Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

[theboomking]

From the Minnesota board:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39DSr0hCnjo&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

Lots of good videos on a lot of different prospects over there.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1117112

[jivelikenice]

This is good news. If it's true that Valanciunas is ranked ahead of Vesely, that's all we could really hope for. I assume that Kanter is ranked ahead of both of them, so basically, we're going to end up with Valanciunas or Kanter as long as Utah and Toronto go for PG's.

Is Valanciunas a player that can come in and contribute right away? My problem with this pick is he's going to have to compete with McGee, Blatche, Seraphin, Booker, & Lewis for PT. Will he be anything more than and 11th man and can we afford that with the 6th pick?

Another thing, isn't he more of a center? If he doesn't show PF skills then why take him if he won't effectively be able to play with McGee?

Why does he have to contribute right away? We're not trying to win a title next year. I don't even mind if he stays overseas for another year. Hell, I think I'd prefer it. He'd get another year of seasoning and we postpone the start of his rookie contract. Meanwhile, we give McGee and
Seraphin more time to develop.

Totally disagree with you. We're not trying to win a title next year but management has to get this team in position to improve.

1. We need to show John Wall that this team is making progress to keep him committed
2. If we don't improve, then its an indictment on our young core
3. If we want to be able to attract any big free agents in the future we have to be on the verge on contending

This roster is not talented enough where we can just toss away the 6th pick in the draft with no expectations of a contribution this year. We were the 4th worst team in the league last year; to say that the 6th pick shouldn't be expected to contribute just doesn't make sense to me. In addition to that, Valanciunas is a center and that's one of the few positions where we have a core player already on our roster (Mcgee) and and have another developmental prospect. You only draft this guy if he's significantly better than anyone else at the board and I don't think that's the case. McGee and Valanciunas can never compliment each other on the court. This team help at the wing and at PF. Whoever we draft doesn't have to be ready to start right away, but has to have a distinct skillset that can immediately transition. I think other prospects have that...

[Hoopalotta]

Is Valanciunas a player that can come in and contribute right away? My problem with this pick is he's going to have to compete with McGee, Blatche, Seraphin, Booker, & Lewis for PT. Will he be anything more than and 11th man and can we afford that with the 6th pick?

Another thing, isn't he more of a center? If he doesn't show PF skills then why take him if he won't effectively be able to play with McGee?

The only option to really overcome redundancy is to draft a small forward with any other choice running into this problem, especially if, like me, you expect Kanter to show to be a center and push the same issue. Someone will indeed be marginalized, but I don't see how we're escaping a Malthusian winnowing with seven picks over two years no matter what (or 9 over 3, for that matter).

Anyone who feels comfortable with the wing options at 6 can reconcile that alternative, but I'm just not enamored of those guys and, as a rule, young bigs are the most valuable of trade commodities in the league, so it's not like we're put out by having an excess. If Valanciunas develops as a player upon the production he's shown thus far, we've at least plucked up a prime asset either directly or indirectly (indirectly in that he might beat someone out whereby 'that guy' is the asset).

As to fit if we're made to make it work, we were 29th in defensive rebounding and rather lethargic overall with Valentine being the top rebounder in the second best league in the world at 18 year's old. If the guy can grab anything like 14% of available offensive boards and 31% of the defensive boards, we'll be well pleased.

He won't need but more than 20 minutes at the most in his first year and I'd say that we'd be able to play him and Javale together for at least 4-8 minutes without too much pain. That probably gets us through two years worth of minutes right there and it's the same fundamental issue as with Kanter.

Someone will get crimped, but Jonas likely doesn't come over next year and you defer that Malthus issue down the line a bit while developing Seraphin and Booker in the interim. That's either an insurmountable calamity that we can ill afford when weighed against the transcendent alternative of Kawhi Leonard having otherwise been in our 2011 rotation or an acceptable eventuality that at least helps our long term bookkeeping, depending upon who you query.

Ultimately, those issues are to me peripheral when weighed against the alternatives which are likewise hitched with blemishes. If I thought the wings available were comparable, I might reconsider, but Valentine stands out as the talent on the board in this here scenario.

Why does he have to contribute right away? We're not trying to win a title next year. I don't even mind if he stays overseas for another year. Hell, I think I'd prefer it. He'd get another year of seasoning and we postpone the start of his rookie contract. Meanwhile, we give McGee and
Seraphin more time to develop.

Totally disagree with you. We're not trying to win a title next year but management has to get this team in position to improve.

1. We need to show John Wall that this team is making progress to keep him committed
2. If we don't improve, then its an indictment on our young core
3. If we want to be able to attract any big free agents in the future we have to be on the verge on contending

This roster is not talented enough where we can just toss away the 6th pick in the draft with no expectations of a contribution this year. We were the 4th worst team in the league last year; to say that the 6th pick shouldn't be expected to contribute just doesn't make sense to me. In addition to that, Valanciunas is a center and that's one of the few positions where we have a core player already on our roster (Mcgee) and and have another developmental prospect. You only draft this guy if he's significantly better than anyone else at the board and I don't think that's the case. McGee and Valanciunas can never compliment each other on the court. This team help at the wing and at PF. Whoever we draft doesn't have to be ready to start right away, but has to have a distinct skillset that can immediately transition. I think other prospects have that...

I consider that all to be based on a one dimensional, draft-centric perspective that looks ill appropriate given the circumstances.

My view is that the absolute most pitifully ineffectual means of attempting to improve for next year would be through this draft. If the main avenue by which we're trying to add wins is with the 6th and 18th picks, we're most likely a smoldering T-72. We ain't balming Wall's frustrations with that shyte.

If we actually want to win next year, we should just leverage cap space to bring in veterans through either trades or free agency. Aside from maybe getting Derrick Williams, that would impress John Wall a lot more than whatever we're able to do with the 6th pick. Above all other positions, we can probably nail down some forwards that way too.

[doclinkin]

nate33 wrote:
This is good news. If it's true that Valanciunas is ranked ahead of Vesely, that's all we could really hope for. I assume that Kanter is ranked ahead of both of them, so basically, we're going to end up with Valanciunas or Kanter as long as Utah and Toronto go for PG's.

Actually I could easily see this scenario unfolding:

1. Irving to CLE. PG of the future.
2. Minny sees no deal they want, decides to pair a true Big with Kevin Love. Selects Kanter. (KAAAAHN!)
3. Utah giddy at their fortune waits <8 seconds to take DWillz. SF problem solved.
4. Cleveland still needs a Big, takes the Pick and Roll proficient Jonas to pair with Kyrie. Nice fit.
5. Toronto flips a coin and takes Kemba. Or Brandon. Or Kemba.
6. Czech mate.

[Dat2U]

If we miss out on Kanter, and do not deal McGee for Williams...

A scenario I've been mulling, and growing on me more and more is to deal Blatche to the Suns for Childress & 13. The Suns want to move Childress, and Blatche could be a good fit for them.

Then use the 6 & 13 on the Morris twins. They want to be drafted together. They both have starting talent, and they play well together. Wizards get fresh new start, and instantly are interesting and have a new identity.

Then follow with Vucevic at 18, and Nolan Smith at 34.

I haven't seen too many ideas that are worse than this one. Childress' contract is terrible and he's a poor fit on the perimeter with Wall with his inability to stretch the floor.

I don't see the starting talent when speaking on the Morris twins. Unless were talking about starting on the college level.

If ten/fifteen years ago the Collins twins were available and wanted to be drafted together would you really do everything possible to acquire both? Marcus, who I like more than Markieff has to shift to SF full time. That's not an easy move. Those two aren't sure bets to become anything other than marginal guys on rookie contracts. I hope this isn't the best we can hope for.

[Dat2U]

Here's the disclaimer that doesn't get mentioned nearly enough: The executives themselves won't solidify their short-list opinions until the final week, if not days, before the draft. As a result, it's a toss-up whether the Wizards would opt for Vesely or Valanciunas. I'm opting for Valanciunas simply because I was told weeks ago that he was above Vesely on the Wizards' board. Sources say Washington is also very high on San Diego State small forward Kawhi Leonard.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... z1PHcH6c95

Ha. None of these guys would get consideration from me at #6. My dislike for Vesely & Leonard only slightly outshines my dislike for Valanciunas. Honestly if any of these guys become a double digit scorer and signficant contributor at the NBA level, color me surprised.

This draft is an absolute disaster. Whoever said having the 6th pick stinks is right. I guarantee there are players who are just as good or better 10 spots lower in the draft.

The more I think about it. The more sense it makes to trade out or trade down.

[JonathanJoseph]

Here's the disclaimer that doesn't get mentioned nearly enough: The executives themselves won't solidify their short-list opinions until the final week, if not days, before the draft. As a result, it's a toss-up whether the Wizards would opt for Vesely or Valanciunas. I'm opting for Valanciunas simply because I was told weeks ago that he was above Vesely on the Wizards' board. Sources say Washington is also very high on San Diego State small forward Kawhi Leonard.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... z1PHcH6c95

Ha. None of these guys would get consideration from me at #6. My dislike for Vesely & Leonard only slightly outshines my dislike for Valanciunas. Honestly if any of these guys become a double digit scorer and signficant contributor at the NBA level, color me surprised.

This draft is an absolute disaster. Whoever said having the 6th pick stinks is right. I guarantee there are players who are just as good or better 10 spots lower in the draft.

The more I think about it. The more sense it makes to trade out or trade down.

My hunch is the same. Really weak at the top, lots of value mid first round. Trade down and don't even consider giving up actual assets to move up.

[closg00]

nate33 wrote:
This is good news. If it's true that Valanciunas is ranked ahead of Vesely, that's all we could really hope for. I assume that Kanter is ranked ahead of both of them, so basically, we're going to end up with Valanciunas or Kanter as long as Utah and Toronto go for PG's.

Actually I could easily see this scenario unfolding:

1. Irving to CLE. PG of the future.
2. Minny sees no deal they want, decides to pair a true Big with Kevin Love. Selects Kanter. (KAAAAHN!)
3. Utah giddy at their fortune waits <8 seconds to take DWillz. SF problem solved.
4. Cleveland still needs a Big, takes the Pick and Roll proficient Jonas to pair with Kyrie. Nice fit.
5. Toronto flips a coin and takes Kemba. Or Brandon. Or Kemba.
6. Czech mate.

I'm afraid it's going to go-down exactly as you wrote, but who-knows with that crazy Kahn. If it does go down like that, I'm wondering what the trade-down value of Knight/Walker/Jimmer might be.

[closg00]

Givony was really flogging for B*tchsmack via twitter, he posted this article as-well. I do wish we had an extra pick to get him, he is going to be special on the defensive side of things.
http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/s ... index.html

[Jay81]

If we miss out on Kanter, and do not deal McGee for Williams...

A scenario I've been mulling, and growing on me more and more is to deal Blatche to the Suns for Childress & 13. The Suns want to move Childress, and Blatche could be a good fit for them.

Then use the 6 & 13 on the Morris twins. They want to be drafted together. They both have starting talent, and they play well together. Wizards get fresh new start, and instantly are interesting and have a new identity.

Then follow with Vucevic at 18, and Nolan Smith at 34.

I haven't seen too many ideas that are worse than this one. Childress' contract is terrible and he's a poor fit on the perimeter with Wall with his inability to stretch the floor.

I don't see the starting talent when speaking on the Morris twins. Unless were talking about starting on the college level.

If ten/fifteen years ago the Collins twins were available and wanted to be drafted together would you really do everything possible to acquire both? Marcus, who I like more than Markieff has to shift to SF full time. That's not an easy move. Those two aren't sure bets to become anything other than marginal guys on rookie contracts. I hope this isn't the best we can hope for.

Id rather draft the Olsen twins than the Morris twins at 6 and 13

[Hoopalotta]

Givony was really flogging for B*tchsmack via twitter, he posted this article as-well. I do wish we had an extra pick to get him, he is going to be special on the defensive side of things.
http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/s ... index.html

Yeah, he did get rather excited there, didn't he?

DraftExpressNot sure I've met a more interesting draft prospect than Bismack Biyombo in terms of the sheer depth of his thoughts. Incredibly cognitive.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm wondering if his being this Emanuel Kant like figure suggests he's actually 22 or something.

[thinker07]

Here's the disclaimer that doesn't get mentioned nearly enough: The executives themselves won't solidify their short-list opinions until the final week, if not days, before the draft. As a result, it's a toss-up whether the Wizards would opt for Vesely or Valanciunas. I'm opting for Valanciunas simply because I was told weeks ago that he was above Vesely on the Wizards' board. Sources say Washington is also very high on San Diego State small forward Kawhi Leonard.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/w ... z1PHcH6c95

Ha. None of these guys would get consideration from me at #6. My dislike for Vesely & Leonard only slightly outshines my dislike for Valanciunas. Honestly if any of these guys become a double digit scorer and signficant contributor at the NBA level, color me surprised.

This draft is an absolute disaster. Whoever said having the 6th pick stinks is right. I guarantee there are players who are just as good or better 10 spots lower in the draft.

The more I think about it. The more sense it makes to trade out or trade down.

By most accounts Klay Thompson and Jordan Hamilton are projected to be good productive scorers in the NBA. If we were picking in the 10-14 range everyone would say they were excellent value choices and great fits for John Wall. People could say that they don't represent the best value at pick #6. So if this draft just is terrible and our pick just absolutely sucks etc. and the worst that can happen is that we take a guy who will fit well and be productive but is a bit of a reach -I'm ok with that. It isn't really such a disaster.

[Ruzious]

thinker, I think Hamilton and Thompson would be late 1sts in an average draft. Hamilton is overrated, imo. I wouldn't want him on the Wiz. He's a slow forward and offensive-oriented player that takes too many bad shots. I also sensed watching him that he's a whiner when things aren't going his way.

[Hoopalotta]

^ A decidedly brief interlude of optimism there.

[fishercob]

Ryen Russillo tweet last night:

Draft notes, Knight range 3-5, Valanciuans in play #4 Wash wanted Vesely last year, Tristan could jump into 5-8 range. SAC Kemba over Jimmer

Last year we went into the draft with the #1, #17, #30 and #35 if I recall correctly. We traded the latter two picks up to get Book, who was taken 23rd.

I'm pretty sure the Hinrich trade went down after Vesely pulled out of last year's draft anyway. So where would we have "wanted" Vesely?

And I wonder if the fact that we got an athletic, low skill, high character energy guy in Booker means that we really aren't in to Vesely, but are just doing an awesome job smoke-screening.

Intrigue!

[Ruzious]

Blurb from Hoopshype.com - quoting from "The Hoops Report":

The Jazz are actively looking for a trade partner at No. 4, No. 5 or No. 6. The problem is that those teams aren't sure Kanter will be gone before then if the Jazz pass on him. A Wizards trade makes sense with the Jazz, but the Wizards think Kanter may slip to them and they'd still be happy with a few other guys. It's not that Brandon Knight doesn't want to play for the Jazz. Knight just isn't convinced yet that the Jazz are the best fit for him. The Hoops Report

A few of us said after the lotto order was selected that Utah is the team that makes the most sense to trade with. I'm convinced that's the case. And with Jimmer showing he's a better prospect than he was previously thought to be, Utah would be sure of getting their choice of the best PG prospects (other than Irving) at 6 - 2 of Walker, Knight, or Jimmer should be there.

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

Blurb from Hoopshype.com - quoting from "The Hoops Report":

The Jazz are actively looking for a trade partner at No. 4, No. 5 or No. 6. The problem is that those teams aren't sure Kanter will be gone before then if the Jazz pass on him. A Wizards trade makes sense with the Jazz, but the Wizards think Kanter may slip to them and they'd still be happy with a few other guys. It's not that Brandon Knight doesn't want to play for the Jazz. Knight just isn't convinced yet that the Jazz are the best fit for him. The Hoops Report

A few of us said after the lotto order was selected that Utah is the team that makes the most sense to trade with. I'm convinced that's the case. And with Jimmer showing he's a better prospect than he was previously thought to be, Utah would be sure of getting their choice of the best PG prospects (other than Irving) at 6 - 2 of Walker, Knight, or Jimmer should be there.

So what makes the most sense to trade up? (paging Rico, Nate, etc.)

Trading up for Kanter without giving up Mcgee would give us an unspectacular, but solid frontcourt.
I wonder how the workout in Chicago two days from now will factor into it, if at all. I'm assuming we've already done our due diligence on the guy, but if he wows maybe it ups the ante to get something done.

[nate33]

nate33 wrote:
This is good news. If it's true that Valanciunas is ranked ahead of Vesely, that's all we could really hope for. I assume that Kanter is ranked ahead of both of them, so basically, we're going to end up with Valanciunas or Kanter as long as Utah and Toronto go for PG's.

Actually I could easily see this scenario unfolding:

1. Irving to CLE. PG of the future.
2. Minny sees no deal they want, decides to pair a true Big with Kevin Love. Selects Kanter. (KAAAAHN!)
3. Utah giddy at their fortune waits <8 seconds to take DWillz. SF problem solved.
4. Cleveland still needs a Big, takes the Pick and Roll proficient Jonas to pair with Kyrie. Nice fit.
5. Toronto flips a coin and takes Kemba. Or Brandon. Or Kemba.
6. Czech mate.

Yes. This is definitely a possibility. Like I said, Utah and Toronto need to draft PG's for my prediction to fall into place. All I'm saying is that it appears that EG has his priorities in the right order. It would seem that his board has Kanter, than Valanciunas, then Vesely. He can't control
what others do in the draft.

If your scenario pans out, then EG is faced with a decision between Vesely, Walker, and presumably Leonard (though we really don't know if Leonard is in the mix). Under those circumstances, my recent stance has been that we should select Walker. Now I'm not as sure. The surge of Fredette up the draft board complicates matters. Walker is no longer as desirable of a trade asset since another roughly equivalent PG is still on the draft board. With a trade no longer a viable option, maybe we should pick for need and go ahead and grab a swing man. I'll just have to trust EG in that Vesely is better than Walker or Singleton.

[bullitz]

Givony was really flogging for B*tchsmack via twitter, he posted this article as-well. I do wish we had an extra pick to get him, he is going to be special on the defensive side of things.
http://www.nba.com/2011/news/features/s ... index.html

Yeah, he did get rather excited there, didn't he?

DraftExpressNot sure I've met a more interesting draft prospect than Bismack Biyombo in terms of the sheer depth of his thoughts. Incredibly cognitive.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm wondering if his being this Emanuel Kant like figure suggests he's actually 22 or something.

Is age the more important factor or basketball experience? In other words if he really is 22 but he's only played ball for five years does that make him more like 17 in "basketball years?" Age is more about his physical development, which I think everyone would agree is already NBA level. Don't get me wrong the potential of him being 31 scares me as well. I'm just wondering how much it really should matter.

[nate33]

Blurb from Hoopshype.com - quoting from "The Hoops Report":

The Jazz are actively looking for a trade partner at No. 4, No. 5 or No. 6. The problem is that those teams aren't sure Kanter will be gone before then if the Jazz pass on him. A Wizards trade makes sense with the Jazz, but the Wizards think Kanter may slip to them and they'd still be happy with a few other guys. It's not that Brandon Knight doesn't want to play for the Jazz. Knight just isn't convinced yet that the Jazz are the best fit for him. The Hoops Report

A few of us said after the lotto order was selected that Utah is the team that makes the most sense to trade with. I'm convinced that's the case. And with Jimmer showing he's a better prospect than he was previously thought to be, Utah would be sure of getting their choice of the best PG prospects (other than Irving) at 6 - 2 of Walker, Knight, or Jimmer should be there.

EG is playing poker well. I love the "meh" vibe we are projecting about Kanter.