Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

[fishercob]

Remember derrick williams didn't not not dominate defensively at lower competition, .

I couldn't remember that if I tried.

[Ruzious]

Remember derrick williams didn't not not dominate defensively at lower competition, .

I couldn't remember that if I tried.

"didn't not not"... that belongs in the poetry thread.

Actually, Derrick Williams clinched 2 post season victories last season with amazing blocks. This guy is not a stiff on defense.

[LyricalRico]

Let's see - 6 comes before 7, right?

If Utah has their heart set on Jimmer, and the Kings are their only competition, we could potentially get the 3 for a song. Maybe simply taking Okur off their hands to help their cap situation.

[fishercob]

Let's see - 6 comes before 7, right?

If Utah has their heart set on Jimmer, and the Kings are their only competition, we could potentially get the 3 for a song. Maybe simply taking Okur off their hands to help their cap situation.

We don't have the cap room.

[jivelikenice]

How much room do we have this offseason if we rescind our qualifying offer to Nick Young?

[Ruzious]

Biyombo measured even better than before. 6'8.31 without shoes and 6'9.5 with. 245 lbs. 7'6.16" wingspan. 9'3.42" standing reach. 4.2% body fat. That is a body built to play basketball.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-dra ... os=0&sort=

[hands11]

I've posted this comparison a few times during the season, but I don't think I've done it since the year ended. It's informative to compare McGee to other long/thin/athletic centers and see how his progress stacks up.

Javale, Tyson Chandler, Marcus Camby

It would take a real cynic to look at these numbers and declare that Javale can never achieve what these guys have.

Through three seasons, Javale is in the mix -- almost as good, if not better -- than these other two in nearly every advanced stat category. Best PER, TS% eFG%, OReb%, Blk%, turnover rate, Offensive rating (by a wide margin!) win shares, WS/48.

The two areas where he lags behind significantly are assist% (he's a black hole) and defensive rating. A couple of reasons the DRtg may be so bad are (a) it's more of a team stat and the Wiz have been a terrible defensive team while Javale has been here and (b) perhaps he's really bad, worse than Camby and Chandler were at the same stage. For conservatism sake, let's assume it;s the latter.

Consider the fact that Chandler and Camby were both #2 overall picks, Camby on the heels of being national player of the year in college and leading UMass to a final four only to lose to a LOADED Ketucky team (Delk, A. Walker, McCarty, D. Anderson, R. Mercer, Mohammed,etc). Javale was the #18 pick -- where project bigs are taken -- and has produced like two "can't miss" level guys through three years.

It would be one thing if Javale produced at half these guys' level through three seasons and people were crowing about his upside. But jeez, how can you NOT be enamored of his upside? Yeah, he's got growing up to do and he has a ton to learn. But he's good enough that he's worth the wait and investment IMO.

Good point Fish.

You have to compare him with like. He is a tall, skinny, athletic center. I'm sure a thicker player would have been better defensively. Hell, McGee was still growing until last year.

Chandler had something to do with that win yesterday. He was pulling board late that made a difference.

I suspect McGee will come into this season stronger and hopefully with a better hook shot. If he can get that hook working, it would be unstoppable. That is a prospect I'm not sure I want to give up on just yet. He already is a freak with alley opps.

It's the complete brain fart plays that I think get people down on him.

[hands11]

I've asked Yoni Givony and Chad Ford on twitter to compare Seraphin to Biyombo and neither have responded. Suffice it to say, based on the info we have I see no reason for us to take Biyombo and know nothing that convinces me he'll be better than Seraphin. We'll see in four or five years.

Having Watched Biyombo play in the Nike Hoops Summit, and looking at his measurements, it's easy to say that Biyombo is taller, much longer, much more athletic, and a much better shot blocker than Seraphin. Biyombo appears to have a much higher ceiling in the NBA. I can't help but wonder if the fact that we didn't go to his workout means that we are interested.

Seraphin is very athletic. And he is 275.

Kid was just getting his start last year. He has great little baby hooks. He is going to be a lot better this next year. 6-9 275 and mobile is going to be hard to stop. He would break Biyombo in two.

[LyricalRico]

Let's see - 6 comes before 7, right?

If Utah has their heart set on Jimmer, and the Kings are their only competition, we could potentially get the 3 for a song. Maybe simply taking Okur off their hands to help their cap situation.

We don't have the cap room.

We didn't have true cap space with the Hinrich deal was agreed to last summer. But we weren't going into a lockout then. I guess that brings up a larger question - what will the league allow in the way of BOYD deals during this draft since nobody knows what the future cap will be?

[hands11]

New mock for DX; one big change is Jimmer rocketing up the draft boards.

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2011/

That is the value of being a pure shooter. Come playoff time, so much of the game relies on you having it.

I even had a combo of players that included him coming here at on point.

Yes we need more D but we but but we need to add some pure shooting to this team.

Nick alone is not enough.

[Dat2U]

I've asked Yoni Givony and Chad Ford on twitter to compare Seraphin to Biyombo and neither have responded. Suffice it to say, based on the info we have I see no reason for us to take Biyombo and know nothing that convinces me he'll be better than Seraphin. We'll see in four or five years.

Having Watched Biyombo play in the Nike Hoops Summit, and looking at his measurements, it's easy to say that Biyombo is taller, much longer, much more athletic, and a much better shot blocker than Seraphin. Biyombo appears to have a much higher ceiling in the NBA. I can't help but wonder if the fact that we didn't go to his workout means that we are interested.

Seraphin is very athletic. And he is 275.

Kid was just getting his start last year. He has great little baby hooks. He is going to be a lot better this next year. 6-9 275 and mobile is going to be hard to stop. H e would break Biyombo in two.

If we need a club bouncer or professional wrestler, Seraphin would be great. Not so much as a NBA basketball player.

Ji had it right. Seraphin would be a 2nd round pick in this draft based on everything we've seen. There's been no indication that he's a developing stud. The only thing he's got going for him is that he's only completed one NBA season so people want to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

I'm not sure about Biyombo but Seraphin's presence should have no impact in who we draft.

[Dark Faze]

Why do people act like a younger, slightly better version of Camby/Chandler as a comparison for McGee is a positive argument for keeping him?

Tyson had to be on a near perfectly assembled team, during a year in which the great veteran teams got too old and the young teams were still too young. Camby? He's never won a ring, and despite the fact that everyone talks so kindly about him he's never been a game changer and his stats are just okay.

Those are two guys who were traded multiple times.

But no use in arguing over this when it seems nothing is imminent.

[WizarDynasty]

Hate tpo break it to the haters but mcgee has already surpassed tyson and camby when it comes offensive post play. In other words u have yet to include in your analysis that mcgee is already a better offensive post player that at any point in tyson or camby's entire career including now.

[7-Day Dray]

Hate tpo break it to the haters but mcgee has already surpassed tyson and camby when it comes offensive post play. In other words u have yet to include in your analysis that mcgee is already a better offensive post player that at any point in tyson or camby's entire career including now.

Exactly. Some of the moves McGee pulls off I've NEVER seen Camby or Chandler do. He's WAY more skilled than people think. The word "raw" is thrown around too much when discussing him. He needs some polish, but he has more moves in his arsenal than a BUNCH of NBA bigs at any age. It doesn't hurt that he's a big-time athlete with decent face-up skills and he's physically gifted. If he finds a way to add muscle to his frame (which is as imposing as there is in the NBA) he will be an All-Star C in the NBA.

[7-Day Dray]

I've asked Yoni Givony and Chad Ford on twitter to compare Seraphin to Biyombo and neither have responded. Suffice it to say, based on the info we have I see no reason for us to take Biyombo and know nothing that convinces me he'll be better than Seraphin. We'll see in four or five years.

Having Watched Biyombo play in the Nike Hoops Summit, and looking at his measurements, it's easy to say that Biyombo is taller, much longer, much more athletic, and a much better shot blocker than Seraphin. Biyombo appears to have a much higher ceiling in the NBA. I can't help but wonder if the fact that we didn't go to his workout means that we are interested.

Seraphin is very athletic. And he is 275.

Kid was just getting his start last year. He has great little baby hooks. He is going to be a lot better this next year. 6-9 275 and mobile is going to be hard to stop. He would break Biyombo in two.

What I'm saying about Biyombo is from small sample size, but he's more athletic, better shot-blocker, and is more physically gifted. Seraphin is stronger, better offensive player, and has a better feel for the game. But both are as raw as sushi.

Seraphin needs to lose weight though. He was fat last year, and looked really slow (probably because all the extra weight).

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

He does sound interesting. I didn't realize he had the huge scoring outbursts
against quality teams in the Big East. That sounds to me like it oughta be top 10
material right there. Good size, does other things besides score.

He's a ball watcher and poacher though. Has some bad habits. Doesn't play a team game right now, plays a one-man-team game, trying to do everything all the time. He'll need to learn to play off the ball better, at both ends. Fortunately in interviews he comes off as somewhat self-aware. He may adjust.

I need to run the metas...

doc, speaking of metas, I thought about them with regard to some established athletes. What do Tiger Woods, Gilbert Arenas, Lebron James, and Dwyane Wade all have in common?

Seems to me Woods, Arenas, James and to a lesser extent Wade all took big PR hits and suffered personal upheaval this year. Metas have some commonality, too, don't they? (I could add Kirk Hinrich to that list and probably some others if I put thought to it).

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

He does sound interesting. I didn't realize he had the huge scoring outbursts
against quality teams in the Big East. That sounds to me like it oughta be top 10
material right there. Good size, does other things besides score.

He's a ball watcher and poacher though. Has some bad habits. Doesn't play a team game right now, plays a one-man-team game, trying to do everything all the time. He'll need to learn to play off the ball better, at both ends. Fortunately in interviews he comes off as somewhat self-aware. He may adjust.

I need to run the metas...

doc, speaking of metas, I thought about them with regard to some established athletes. What do Tiger Woods, Gilbert Arenas, Lebron James, and Dwyane Wade all have in common?

Seems to me Woods, Arenas, James and to a lesser extent Wade all took big PR hits and suffered personal upheaval this year. Metas have some commonality, too, don't they? (I could add Kirk Hinrich to that list and probably some others if I put thought to it).

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

Probably common knowledge to most around here, but we are finally working out Kanter this Friday in Chicago.

Luckily it appears JV is staying in the draft.... I'd be happy with either him or Kanter and if Jimmer continues his suspected rise into the top 10 forcing Utah to draft a guard in addition to JV staying in, we get one of the two.

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

Oh and per Michael Lee's twitter we're also trying out Singleton, Marcus Morris, and Tobias Harris on Tuesday. Not sure Singleton lasts til 18 anymore, but you never know I guess. Harris is more likely there.

[W. Unseld]

Am I the only one who immediately looked at the draft to see if any contender could add a piece to knock Miami out next year? I think "teams who could knock Miami out in 2012" needs its own thread.

Dat, Seraphin was a rookie with limited English and a pretty sweet baby hook. I don't think he has all world written all over him either but give him some credit.