Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

[TGW]

I wonder if Jonas' vertical has ever been measured. The guy probably has a 15 inch vertical. So floor-bound it's not even funny. With that being said, I'd take him over Biyombo lol.

[Wizardspride]

IF we trade Javale (and I'm not advocating it) I'd prefer we draft Kanter.

IMO, Derrick Williams' ceiling is a slightly more athletic Antawn Jamison. Not there's anything wrong with that.

But thats not the kind of player I'm giving up multiple picks and a young center to acquire.

[hands11]

...Last year he was recovering from a foot injury and lots of other injuries all year and he still posted decent numbers. First year he was shot. Kid is lucky to be alive. 3-4 coaches with EFJ being one of them. The Gil thing. Blown up team. New owner.

What is so hard to understand ? Give the kid a second year under this new ownership and new group of young players with a new direction. Give him a chance to come into camp healthy. He fits this new team way better then he fit the old team.

I generally hate most republican talking points, but at some point personal responsibility has to come into the mix. I kinda think 6 years is more than long enough for that to occur.

...There is zero reason for this team to sell low right now. And it makes no sense to create a void when you have a talented young player who has already shown he can start at that position. Just add more young talent and let them compete. This team is two years away anyway.

That's a good point. It does assume that his value will increase though. It also assumes he won't disrupt the team learning - something I also have doubts about. If we're halfway through the year and Dray is still out of shape doing his thing (partying instead of preparing), I'd really hope they do their best to dump him before the trade deadline. I mean really, if you're right, this offseason should be a magical time of learning, and we should see the fruits of this early on.

Would you agree that we should know if Blatche has turned the corner by the trade deadline?

That all depending on if they are actually playing.

But that aside, I would hope they get together and practice anyway. And I would hope we start getting some news on all the young players regarding what they are up to. Wall, Booker, Seraphin, Dray, McGee, etc.

The 7DD summer, we heard about it during the summer. He didn't just show up like that.

[hands11]

Hands,

You can't defend homerism (or any position) by spewing out mass quantities of redundant/irrelevant thoughts.

You like Blatche, that's fine......but after 6 years it's easy to sum a guy up. Despite his talent, he has a poor work ethic, and a low basketball (and real-life) IQ.

I posted the details of his experience in the NBA. Those are not irrelevant thoughts. Those are facts.

And I am not defending him. I am saying it would be stupid to move that asset right now.

[TGW]

Hands, I can honestly count at least 5 in the past 10-12 years or so. Blatche simply is not a good player. Fine...if you believe he'll improve his value then we can keep him until then. But as of now, he's on a thin leash with this team. One more incident in the club, arrest, argument with a teammate or staff - I mean anything that's even remotely negative - and that ass is grass. I don't care about his salary or skillset-he's done in my book.

[hands11]

The people who want to dump Blatche mainly want to do it a) to sate their own wrath over his constant underachievement and b) because it's possible his lazy play hurts the effort level of other players (this seemed to happen with McGee on several occasions).

I'm in the rehab-and-ship-out-for-value camp myself, though I'm definitely open to Blatche changing my mind by caring more about the game and his teammates than clubbing.


Edit: If we're going to keep Blatche, btw, we MUST invest in a veteran big who will put him in his place, ala James Singleton.

But what is funny is the inconsistent logic I see some on here tossing about.

On one hand they say, a player is accountable for himself. The environment of this team via owner, coaches, and players, poor leaderships, guns, etc should have no effect.

And out of the other side of their mouths, we need to get ride of Dray because he will effect other young players on the team.

Well Wall, Craw, Booker, Lewis, Jeffers, and even the new Nick are not letting anyone lead then astray. And I would say the same about Morris, Brooks and Harris is we get them. So who are we talking about Dray influencing. McGee ? Hamady ? Seraphin ?

If anything was a problem it was Gil being the star of the team and being a flake. That I would say influenced a young kid Dray more than anything. Gil is gone. This team can handle keeping Dray even if he stay a little knuckheaded. He is not the star. Wall is. But I suspected even better than that. I say the more united maturing focus of this new team is what he will mold toward moving forward.

[hands11]

You absolutely know what type of player you have on your hands after 4 years, arguably 3.

Blatche has shown us 6.

He has the potential to put numbers, but he is not a winning big.

We do want to win right?

The fact that people continue to hold Blatche and McGee on the "potential" pedestal really amazes me. There are dozens of examples of how player growth tends to work in this league, and given history and stats of other players who have come and gone, along with having actually WATCHED these players for a while now it should be obvious that they are both guys that are not very good basketball players. Giving them starting positions just delays the inevitable.

And it would be bad enough if they were just not that good. They are dumb. They create a negative image of our team. Teams thing that Wizards have the lowest IQ in the league...and they are right.

I say we drop both of these fools.

Yes, there are dozens of examples of player growth in this league and every example ever says that 23 (McGee) and 24 (Blatche) is very premature for NBA big men. Your entire argument is based around that fallacy.

Dray will be 25 before the start of next season. Please give me a few examples of high school to NBA players who finally put it together when they turned after 25

Define finally putting it together. Does 17pts 8 rebounds 2 assists count ?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... der_by=pts

And of those top 5, Dray has played the least minutes by far of all of them. He has only gotten 20 MPG for the last 4 seasons. That is how I gauge his experience. Age and minutes. Say he is a 6 year player all you want. He is 24 and played 8600 total minutes. That is more like a 4 year player.

[hands11]

You absolutely know what type of player you have on your hands after 4 years, arguably 3.

Blatche has shown us 6.

He has the potential to put numbers, but he is not a winning big.

We do want to win right?

The fact that people continue to hold Blatche and McGee on the "potential" pedestal really amazes me. There are dozens of examples of how player growth tends to work in this league, and given history and stats of other players who have come and gone, along with having actually WATCHED these players for a while now it should be obvious that they are both guys that are not very good basketball players. Giving them starting positions just delays the inevitable.

And it would be bad enough if they were just not that good. They are dumb. They create a negative image of our team. Teams thing that Wizards have the lowest IQ in the league...and they are right.

I say we drop both of these fools.

Yes, there are dozens of examples of player growth in this league and every example ever says that 23 (McGee) and 24 (Blatche) is very premature for NBA big men. Your entire argument is based around that fallacy.

Dray will be 25 before the start of next season. Please give me a few examples of high school to NBA players who finally put it together when they turned after 25

DP

[Illuminaire]

But what is funny is the inconsistent logic I see some on here tossing about.

On one hand they say, a player is accountable for himself. The environment of this team via owner, coaches, and players, poor leaderships, guns, etc should have no effect.

And out of the other side of their mouths, we need to get ride of Dray because he will effect other young players on the team.

That's not necessarily inconsistent. Should is a different term than does.

Players should not let the immaturity or laziness of other players change how they prepare for or play basketball games. Players often do allow that to happen, unfortunately.

Because Blatche is a "veteran" on our team - and by his talk during the last season, wanted to be seen as a leader - he may indeed have some influence. He may not. It's an open question.

Anecdotally, it seemed like McGee played harder when Blatche wasn't in the game. That's a very subjective observation, though, and could very well be selective biases in action. But it could be true, too. Hopefully the front office is on top of this question and has a much clearer idea of how Blatche's attitude interacts with other players.


Addendum: Memphis is an excellent example of a positive influence. They were a team lacking an identity until Tony Allen beat the living crap out of OJ Mayo; after that, Allen really grew into an alpha dog and a leader the others respected. He played his heart out, and other Griz players played harder to match his intensity. (Battier too, of course)

Should that have been necessary? No. They were responsible for their own level of play and motivation.

Does that same personal responsibility mean management should ignore peer influence when making roster decisions? No. Clearly, bringing in Tony and Battier helped change team culture.

[hands11]

I happen to agree there is influence. Some player give it better than others and lead and some are susceptible to it more than other both good and bad. As such I think Gil was a terrible influence on the younger players like Nick and Dray. Not because he didn't work hard on his game but for all the other reasons. He was childish and a drama queen.

Well Gil is gone now. Dray naturally thought because of his time on this team and because of how he ended the year before that he would be a man scoring focus.

Last year was in no way a clean or ideal slate. Remember, Gil was here to start the year. Wall was a rookie. Kirk got a captain spot over Dray and he was a new member and not even a clear starter. Last years Wizards, I believe, started more different starting line ups than any team in the league. Players were coming and going all year. And Dray was injured.

http://espn.go.com/nba/team/stats/_/nam ... on-wizards
23 player rolled through here.

Now I think making excuses is one thing but this is just laying out the facts. This was anything but a clean slate to judge Dray by. Specially considering his foot injury and then the hip and whatever else he had injured.

And yet he still posted 17 and 8 in 34 minutes.

Next year would be a much cleaner slate. Wall in his second year as the team leader. Booker more established. Nick busted out last year...all year. Dray should be coming in to camp healthy and understand who will be on the team and what his role is. I say at least give the 24 year old 6-11 starting PF that opportunity. He has been through all the crap here of Gil, EFJ and multiple coaches, blown up team, etc.

At least lets see who he looks like in something that just might resemble something a little more normal and established as a group that is on the same page. That is all I'm saying. Add some more pure shooters so he doesn't force his shot. Add a slashing SF. Lets see what that looks like.

[jivelikenice]

Th injury excuse is tired. I totally understand it limited his preparation going into the season and he wasn't in the proper condition coming into camp, but he still had a gut all season long. That's reflective of discipline and he just doesn't have it.

[truwizfan4evr]

I would love tristan thompson he gonna be a sick player playing long side john wall . http://www.nbadraft.net/players/tristan-thompson

[tontoz]

Define finally putting it together. Does 17pts 8 rebounds 2 assists count ?

No, it doesn't. Blatche was 66th among power forwards in TS% and 37th among power forwards in rebounding rate. That sucks.

[Illuminaire]

Hands: I'm in the "lets be patient a little longer" camp (next season, really), so I agree with much of that. I just wouldn't turn down a positive trade offer if it came our way.

Tontoz: Don't forget that while Blatche's man defense was actually pretty good, he avoided rotating to help others like they'd slapped his momma.

Oh, the mixed bag that is Andray Blatche. *shakes head*

[doclinkin]

Uh, back to draft for a moment:

MarShon Brooks. I like that his mom is a WNBA referee. Distinct from McGee's momma who ought to have taught him how to rebound but instead filled his head that he's gonna be a superstar, a referee for a mom is bound to be a stickler for fundamentals and details and two-way play.

Okay now back to your regularly scheduled episodes of "Everybody Loves Snatch".

[gesa2]

She sure didn't teach him shot selection!

(I know, he was the only scorer on a bad team)

[theboomking]

Mike Prada breaks down a good argument on Bullets Forever about why he’d trade JaVale McGee for the No. 2 pick (Derrick Williams) straight up. I previously made a simple argument of why I wouldn’t do it, but certainly wouldn’t complain if it happened. However, from what I hear, such a deal was never really considered seriously, or even “on the table,” because when conversations headed in that direction, the Wizards were turned away at the door. Indications are that Minnesota has been fielding some very creative and interesting offers for the second pick — which make the rumor of the T-Wolves sending Johnny Flynn and the No. 2 to Toronto for DeMar DeRozan and the No. 5 laughable. Nonetheless, lotta days until draft time, folks, so plenty of time for more rumors to float, and plenty of time for David Kahn to play hardball.

http://www.truthaboutit.net/2011/06/sha ... more-16021

Wow, that makes it sound like we approached the Wolves about McGee and were rebuffed immediately. Everything with a grain of salt this year I guess. I'm also guessing that a lot of what we're hearing is out of the Timberwolve's camp trying to increase the value of the pick. Still, sounds like a trade is unlikely.

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

From DX...

Donatas Motiejunas put on a "brick show" during Eurocamp on Saturday, appearing uninterested as he missed shots from all over the floor.
Motiejunas has a reputation as "a lackadaisical shooter who can't rebound," but as a 7-footer with (normally) a soft touch, he is still a likely first-round pick.

Not that I was considering the guy, but I'd love to see tape of this and Bismack's latest workout side by side for giggles.

[doclinkin]

From DX...

Donatas Motiejunas put on a "brick show" during Eurocamp on Saturday, appearing uninterested as he missed shots from all over the floor.
Motiejunas has a reputation as "a lackadaisical shooter who can't rebound," but as a 7-footer with (normally) a soft touch, he is still a likely first-round pick.

Not that I was considering the guy, but I'd love to see tape of this and Bismack's latest workout side by side for giggles.

Here you go. Though Jon G was more interested in playing fanboy to various scoutsand front office types. Too much sideline footage.

Better footage here:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgNY0cFr1JM&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

[closg00]

From DX...

Donatas Motiejunas put on a "brick show" during Eurocamp on Saturday, appearing uninterested as he missed shots from all over the floor.
Motiejunas has a reputation as "a lackadaisical shooter who can't rebound," but as a 7-footer with (normally) a soft touch, he is still a likely first-round pick.

Not that I was considering the guy, but I'd love to see tape of this and Bismack's latest workout side by side for giggles.

Donatas shoots a pretty good % in-games and everyone already knows that B*tchsmack is defender/clean-up guy. I don't think these workouts are going to scare-off any teams.