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Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9

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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9 

Post#1321 » by Alfred » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:20 pm

Indeed wrote:
Rhettmatic wrote:
5DOM wrote:If it's true that Vesely plays hard and with toughness, I think it's more likely that he becomes a fan favorite with his dunks.


Only if he's good, though. If we draft him at 5 and he sucks at most things other than dunking, I don't think he'll be all that popular.


We don't know if Kanter can play the 5 neither.
I am high on Vesely, but we need to trade 2 of Kleiza/Davis/Amir to make room for him. Maybe then add Bismack for the return.


This sounds like a really bad plan.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9 

Post#1322 » by Reignman » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:24 pm

Agreed, Vesely doesn't warrant anyone on this team getting traded to accomodate him.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9 

Post#1323 » by ThemCrookedRefs » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:25 pm

Alfred wrote:
Indeed wrote:We don't know if Kanter can play the 5 neither.
I am high on Vesely, but we need to trade 2 of Kleiza/Davis/Amir to make room for him. Maybe then add Bismack for the return.


This sounds like a really bad plan.

Indeed.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9 

Post#1324 » by Indeed » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:27 pm

Geoffrey Butler wrote:
Alfred wrote:
Indeed wrote:We don't know if Kanter can play the 5 neither.
I am high on Vesely, but we need to trade 2 of Kleiza/Davis/Amir to make room for him. Maybe then add Bismack for the return.


This sounds like a really bad plan.

Indeed.


That's why I don't consider Vesely to be on our board.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9 

Post#1325 » by Lucky26 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:33 pm

Just because Ves and Val have a motor in Europe, doesn't mean they will not get run to the ground in a 82 game NBA season.

Our team is now built in a way that we don't need that all rounder SF. Some say this guy has an upside of Josh Smith. Well , to tell you the truth, I wouldn't even trade for Smith because we have capable shot blockers in our front court and runners for the wing.

We just need a decent SF who can definately guard other SF's in this league. Vesely imo, will not be able to handle that. Just wait till next year's draft or trade or sign a SF.

This is a guards league now, and we've needed a capable (fast, two-way) one for the last few years now. Let's stick to the plan of getting sure fire players like DD and ED.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9 

Post#1326 » by bboyskinnylegs » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:55 pm

ekoreen Eric Koreen
Raptors will not have a workout tomorrow as scheduled. Turns out Irving and Derrick Williams weren't interested in coming here. (A joke.)

perhaps they have all the info they feel they need now to make a decision? Or maybe something is happening with regards to the coaching vacancy?
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9 

Post#1327 » by 7-Day Dray » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:56 pm

A new scout for NBADraft.net has this series called "JNixon-Iggy9's (his forum username) Countdown to the Draft: 60 Prospects in 30 Days. He has Vesely at #6 on his board. He's the best scout I know and I value what he says very highly. Here's what he had to say about Vesely.

6: Jan Vesely, 6’11 240, PF/SF, KK Partizan Belgrade (Serbia), 21 years old

Vesely is a Euro prospect who has been known in scouting circles for a while, and he was a very likely lottery pick in the 2010 draft but he returned to Europe. There is considerable talent and potential in Vesely, and just enough ready-made ability to allow him to contribute a bit early on in his rookie year as well. Physically, Vesely is great. At 6’11 240, he’s an oversized combo forward. His size and length will make him huge for a SF, and he’s got more than enough size to compete at PF too. He could stand to get bigger and improve his strength though. Athletically, from what I’ve seen Vesely is also great. He runs well and shows great explosiveness and leaping ability. He’s also pretty quick, especially for his size.

Offensively, Vesely is pretty good right now despite not having considerable polish. As a shooter, he’s a bit shaky though. His release is high and he has the added advance of being 6’11, but his touch isn’t great although his mechanics are consistent and somewhat smooth. He will need a lot of reps and to work on making his mechanics more natural before he becomes dependable with his feet set or off 1 or 2 dribbles. It’s also worth mentioning that he has never shot better than 67.4% from the FT line, so he’s a bad free throw shooter, which speaks to his touch and need to improve. As a slasher, Vesely is better from the mid-range area against PF’s where he usually has a quickness advantage than he is on the wing against SF’s. His ball-handling skills aren’t great from around the arc, and he generally doesn’t create in isolation against SF’s. Only effective for 2-3 dribbles. Lucky for Vesely, and one of the main reasons he should be able to play early is that he doesn’t need to handle the ball a lot to be effective right now. Outstanding motor allows him to score off scraps plays. Willing and competitive player. Is outstanding in transition, one of the very best in this class, and sprints the floor and finishes emphatically in the open floor. Rarely looks to lay the ball in when close to the rim, and is more than capable of finishing very strong in traffic. Has developed the ability to post up SF’s. He’s extremely oversized for the position, so although he’s not super skilled down low and relies on a right handed jump hook and a quick drop step to get shots off, it’s a positive development. As he continues to add base strength, that skill will only get better. Not selfish as a passer.

Defensively, Vesely has potential but some concerns as well. Right now, his athleticism and length will allow him to be a versatile pick and roll defender and he should be able to effectively guard SF’s and PF’s in time. Right now he can struggle to guard PF’s due to his lack of great strength, and he struggles to contain the quicker SF’s too. Is a wee bit foul prone at times due to his struggles with matching up with certain types of players on this end, but as he gets stronger it should become less of a concern. He is a solid ball-thief and shot-blocker though, as his length and leaping skills help him greatly. Where Vesely really struggles at and puts a dapper on his ability to play extended time at PF is his rebounding skills. He’s a very mediocre rebounder, and well below average for someone with his level of athleticism and physical tools. That will have to improve.

Vesely has huge potential, and his skill level is developing. His ability to play without having to handle the ball a ton will be a tool that should allow him to get on the floor very soon and play solid rotation time for a rookie. Still, he’s a work in progress with his skill set offensively and his struggles right now defending a certain position make it likely that he will run into problems with fouls as he did overseas. Sooner or later though, Vesely will be a solid starting SF for a team. His defensive ability will improve in time, as it’s not a matter of athleticism, he just has to improve his physical tools and strength.


Sure Vesely needs polish, but I think he's being very underrated by this board.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9 

Post#1328 » by I_Like_Dirt » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:02 pm

Rhettmatic wrote:Only if he's good, though. If we draft him at 5 and he sucks at most things other than dunking, I don't think he'll be all that popular.


DeRozan's pretty popular.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9 

Post#1329 » by Lionel Messi » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:05 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
Rhettmatic wrote:Only if he's good, though. If we draft him at 5 and he sucks at most things other than dunking, I don't think he'll be all that popular.


DeRozan's pretty popular.


DeRozan doesn't even dunk that often during games.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9 

Post#1330 » by Silk Wilkes » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:05 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
Rhettmatic wrote:Only if he's good, though. If we draft him at 5 and he sucks at most things other than dunking, I don't think he'll be all that popular.


DeRozan's pretty popular.


DeMar's epic mid-range shot says:

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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9 

Post#1331 » by Dr Positivity » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:05 pm

Alfred wrote:He looks like a Joakim Noah/Tyson Chandler/Pau Gasol type of player. Big, long, good motor, good rebounder, high efficiency around the rim type of guy. And having a 91% free throw shooter from your center with those kinds of characteristics is basically impossible to find.


This is the stuff I don't understand with the Valanciunas comparisons. What would Chandler, Noah be if they couldn't jump? The guy is just not a great athlete like them - definitely nowhere close to Chandler, and the Noah thing, Noah is more athletic but more importantly showed incredible smarts going back to Florida which Val has no proof of. Val can't be a Chandler/Noah type if he lacks their biggest talent aspect. Among defensive centers that I like, if I had to choose a comparison for Val that at least is reasonable, it'd be Anderson Varejao.

As for Gasol. Is Val going to go from ZERO post ability to all-world ability with the back to the basket, because of his magical work ethic? That's not even considering the massive physical change he'd need, the need for all-league basketball IQ and passing... JV is to Gasol like Biyombo is to Hakeem Olajuwon. The only thing both pairs have in common is the same body at draft time
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9 

Post#1332 » by highness » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:05 pm

I_Like_Dirt wrote:
Rhettmatic wrote:Only if he's good, though. If we draft him at 5 and he sucks at most things other than dunking, I don't think he'll be all that popular.


DeRozan's pretty popular.

Well except DeRozan can do more than just dunk.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9 

Post#1333 » by bboyskinnylegs » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:06 pm

WolstatSun Ryan Wolstat
#Raptors do have a tentative workouts scheduled for Monday. No names, but Alec Burks has to be there no?
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

WolstatSun Ryan Wolstat
By the way, no RAptors workout tomorrow. Some guys couldn't make it, got one in today that was originally supposed to be tomorrow, etc.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9 

Post#1334 » by darth_federer » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:13 pm

Dr Mufasa wrote:
Alfred wrote:He looks like a Joakim Noah/Tyson Chandler/Pau Gasol type of player. Big, long, good motor, good rebounder, high efficiency around the rim type of guy. And having a 91% free throw shooter from your center with those kinds of characteristics is basically impossible to find.


This is the stuff I don't understand with the Valanciunas comparisons. What would Chandler, Noah be if they couldn't jump? The guy is just not a great athlete like them - definitely nowhere close to Chandler, and the Noah thing, Noah is more athletic but more importantly showed incredible smarts going back to Florida which Val has no proof of. Val can't be a Chandler/Noah type if he lacks their biggest talent aspect. Among defensive centers that I like, if I had to choose a comparison for Val that at least is reasonable, it'd be Anderson Varejao.

As for Gasol. Is Val going to go from ZERO post ability to all-world ability with the back to the basket, because of his magical work ethic? That's not even considering the massive physical change he'd need, the need for all-league basketball IQ and passing... JV is to Gasol like Biyombo is to Hakeem Olajuwon. The only thing both pairs have in common is the same body at draft time


Val is a Al Hortford esque player. But hes underrated athletically.
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9 

Post#1335 » by Dr Positivity » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:15 pm

Brinbe wrote:
Alfred wrote:I don't understand the hate for Valanciunas. What has he done other than be a top-flight NBA draft prospect? Don't group him with Vesely, he's a totally different prospect.

Well, I don't have hate, he has size, so that's a plus, but honestly, all I see is a off-the-bench hustle-type guy, with a good motor, that'll need to add a ton of strength to play that way in this league. Is he okay? Yeah, certainly, but I see red flags in him, just like I do with Vesely and Biyombo, and I wouldn't take any of them over Walker, tbh (assuming the top-four are gone).

If he's so good, sell me on him.


Agreed. At 19 you're showing who you're going to be. And for Val right now the picture is overwhelmingly energy big man. He is a taller but weaker/unathletic (might be a bad trade-off) Amir Johnson. You don't go from tall unathletic Amir at 19 to all-star offensive skills because you work hard, but that's what lots of the JV supporters seem to think - because he's an undeveloped mystery box. Undeveloped at 19 doesn't mean unlimited development potential. It means he's unlikely to develop into anything. That's the most common mistake in the draft IMO

Peter Griffin wrote:A boat is a boat, but the mystery box could be anything! It could even be a boat, you know how much we've always wanted one of those!


Peter Griffin wrote:Enes Kanter is Enes Kanter, but Jonas Valanciunas could be anything! He could even be an Enes Kanter, you know how much we've always wanted one of those!
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9 

Post#1336 » by Dr Positivity » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:19 pm

phailing101 wrote:Also, he has Cleveland taking Val and us PASSING ON KANTER.


I bet BC thinks if we let out that we love Kanter, Washington will move up to get him. But if it looks like they can get him at 6 we have a better shot
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9 

Post#1337 » by bboyskinnylegs » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:20 pm

Jimmer's interview with the Jazz:
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsjazzn ... z.html.csp

The media really seems to love him there.


and Kemba's interview with the Jazz:
http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsjazzn ... r.html.csp
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9 

Post#1338 » by EZA23 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:20 pm

I wouldn't draft Vesely on the basis that he absolutely cannot make any free throws, almost on a Shaq-esque level; also, he doesn't really have the ability to create his own shot, and assuming our guards stay the same, no one can really help create one. I still say Walker due to the fact that he brings something to this Toronto team that no other player has in recent memory. Leadership, tenacity, heart,confidence, intangibles (of course assuming Knight doesn't drop).
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9 

Post#1339 » by Alfred » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:21 pm

Dr Mufasa wrote:
Alfred wrote:He looks like a Joakim Noah/Tyson Chandler/Pau Gasol type of player. Big, long, good motor, good rebounder, high efficiency around the rim type of guy. And having a 91% free throw shooter from your center with those kinds of characteristics is basically impossible to find.


This is the stuff I don't understand with the Valanciunas comparisons. What would Chandler, Noah be if they couldn't jump? The guy is just not a great athlete like them - definitely nowhere close to Chandler, and the Noah thing, Noah is more athletic but more importantly showed incredible smarts going back to Florida which Val has no proof of. Val can't be a Chandler/Noah type if he lacks their biggest talent aspect. Among defensive centers that I like, if I had to choose a comparison for Val that at least is reasonable, it'd be Anderson Varejao.

As for Gasol. Is Val going to go from ZERO post ability to all-world ability with the back to the basket, because of his magical work ethic? That's not even considering the massive physical change he'd need, the need for all-league basketball IQ and passing... JV is to Gasol like Biyombo is to Hakeem Olajuwon. The only thing both pairs have in common is the same body at draft time


ZERO post ability? You've admitted that you've never watched a game of his. He does have post ability. He has a hook shot that goes in more often than it doesn't. You don't know what you're talking about.

Need I remind people what your draft board looks like?

http://asubstituteforwar.com/2011/06/03 ... big-board/
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Re: Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9 

Post#1340 » by 7-Day Dray » Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:26 pm

Does anyone read my posts? :cry: Ahh, I'll just post it again.

A new scout for NBADraft.net has this series called "JNixon-Iggy9's (his forum username) Countdown to the Draft: 60 Prospects in 30 Days. He has Vesely at #6 on his board. He's the best scout I know and I value what he says very highly. Here's what he had to say about Vesely.

6: Jan Vesely, 6’11 240, PF/SF, KK Partizan Belgrade (Serbia), 21 years old

Vesely is a Euro prospect who has been known in scouting circles for a while, and he was a very likely lottery pick in the 2010 draft but he returned to Europe. There is considerable talent and potential in Vesely, and just enough ready-made ability to allow him to contribute a bit early on in his rookie year as well. Physically, Vesely is great. At 6’11 240, he’s an oversized combo forward. His size and length will make him huge for a SF, and he’s got more than enough size to compete at PF too. He could stand to get bigger and improve his strength though. Athletically, from what I’ve seen Vesely is also great. He runs well and shows great explosiveness and leaping ability. He’s also pretty quick, especially for his size.

Offensively, Vesely is pretty good right now despite not having considerable polish. As a shooter, he’s a bit shaky though. His release is high and he has the added advance of being 6’11, but his touch isn’t great although his mechanics are consistent and somewhat smooth. He will need a lot of reps and to work on making his mechanics more natural before he becomes dependable with his feet set or off 1 or 2 dribbles. It’s also worth mentioning that he has never shot better than 67.4% from the FT line, so he’s a bad free throw shooter, which speaks to his touch and need to improve. As a slasher, Vesely is better from the mid-range area against PF’s where he usually has a quickness advantage than he is on the wing against SF’s. His ball-handling skills aren’t great from around the arc, and he generally doesn’t create in isolation against SF’s. Only effective for 2-3 dribbles. Lucky for Vesely, and one of the main reasons he should be able to play early is that he doesn’t need to handle the ball a lot to be effective right now. Outstanding motor allows him to score off scraps plays. Willing and competitive player. Is outstanding in transition, one of the very best in this class, and sprints the floor and finishes emphatically in the open floor. Rarely looks to lay the ball in when close to the rim, and is more than capable of finishing very strong in traffic. Has developed the ability to post up SF’s. He’s extremely oversized for the position, so although he’s not super skilled down low and relies on a right handed jump hook and a quick drop step to get shots off, it’s a positive development. As he continues to add base strength, that skill will only get better. Not selfish as a passer.

Defensively, Vesely has potential but some concerns as well. Right now, his athleticism and length will allow him to be a versatile pick and roll defender and he should be able to effectively guard SF’s and PF’s in time. Right now he can struggle to guard PF’s due to his lack of great strength, and he struggles to contain the quicker SF’s too. Is a wee bit foul prone at times due to his struggles with matching up with certain types of players on this end, but as he gets stronger it should become less of a concern. He is a solid ball-thief and shot-blocker though, as his length and leaping skills help him greatly. Where Vesely really struggles at and puts a dapper on his ability to play extended time at PF is his rebounding skills. He’s a very mediocre rebounder, and well below average for someone with his level of athleticism and physical tools. That will have to improve.

Vesely has huge potential, and his skill level is developing. His ability to play without having to handle the ball a ton will be a tool that should allow him to get on the floor very soon and play solid rotation time for a rookie. Still, he’s a work in progress with his skill set offensively and his struggles right now defending a certain position make it likely that he will run into problems with fouls as he did overseas. Sooner or later though, Vesely will be a solid starting SF for a team. His defensive ability will improve in time, as it’s not a matter of athleticism, he just has to improve his physical tools and strength.


Sure Vesely needs polish, but I think he's being very underrated by this board.

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