have a problem with this kid. He may have messed up but he seems to have matured. Really good interview.

[hands11]

...

Facts.
We have a new owner coming into this second year who believes in a long term building draft model.
We have lots of young talent that have a ton of upside. We have assets that are not ripe.
We have the #1 pick hopeful star talent already on the team.
We found a very viable back up PG/SG late in the year.
We have a good cap number with only 1 player who really needs to get worked off of it.
There will be a new CBA that most likely will help us with that player and it will dictate what we do with Nick and every other player moving forward. You should know what the rules of the game will be before making any major decisions.
They added toughness in Booker, Seraphin and Crawford.
McGee IMO has to be given at least one more year. His upside it just to great.
Dray is similar but not as much upside but even an Odom would be awesome.
...

Maybe I'm just watching different games or something but never have I mistaken Blatche's talent level or impact as anything close to Odom's. "Even an Odom would be awesome" - well, yeah, I would like it if Blatche was good enough to be a key piece on a champioship team. But of we're gonna make that stretch, why not go all the way and say that, "Even a Big Ticket would be awesome"? Seriously, Blatche is never getting anywhere near Odom's impact.

Other than that, I like your cold water dousing on draft hype post.

Not cold water, I just say use the picks and add the team without loosing talent that still has upside. Now is not the time to sell out. Dray can be moved later. Same with McGee if needed. I think both deserve another year. Year two under a new owner, with new teammates and their new #1 pick. Give Wall and the new owner a chance to have an effect before bailing on your investments that are still young and talented. Dray could still end up being a great trade asset or a solid back up PF. But for now, he is a viable starting PF on a rebuilding team. Load something up behind him and see what it brings out in him.

No reason to sell low right now.