Kanter vs Biyombo

eLo · Post #1 » by **eLo** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:50 pm

Ok and what do you think, both players got some solid skills, Kanter is much about offens and Biyombo same thing but on different side of a floor.

Few weeks ago i was almost sure of picking Kanter from all those "bigs" in this year draft, but now im not so sure as ok Bismack is very row in offense, but he is one heck of an athlete, great in def and i heard that his work ethic is tremendous.

For a low post guy i think is much easier to learn how to score than how to be good defender, thats why for now i think that picking Byiombo is a little bit better choice, but both of them have different skill set that could be very useful for Jazz right away, and quite frankly i cant determinate which of those youngsters would satisfied needs of our Club better.

carrottop12 · Post #2 » by **carrottop12** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 9:34 pm

I'm really not sure how good of a defensive player biyombo is. I know he can block shots, that's about it. He doesn't box out, his fundamentals are poor, and I question his knowledge of the game.

He also has a fatal flaw that I am not sure exists in kanter's game. Bad hands. Biyombo's bad hands will likely prevent him from ever being ambigmtime offensive player, and when it comes to rebounding in the pro's, bad hands will make it far more difficult to secure rebounds in traffic.

reapaman · Post #3 » by **reapaman** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:46 pm

Well last year we scored almost 100 pts per game yet gave up more than that so we surely need defense and rebounding as well, both of which I'm more confident that Biyombo can provide. Biyombo looks like a pretty good man to man defender as well. He has extremely impressive physical tool and all the intangibles (great work ethic, energetic, leadership, ect...) you want from a good big man.

BTW "Bad hands" means nothing, its just a fundamental issue that can be taught over time. People said amare had bad hands before he was drafted and he has done fine so far I would say. There tons of players from deandre Jordan to Noah, Arron Gray, the "great" Mike sweetney ect.. who get rated as having excellent and soft hands but don't exactly light it up (or someone like Bargs who has soft hands and can't rebound). Biyombo just has to improve his basic fundamentals and he will be fine. Plus nothing stopped him from being one of the most productive players in the second best league in the world. He wil be fine.

retiredcoach · Post #4 » by **retiredcoach** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:27 pm

Biyombo is an offensive project with limited offensive upside. There's no question. However, he's a defensive killing machine. As far as blocking out goes, right now he just grabs rebounds right over the top of other defenders. When his positioning and footwork get better, wow!

Kanter is the opposite of Biyombo in the sense that he's going to be an offensive machine with little defense. He may learn to play defense. But right now he's in for a surprise.

Both these guys were used to playing with people they can dominate physically so they didn't need technical skills. That's about to change. Which one can learn faster is anyone's guess. Both can help a team while they learn, which is a really big plus.

In addition, both of these players have the physical attributes that are hard to find in the NBA and rarely can be traded for. That's why they'll both be hard to pass up in the draft.

kamazilla · Post #5 » by **kamazilla** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 1:39 am

Specifically for the Jazz as currently constituted, Biyombo would clearly be a more impactful presence as everything Kanter offers is duplicative of players already on the roster. Kanter, however, offers better general value for the third pick.

carrottop12 · Post #6 » by **carrottop12** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:25 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgNY0cFr1JM[/youtube]

Chad Ford wrote:Surveyed a lot of NBA teams about where Biyombo & Motiejunas projected to go. Both appear to be in 10-20 range.

According to Ford, the Jazz would have one of the first cracks at either of these guys.

Milwaukee doesn't seem like a fit for Biyombo since they just picked up Larry Sanders last year and already have Bogut, Golden State could really make a lot of sense though if they are looking to become a defensive team the way Mark Jackson is claiming. He could come in wanting to make a splash in the draft by bringing in a name that is going to generate a lot of talk about the new look Warriors.

Jazzfan12 · Post #7 » by **Jazzfan12** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:10 am

But the Warriors have Udoh.

retiredcoach · Post #8 » by **retiredcoach** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 5:27 am

Just read a summary at HoopsWorld on the best defensive players in the draft.

http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=20077

Xsy · Post #9 » by **Xsy** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:12 am

Biyombo's offense is abysmal. Just watching him shoot free throws makes me want to cringe.

He's not worthy of a #3 pick. If Utah takes Knight at 3, I'd be okay with him at 12.

retiredcoach · Post #10 » by **retiredcoach** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:33 pm

by MacheteConfetti on Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:12 pm
Biyombo's offense is abysmal. Just watching him shoot free throws makes me want to cringe.

He's not worthy of a #3 pick. If Utah takes Knight at 3, I'd be okay with him at 12.

Of course he's not worth a 3 pick. How about trading down for an SG, and then taking BIyombo with a one pick and maybe Kawhi Leonard with the other. That would improve the defense instantly in the paint and on the wing, as well as the offense from the SG.

With Hayward shooting more 3's and maybe being the first or second scoring option, with Jefferson, Millsap and Favors next, the Jazz can generate a lot of scoring. If they can reduce their opponents scoring by 1.5 to 2.5 pts a game and increase their defensive rebounding per game average by five, they're back in the playoffs.

Fido · Post #11 » by **Fido** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 10:13 pm

With his only reliable shot being a dunk and sporting a terrible free throw %, he can't be on the floor late in the game. He would get fouled every time he touched the ball. Maybe teams could just leave him on their defensive half of the floor. :lol:

erudite23 · Post #12 » by **erudite23** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:14 am

Bat wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgNY0cFr1JM[/youtube]

Chad Ford wrote:Surveyed a lot of NBA teams about where Biyombo & Motiejunas projected to go. Both appear to be in 10-20 range.

According to Ford, the Jazz would have one of the first cracks at either of these guys.

Milwaukee doesn't seem like a fit for Biyombo since they just picked up Larry Sanders last year and already have Bogut, Golden State could really make a lot of sense though if they are looking to become a defensive team the way Mark Jackson is claiming. He could come in wanting to make a splash in the draft by bringing in a name that is going to generate a lot of talk about the new look Warriors.

I <3 his body. Its an absolute thing of beauty.

That said, there is no question that he's too far away to be taking in the top 10. Everyone likes to complain that Kanter won't be able to score over NBA bigs like he does versus International youths and high schoolers. Well, Biyombo can't score like that in an empty gym. I would be shocked if he ever averages over 10ppg in the pros. I like him a lot, but he's nowhere near the player that Kanter is right now, and while his defensive ability is appealing, its hard to make things work with one of your top players being so limited offensively. Kanter wins this easily, but if we're talking Kanter @ 3 versus Biyombo @ 12, this debate is definitely worth having.

retiredcoach · Post #13 » by **retiredcoach** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:08 am

by erudite23 on Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:14 pm

while his defensive ability is appealing, its hard to make things work with one of your top players being so limited offensively.

Dite--let's not forget Mark Eaton. His defense put the Jazz on the map. He only scored an average of 6 pts a game in 25 to 30 mins a night. Biyombo will have the same kind of offense. He'll improve his free throw shooting to between 60% and 70%, which will get him 4 or more pts a game right there. He'll pick up a few dunks and put backs and he's got offense.

Not everyone has to be a great scorer for the Jazz to win. Blocks, stops, and forced misses add up.

carrottop12 · Post #14 » by **carrottop12** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:26 am

I don't think you need to look any farther than Tyson Chandler as an example of a guy with bad hands, no offensive skills, and still starting on a contending team. Having a guy who just focuses on defense is valuable.

Just depends on whether or not he has the skills defensively, and on the boards to really earn his place.

Fido · Post #15 » by **Fido** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:53 am

Well, the Mavs didn't build around Chandler. They had a contending team and picked him up to complement the guys he plays with. I don't think you can build a team with Biyombo as a big contributor. If they get someone good at #3 and want to take a chance on him at #12 fine--but I'm not all that hopeful after seeing this absolutely confirm how weak his weaknesses really are.

carrottop12 · Post #16 » by **carrottop12** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:01 am

I agree. It took Chandler a long time to learn how to be this player.

If I had to bet on it, I'd bet Biyombo never makes it past his first contract. To be able to stay in the league despite only being able to play on one side of the ball, you have to be seriously elite on the other side. The guys who are as raw as Biyombo offensively who stick around are few and far between and guys who have played college with insane length and athleticism seem to come and go every couple of years.

It is always appetizing to get these guys because if they hit, you can become a contender in no time.

The problems is they almost never make it, and in a draft like this, if Biyombo was a sure thing to be that guy, he'd be a consensus top 5 pick.

I'd be fine with the Jazz picking him at 12, I certainly wouldn't freak, he'd be interesting to watch, but I would worry about other guys they would have left on the board.

retiredcoach · Post #17 » by **retiredcoach** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:19 am

No one would think of building a team around Biyombo.

The Jazz have the pieces for a good team. They just need complimentary players and an SG.

hoops4life · Post #18 » by **hoops4life** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:55 am

I'd like to know who are the three that voted for Biyombo.

I agree with Bat, he won't most likely won't get a 2nd contract and IF he does it will be for next to nothing.

carrottop12 · Post #19 » by **carrottop12** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:15 am

He really has D-League superstar written all over him.

If Thabeet couldn't make it despite having much better size, and having sustained top level college experience, I just don't have a lot of faith in Biyombo.

Post #20 » by **StocktonShorts** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:08 am

Bat wrote:He really has D-League superstar written all over him.

If Thabeet couldn't make it despite having much better size, and having sustained top level college experience, I just don't have a lot of faith in Biyombo.

Oh god. Thabeet. You just scared me away from Biyombo with ONE WORD. Seriously.

Who would be better for Jazz