Wade Finals PER = 40.25, rest of team = 44.74

[Bladers]

Wade is a MUCH, MUCH better Finals performer than Kobe...it's really not up for debate lol...

Kobe has had far better teams in his career, and has been a better regular season performer, and had more high scoring games, so casual fans of course don't compare the two.

Wade, in my mind, is the player I take if I want to win a Finals series...and it's not really debatable...

have a look at your quote down the bottom, obviously your a Kobe hater. Casual fans? do you mean fans that dont share your short sighted opinion? Im guessing your pushing 16 to right? Not debatable, what a uneducated short sighted thing to say.

Sorry, how am I a Kobe hater? By having his stats in the clutch in my sig? No, I'm just a realist that doesn't buy into the hype about certain players (LeBron/Kobe) being the most clutch when stats prove otherwise.

Sure, the sample size is small ("only" 2 Finals"), but both of Wade's 2 Finals series were better than any 2 of Kobe's 7 Finals series...you can literally pick 2 of any of the 7 he was in, and they won't compare to Wade's. That's what I mean, and Kobe haters and Kobe fans alike can agree with this.

What part of Wade has played the worst team in the finals in the last decade don't you understand?
Mavs are not a good defensive team. Kobe in the finals went against Goat defenses.
Wade gets to play against the MAVS twice! Prime Kobe scored 62 points in three quarters against them. Prime kobe averaged 40 pts against them in the reg season!

Look what happened when Wade faced a defensive power house Kobe is use to facing in the finals.
He averages 18 pts on 40% shooting plus 5tovs!

[Doctor MJ]

Mavs are not a good defensive team. Kobe in the finals went against Goat defenses.
Wade gets to play against the MAVS twice! Prime Kobe scored 62 points in three quarters against them. Prime kobe averaged 40 pts against them in the reg season!

Look what happened when Wade faced a defensive power house Kobe is use to facing in the finals.
He averages 18 pts on 40% shooting plus 5tovs!

Actually both Mav teams were good on defense. The notion that they aren't is largely just based on the idea that a team with only Dirk as star must be terrible on defense, but it's simply untrue.

Now, you can argue that Wade has faced weaker Finals defenses than Kobe, but if you adjust for that quantitatively it's pretty hard to imagine it would even come close to removing Wade's edge.

Re: How Kobe did against Dallas in '06.

Kobe destroyed teams by making shots. Shots that he could hit against anybody, but the vast majority of the time, he didn't, and he didn't become any more likely to do in the playoffs. It's not at all the same as Wade's approach.

[Doctor MJ]

Kobe's numbers may be deflated a bit because he's actually used to the NBA finals, and didn't need Shaq/LBJ-Bosh to get there the two years he actually made it.

Shaq in '06 wasn't anywhere near as valuable as peak Gasol. To act like that Shaq was at all the same as he had been during the 3-peat is absurd. Just for some perspective: Peak Shaq's Win Shares 18.6 in '99-00, it went down to 6.2 in '05-06 and then he got noticeably worse come playoff time. Shaq was literally well less than half the player he'd been at peak.

[CodyB_]

Never has Kobe or Jordan EVER face a defensive type team as the MAVS!
The mavs are the worst defensive team to play in the finals since the last two decades!

The Mavs are the best defensive team in the league.

[Base]

Sorry, how am I a Kobe hater? By having his stats in the clutch in my sig? No, I'm just a realist that doesn't buy into the hype about certain players (LeBron/Kobe) being the most clutch when stats prove otherwise.

Sure, the sample size is small ("only" 2 Finals"), but both of Wade's 2 Finals series were better than any 2 of Kobe's 7 Finals series...you can literally pick 2 of any of the 7 he was in, and they won't compare to
Wade's. That's what I mean, and Kobe haters and Kobe fans alike can agree with this.

Not to say that I don't agree, and obviously, I am a Lakers fan, but 82games.com says that Kobe is the most clutch player this past year http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM. Of course there are other ways of defining clutch as you say ESPN put up the "clutch stats" report a few days ago. Under those conditions, Wade shot the lowest percentage among Bryant, James and himself.

[Wavy Q]

What a predictable direction this thread has turned.

[CelticPacer]

The question is...last year was Kobe even the best player on his team? Personally I thought Finals MVP should've gone to Gasol

[Hon-essim]

It's all well and good but Wade still has to win this series. Now that he has Lebron and Bosh, no one will give him much of a pass in the upcoming seasons for being the man regardless if he does take over the Finals.

The only reason he has this status is because Bosh and Lebron are playing below disappointments but right here, right now it's where he cements his legacy as the difference between a Wade who coat tailed from phantom calls or a Wade that's a legitimate Finals monster and even though I'd give Wade what he did in his first championship, I think even Wade fans can't deny he isn't as dominating the game as he was during that time and that has allowed Dallas to actually steal games from the Heat when Wade is supposed to prove that every game should be a war based on his performance.

[youngcrev]

Damn, all it takes is 4 strong games, and you jump from being called "D-Whistle" and being made fun of, to being the best guard since Jordan.
RealGM...where this happens.

I prefer "D-Wheelchair"

[Happyfoosball]

Yeah Wades been a beast. It's a shame his Robin won't show up.

[Happyfoosball]

Kobe's numbers may be deflated a bit because he's actually used to the NBA finals, and didn't need Shaq/LBJ-Bosh to get there the two years he actually made it.

Shaq in '06 wasn't anywhere near as valuable as peak Gasol. To act like that Shaq was at all the same as he had been during the 3-peat is absurd. Just for some perspective: Peak Shaq's Win Shares 18.6 in '99-00, it went down to 6.2 in '05-06 and then he got noticeably worse come playoff time. Shaq was literally well less than half the player he'd been at peak.

I kind of disagree with this statement. Shaq was pretty valuable at that time. He wasn't "the man" in the finals. He was "the man" in the conference finals. But Gasol wasn't "the man" either. Kobe was.

[Showtime:Part2]

If the Heat win, Kobe Vs Wade becomes an argument. Thats two rings that he won on his own as the best player on the team just like Kobe. And if the Heat win multiple titles as expected its going to be close. I mean Ive always felt like those two have been very very close. But even Kobe hasnt dominated in the finals like this.

wade played the mavs in both finals. kobe played one of the greatest defenses of all time last year. orlando was a better defensive team than dallas too (dwight guarding the paint and guys like pietrus sticking to kobe).

[Showtime:Part2]

Kobe's numbers may be deflated a bit because he's actually used to the NBA finals, and didn't need Shaq/LBJ-Bosh to get there the two years he actually made it.

Shaq in '06 wasn't anywhere near as valuable as peak Gasol.

and here i thought you were a good poster.

[NoMoreThrees]

Kobe > Wade. Always will be. You start a franchise you take rookie Kobe over rookie Wade every time. PER is also a really dumb stat. Kobe is up in years and Wade is taking over the top sg in the league discussion but he will never ever be better than Kobe career wise. Never.

[Happyfoosball]

Kobe > Wade. Always will be. You start a franchise you take rookie Kobe over rookie Wade every time. PER is also a really dumb stat. Kobe is up in years and Wade is taking over the top sg in the league discussion but he will never ever be better than Kobe career wise. Never.

Ignorant statement. Wade is a great player. He is on prime Kobe's level. Kobe could do some things better, but Wade can do some things better then Kobe too.

[Showtime:Part2]

Kobe > Wade. Always will be. You start a franchise you take rookie Kobe over rookie Wade every time. PER is also a really dumb stat. Kobe is up in years and Wade is taking over the top sg in the league discussion but he will never ever be better than Kobe career wise. Never.

Ignorant statement. Wade is a great player. He is on prime Kobe's level. Kobe could do some things better, but Wade can do some things better then Kobe too.

the only thing better about wade is his shot selection. don't even give me passing... the whole heat offense is just iso wade at the top of the key and have him drive and kick or drive and shoot. that's xbox basketball.

[Vince Strong]

after the Bulls series Wade was "declining", LeBron has to carry the team, Wade was choking, etc.

5 games later he's better than Kobe.

LOVE this place. Love it.

[Ballamy]

Do you think he can maintain a 40.00+ break his own Finals PER record of 33.8 by the end of the series?

That 33.8 PER is his own NBA Finals record !!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2 ... ormances-1

Wade = NBA Fnals BEAST and Jordanesque in the Finals and playoffs. Wade was firmly in the Top 10 in NBA history for "career" playoff PER (and he was in the Top 10 for career PER "BEFORE" this playoff run)

And look where Wade is currently in the playoffs, he's always one of the leaders:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinge ... ontype%3d3

and then look at Wade's PER after the first 2 rounds of this playoff run, he led the entire league with a Jordanesque PER of 30:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showth ... p?t=222553

Wade = Playoff BEAST !!! He's going to have Jordanesque performances in Games 6 and 7, Just watch ! you're sadly mistaken if you think he's going to allow another team to come into Wade County, on his home floor, in his house, to claim an NBA Title. That is not happening in his house.

Here's Last year, and the last time Wade was facing elimination on his home floor (46 points on a ridiculous 65% shooting !!!!):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msuyaf9V5Zc[/youtube]

^ 46 points on a ridiculous 65% shooting !!!!

[Happyfoosball]

Kobe > Wade. Always will be. You start a franchise you take rookie Kobe over rookie Wade every time. PER is also a really dumb stat. Kobe is up in years and Wade is taking over the top sg in the league discussion but he will never ever be better than Kobe career wise. Never.

Ignorant statement. Wade is a great player. He is on prime Kobe's level. Kobe could do some things better, but Wade can do some things better then Kobe too.

the only thing better about wade is his shot selection. don't even give me passing... the whole heat offense is just iso wade at the top of the key and have him drive and kick or drive and shoot. that's xbox basketball.

I disagree but whatever. I think Wade is a better slasher then Kobe ever was. On the flip side I think Kobe is a better shooter (especially from 3) then Wade will ever hope to be. I think they are two very comparable players, who rely on different things. I enjoyed watching them both in their primes. Both so talented.

[Chosen01]

You've done it now, I don't get why some people are so insecure about the debate about Wade vs Kobe, these two will end being 2 of best SGs OF ALL TIME.Stop acting like Wade isn't on Kobe's level, Kobe has had a better career than Wade and will probably continue to better because of the age disparity but their peak and prime numbers are head to head, lets not act like one is another level from the other.

I'm not sure how people get the notion that Mavs are the knicks or something, both Mavs were/are great defensive team/s, this Mavs teams plays zone better than anyone in the league and that happens to be part of Heat's weaknesses and Wade is still picking it apart.The 06 mavs were the 8th defensive team in the league.

People who bring up the Chicago series, anyone with eyes could see that Wade was fatigued,people thought he was declining but he was pretty obvious that he was tired,I mean look at this series and the Chicago series, Wade is pretty much everywhere in this series with blocks,steals,dunks, while the Chicago series he was usually slowly trotting down the court and could barely blow past his defenders, he didn't have his legs but that didn't stop him from delivering in the clutch.Or are people forgetting that Wade dominated the same structured defense in Celtics who had basically the same D rtg as the Bulls?i thinks that proof that Wade was tired from chasing Ray Allen the whole series while having to dominate on the offensive end.

Wade hasn't played as GREAT defensive teams as Kobe, but they were still great, if you look at all the teams Wade has played in the playoffs through his career you'll see that he performed better against the greater defensive teams.One instance being last year where Wade totally destroyed the Celtics despite being double and triple teamed along with a 2nd all nba defender in Tony Allen guarding him and where Kobe played sub par against them despite having a much better team.