The Thinking Behind the Unthinkable

Kurosawa · Post #1 » by **Kurosawa** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:33 pm

Trade Love

(and draft Williams, of course.)

First, let me emphasize that I am by no means sold on this approach. Kevin Love is the face of a franchise that is utterly faceless otherwise (at least, until Rubio proves that the reputation that precedes him is indeed justified) and is desperate for any sort of competitive and marketing foundation.

I think trading Love is open for debate, however, for reasons that, IMHO, are at least rational.

I'll try to keep this short with a bulleted summary:

1. The choice typically presented is between Williams and Beasley. That is, if you draft the former, you'll have to trade the latter. (Most wisely agree that moving Love to the 5 would be disastrous.) But Beasley's solid mid-range game makes him at least a serviceable 3, and Williams' game--amazing three-point shooting for a big, coupled with quickness that allows him to beat most 4's to the rim, where he either finishes or goes to the line at an astonishingly efficient rate)--is most advantageous at the 4. That happens to be Kevin Love's position, not Michael Beasley's.

2. How committed is Love to this franchise over the long haul? No one can answer that with certainty, but the guy wants to win and win soon. I don't get a strong sense of devotion to the franchise here.

3. Love is by far the Wolves' biggest asset--a young, white, double-double machine with name recognition and potent star-power potential. He's the one guy who could reap top-end talent in a trade, and not the sort of spare parts (a la JaVale McGee, Anderson Varejao, DeMar Derozan, et.al.) that have been bandied about in speculative trades for the second pick.

4. This franchise desperately needs top-end talent, not spare parts. With no lottery pick next year, the process of acquiring it will be delayed that much more. Right now--this moment--might be our last chance to take a quantum step forward.

Desperate situations require bold responses. Trade Love for a dynamic 2 plus picks.

phonzadellika · Post #2 » by **phonzadellika** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:49 pm

I've been waiting to see Rubio/Love for years now. Don't ruin it for me

[RCG] · Post #3 » by **[RCG]** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:16 pm

Not opposed to moving Love, but I'd have to be for the right deal.

Esohny · Post #4 » by **Esohny** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:22 pm

Which dynamic SG is available? Kobe isn't available and is on the decline, Eric Gordon isn't getting traded, especially not for a PF when Griffin is on the roster, Harden isn't worth Love and OKC isn't going to break up that core anyway. Joe Johnson is also on the decline and has a terrible contract. Wade isn't getting traded. Etc, etc, etc.

mandurugo · Post #5 » by **mandurugo** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:24 pm

Face of the one of the worst franchises in league history? I don't think it's a big deal, it's not like he's packing arenas to see the show, they can barely give tickets away. They should definitely thinking about trading him while he's on his rookie contract after getting an all-star berth, it seems likely this is one of the peak values of his career.

Post #6 » by **Worm Guts** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:30 pm

It depends on what you get back and how much you believe in Derrick Williams.

PeeDee · Post #7 » by **PeeDee** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:31 pm

I think it's more likely we could score a top 5 center for Love than a top SG. And considering everyone past the #1 center is iffy, it's prolly just better to keep Love.

senatorbobo · Post #8 » by **senatorbobo** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:46 pm

PeeDee wrote:I think it's more likely we could score a top 5 center for Love than a top SG. And considering everyone past the #1 center is iffy, it's prolly just better to keep Love.

It bums me out, but it's probably true. I've thought of the Wolves trading Love for a 2, just for the fact that he's our best asset, and we won't get as good a return on D. Williams. The problem is there really aren't any available 2's equal to Love's value, and like PeeDee said, the center route is risky. I think there are worse things that we could besides drafting and keeping Williams, making it work for a while and deciding later whether to trade Randolph, Love, or Williams. It might be heresy, but if Love helps land us a disgruntled superstar at the deadline, the team around whoever comes back in return could be pretty darn good in a fairly short amount of time.

EddyCool · Post #9 » by **EddyCool** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:47 pm

PeeDee wrote:I think it's more likely we could score a top 5 center for Love than a top SG. And considering everyone past the #1 center is iffy, it's prolly just better to keep Love.

This.

Any player that's good enough to make me consider this isn't going to be available.

karch34 · Post #10 » by **karch34** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:01 pm

Esohny beat me too it. It's not a terrible idea, but pretty much all options are unavailable, too old, or too expensive. Williams might not be a huge downgrade from Love, but we'd need a pretty significant upgrade at SG to make it worthwhile and I don't see it out there. Harden is maybe the only one that is a possibility, but I don't see a deal with Thunder that would bring fair value back.

eyeteeth · Post #11 » by **eyeteeth** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:32 pm

Bottom line, Love is an RFA after this year. Depending on the CBA we probably get him for 4-5 years more. If the team isn't winning pretty well by then, oh well what the hell, the problem ain't KLove.

Post #12 » by **C.lupus** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:48 pm

Kurosawa wrote:2. How committed is Love to this franchise over the long haul? No one can answer that with certainty, but the guy wants to win and win soon. I don't get a strong sense of devotion to the franchise here.

Not to call you out specifically Kurosawa but I hate this line of defeatist thinking. We hear it all the time. How committed is Love to the franchise? Who knows. How committed is Rubio to the franchise? How committed is Beasley to the franchise? How committed would Derek Williams be to the franchise? How committed would the star SG or C that we get for Love be? We could play this game all day. If you don't think any player will ever commit long-term to the franchise, well you might as well just sell the team and go play bingo. Players commit to teams that win and pay them.

Keep the proven 20/15 player and add a Bogut/Iggy level player using the #2 andanother asset.

NewWolvesOrder · Post #13 » by **NewWolvesOrder** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:58 pm

I could see Love being moved for a center like Bynum, Bogut or Hibbert. Let's say Love and Darko for Hibbert and Posey(filler), I'd even give up Flynn for Indy's TPE ( he may hold some appeal to them but is useless for us).

Kurosawa · Post #14 » by **Kurosawa** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:00 pm

It might be a pipe dream, but I'm thinking a three-way trade for Gordon--getting another team involved that wants Love and has a comparable talent at a position the Clippers need and is willing to part with.

But perhaps those of you who don't see a top-end 2 that's young and available are right. I personally would not trade Love for Bogut or Iggy.

NewWolvesOrder · Post #15 » by **NewWolvesOrder** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:25 pm

I would love to keep Kevin long term on the team but I'm just afraid that we'll have to pay more than he's worth for him to be happy to stay. After his outstanding numbers and ASG appearence he probably thinks that he should get a huge contract and I'm not sure he is worth it. If Kahn could resign him for Al Jefferson type contract then it's fine with me but if Love ia aiming at a max type of contract then I'm not sure about wanting him to stay. He doesn't have superstar impact on the game to make superstar money.

Post #16 » by **The J Rocka** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:43 pm

I wish we could get D12 in a package around Love.

flexbuffchest · Post #17 » by **flexbuffchest** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:13 pm

eyeteeth wrote:Bottom line, Love is an RFA after this year. Depending on the CBA we probably get him for 4-5 years more. If the team isn't winning pretty well by then, oh well what the hell, the problem ain't KLove.

Not if Love just signs the qualifying offer. If Love desperately wanted out he could be a UFA after the 12/13 season.

breatnach · Post #18 » by **breatnach** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:46 pm

Just off the top of my head:

MIN out: Love, Wes
MIN in: Gasol (S&T), Mayo

Shore up the 2 and 5, draft Williams for the 4

Rubio
Mayo
SCB
Williams
Gasol

OKC in: Love, Conley
OKC out: Westbrook, Aldrich

Conley
Harden
KD
Love
Perkins

Get PF they covet, but downgrade to (pass-first) PG, which is something they will most likely eventually do anyway.

MEM in: Westbrook, Aldrich, Wes
MEM out: Gasol, Conley, Mayo

Get best player in deal, while downgrading at the 5. Wes-Mayo is probably a wash and could be left out.

Can't run the numbers through the trade checker, since Gasol's contract ends, so not sure if this would really work financially (help, shrink!). I made a post about this on the trade board, I think we make good trading partners with OKC. Who declines?

Post #19 » by **The J Rocka** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:02 pm

Westbrook would only be traded if OKC could get CP3 or D12 for him. I doubt the Wolves move Love for Williams to takeover.

mandurugo · Post #20 » by **mandurugo** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:04 pm

breatnach wrote:OKC in: Love, Conley
OKC out: Westbrook, Aldrich

I think OKC declines this, but perhaps cut out Memphis and make it

OKC in: Love, Wes
OKC out: Harden, Ibaka

gives MN

Rubio
Harden
Beasley
Ibaka
Darko

With Randolph replacing Ibaka or Darko. I like defense, so I prefer this - but I think it is a better deal for OKC as well.