Official Raptors 2011 NBA Draft Thread Part 9

[dagger]

If we draft Valanciunas I'm done as a Raptor fan. I can't remember the last time a European player was drafted that high and made any real impact. The Euro game has taken a hit over the last, oh I don't know 8 years or so they don't produce the Dirks, Manu's, Parkers anymore. And I'm not a huge fan of the Euro role player

Ignorance for the win! Glad you aren't our GM. Who cares where a player is from. If they can play and have talent and are the best player available you take them.

The level of competition in the euroleague is suspect. It is very hard to get a read on players who play there

There is nothing suspect about it. It is what it is... It's only suspect because you see a lot less of it, if any, than you see college ball. Pro scouts have no trouble evaluating players in whatever context. The context will factor into their overall assessments, but doesn't make it easier or harder for them to evaluate talent. What makes talent assessment difficult is when there is an absence of context - as in Kanter's situation.

[Reignman]

yeah, there's really no singular way to scout a prospect and you have to apply different contexts to different situations. On top of that you're also making certain assumptions/leaps.

No one bats .1000 in the draft (although it seems SAS is pretty close).

[T_Biggums]

Ignorance for the win! Glad you aren't our GM. Who cares where a player is from. If they can play and have talent and are the best player available you take them.

The level of competition in the euroleague is suspect. It is very hard to get a read on players who play there

There is nothing suspect about it. It is what it is... It's only suspect because you see a lot less of it, if any, than you see college ball. Pro scouts have no trouble evaluating players in whatever context. The context will factor into their overall assessments, but doesn't make it easier or harder for them to evaluate talent. What makes talent assessment difficult is when there is an absence of context - as in Kanter's situation.

what does that even mean it is what it is?

And yes pro scouts DO have a trouble evaluating players in whatever context if that weren't true the bust potential at the top would be a lot lower than it has been.

When the talent pool is shallow it makes it hard to get an accurate read on skill level.

[dagger]

And yes pro scouts DO have a trouble evaluating players in whatever context if that weren't true the bust potential at the top would be a lot lower than it has been.

When the talent pool is shallow it makes it hard to get an accurate read on skill level.

It means that every player plays within a level of overall talent in which the scout can understand and place the player's ability and potential. No two NCAA leagues have the same talent level. It fluctuates year to year. Some years the ACC is strong, some years it is weak. In evaluating post players, the US colleges have few useful seven footers in any given year, mostly big men are 6'7-6'9. That's the context in which you have to evaluate power forwards and centers. The scout has to project how they will perform against bigger NBA centers and power forwards. That's called context.
In the same way, the Euroleague is full of seven foot centers, some of them fairly strong. Though few could hold a bench job in the NBA, there is a size and experience factor that makes them useful in assessing the skills, motivation, athleticism and potential of a young C.

Context has always varied. Otherwise, we'd pay no heed whatsoever to kids coming out of high school who absolutely dominate their terrible high school leagues. Pro scouts can see the talent even when it is head and shoulders above unmotivated, undersized, abject mediocrity.

[T_Biggums]

And yes pro scouts DO have a trouble evaluating players in whatever context if that weren't true the bust potential at the top would be a lot lower than it has been.

When the talent pool is shallow it makes it hard to get an accurate read on skill level.

It means that every player plays within a level of overall talent in which the scout can understand and place the player's ability and potential. No two NCAA leagues have the same talent level. It fluctuates year to year. Some years the ACC is strong, some years it is weak. In evaluating post players, the US colleges have few useful seven footers in any given year, mostly big men are 6'7-6'9. That's the context in which you have to evaluate power forwards and centers. The scout has to project how they will perform against bigger NBA centers and power forwards. That's called context.
In the same way, the Euroleague is full of seven foot centers, some of them fairly strong. Though few could hold a bench job in the NBA, there is a size and experience factor that makes them useful in assessing the skills, motivation, athleticism and potential of a young C.

Context has always varied. Otherwise, we'd pay no heed whatsoever to kids coming out of high school who absolutely dominate their terrible high school leagues. Pro scouts can see the talent even when it is head and shoulders above unmotivated, undersized, abject mediocrity.

I agree with the bold statement and I would also like to add that Pro Scouts get paid to do something great less than 30% of the time. It is more likely this strike out than it is they hit a homer.

The Euroleague isn't quite like its been in years past where you can uncover gems mainly because no other NBA team was focussing over there. Now the talent pool is in a rather large swoon and the players that have come over have been abysmal.

I don't want to come away from this draft, especially after the year we had, with another project big from the Euroleague. I somehow doubt BC will make such a poor choice too given the fact his new deal doesn't really give him security. Forget the projects that rarely pan out get the player who can help you now!

[tkim01]

not sure if posted already... but found this from truehoops:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... -vs-walker

[ballocks]

Sorry but I am confused. If Wiz trade up to 2, why are you upset? it means they will overpay for Kanter, so D Williams will drop to 3-4. Irving will go to Jazz, and Cavs will have to pick Jonas. Which means Raps get Knight, unless you love Kanter or hate Knight... in fact, this will be a pretty good scenario.

sorry, i think you misunderstood. for the record, i don't know enough about kanter and i adore knight but i don't want to get caught up in names. that wasn't my point. all i'm saying is that if WAS can swing a deal for #2 without giving up wall, there's no reason the raptors can't do the same (eg. without mortgaging derozan). imo, it's almost impossible to argue WAS > TOR outside of their star players, at least on the trade front.

i mean, the raptors talk endlessly about all the assets they've acquired. therefore, if the above rumour with WAS is true, they're either wrong about the marketability of their assets (i.e. delusional), they're lying to us, or they're just not willing to move them. all of those leave a bad taste in my mouth. the fact WAS may be able to trade up is symbolic of the things i hate about TOR, maybe that's how i should have worded it in the first place.

the raptors theme, imo, for this draft should be get your man. there's more urgency for them than any other team in the top 7, imo, given their future prospects and the unlikelihood that they'll lose 60 again next year. this is a key opportunity to plant a real seed, whether they like this draft class or not, they may not get another one for some years, whether we like it or not. i just want them to "get their man"- whoever it is. if MIN's talking to WAS it just tells me the price is not as steep as you'd expect because WAS have not much to give. presumably it's easier than ever for the raps to git'r done.

i just hope they do. and i'm tired of the public relations games with the fanbase.

peace

[Rhettmatic]

not sure if posted already... but found this from truehoops:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... -vs-walker

The Kemba Walker fans will like that. Thanks for posting.

[DG88]

not sure if posted already... but found this from truehoops:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... -vs-walker

The Kemba Walker fans will like that. Thanks for posting.

Kemba is our man. I'm pretty sure management looks at different stats like these to help them decide who they should pick.

[Consequence]

More on the PG debate: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2 ... point-guar

Scout’s take: “I think picking between the two guys is tough because you can imagine Knight becoming a really good point guard down the line, but it is a lot more uncertain. With Kemba, you know what you’re getting—tough kid, a leader, bold, the kind of guy who lifts up his teammates. He is small, but he has a lot of heart and determination. And he can score. If you want the higher gamble, higher reward, it’s Knight. If you want a guy who you know can help you now, it’s Kemba.”

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2 ... z1PSTIPrnW

[Silk Wilkes]

not sure if posted already... but found this from truehoops:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... -vs-walker

But isn't this similar to a rookie in the NBA? For example, if John Wall was to go up against Tony Parker he might get schooled, but in the long run you take Wall. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind either guy but I'm just playing devil's advocate.

[dagger]

And yes pro scouts DO have a trouble evaluating players in whatever context if that weren't true the bust potential at the top would be a lot lower than it has been.

When the talent pool is shallow it makes it hard to get an accurate read on skill level.

It means that every player plays within a level of overall talent in which the scout can understand and place the player's ability and potential. No two NCAA leagues have the same talent level. It fluctuates year to year. Some years the ACC is strong, some years it is weak. In evaluating post players, the US colleges have few useful seven footers in any given year, mostly big men are 6'7-6'9. That's the context in which you have to evaluate power forwards and centers. The scout has to project how they will perform against bigger NBA centers and power forwards. That's called context.
In the same way, the Euroleague is full of seven foot centers, some of them fairly strong. Though few could hold a bench job in the NBA, there is a size and experience factor that makes them useful in assessing the skills, motivation, athleticism and potential of a young C.

Context has always varied. Otherwise, we'd pay no heed whatsoever to kids coming out of high school who absolutely dominate their terrible high school leagues. Pro scouts can see the talent even when it is head and shoulders above unmotivated, undersized, abject mediocrity.

I agree with the bold statement and I would also like to add that Pro Scouts get paid to do something great less than 30% of the time. It is more likely this strike out than it is they hit a homer.

The Euroleague isn't quite like its been in years past where you can uncover gems mainly because no other NBA team was focussing over there. Now the talent pool is in a rather large swoon and the players that have come over have been abysmal.

I don't want to come away from this draft, especially after the year we had, with another project big from the Euroleague. I somehow doubt BC will make such a poor choice too given the fact his new deal doesn't really give him security. Forget the projects that rarely pan out get the player who can help you now!

Unless we draft Walker or maybe Leonard, anyone will draft wlll be a project. I dare say Knight, my preference at #3, is no John Wall ready to start guy. He is a project just as much as Valanciunas or Kanter.

[bboyskinnylegs]

not sure if posted already... but found this from truehoops:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... -vs-walker

But isn't this similar to a rookie in the NBA? For example, if John Wall was to go up against Tony Parker he might get schooled, but in the long run you take Wall. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind either guy but I'm just playing devil's advocate.

agreed. And I don't think pure point rating is the be all, end all here... it certainly doesn't appear to show how successful a guy will be in the league at PG. Here's some numbers for other PGs in the league in their last season in college before being drafted:

Lawson - 8.19
Williams - 4.96
Paul - 4.76
Flynn - 2.72
Collison - 2.05
Rose - 1.52
Wesbrook - 1.08
Wall - 0.78

[T_Biggums]

Give me the winner over the guy who is young and has a lot to prove 99 out of 100 times.

Kemba is not going to be a franchise altering pick but he has a winners mentality and that will go a long way to turning the fate of this franchise around. Knight, I like but too many question marks around his game.

[Yeezus_]

More on the PG debate: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2 ... point-guar

Scout’s take: “I think picking between the two guys is tough because you can imagine Knight becoming a really good point guard down the line, but it is a lot more uncertain. With Kemba, you know what you’re getting—tough kid, a leader, bold, the kind of guy who lifts up his teammates. He is small, but he has a lot of heart and determination. And he can score. If you want the higher gamble, higher reward, it’s Knight. If you want a guy who you know can help you now, it’s Kemba.”

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2 ... z1PSTIPrnW

I'd rather take the risk with Knight. He could turn out to be something special.

[dagger]

Allan (Toronto)

Where do you see the Raptors going with their pick?
Chad Ford (1:10 PM)

A very tough call. If Brandon Knight is still on the board, I think that will be the pick. If he's not, sounds like Kanter, Vesely, Kawhi Leonard & Kemba Walker are in the mix. Not sure which way they are leaning. If it was me ... I'd take Leonard here.

[Yeezus_]

Allan (Toronto)

Where do you see the Raptors going with their pick?
Chad Ford (1:10 PM)

A very tough call. If Brandon Knight is still on the board, I think that will be the pick. If he's not, sounds like Kanter, Vesely, Kawhi Leonard & Kemba Walker are in the mix. Not sure which way they are leaning. If it was me ... I'd take Leonard here.

He doesn't even answer the question. He just basically through out all the names in our range because he really doesn't know.

[bboyskinnylegs]

at least both Ford and Givony seem to indicate that they really have no idea who the Raps would pick (aside from Knight if he's on the board).

[bboyskinnylegs]

tribjazz Brian T. Smith
Knight on Kanter: Great player, funny guy. ... I love being around Enes.
4 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

tribjazz Brian T. Smith
Knight is very confident. Different world than Walker, Fredette.
4 minutes ago

tribjazz Brian T. Smith
Brandon Knight said he'll work out against Kyrie Irving.
5 minutes ago

interesting...although we know it will never happen because Kyrie's camp would never agree

[mintsa]

More on the PG debate: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2 ... point-guar

Scout’s take: “I think picking between the two guys is tough because you can imagine Knight becoming a really good point guard down the line, but it is a lot more uncertain. With Kemba, you know what you’re getting—tough kid, a leader, bold, the kind of guy who lifts up his teammates. He is small, but he has a lot of heart and determination. And he can score. If you want the higher gamble, higher reward, it’s Knight. If you want a guy who you know can help you now, it’s Kemba.”

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2 ... z1PSTIPrnW

That's why I would want Kemba over Knight (if we had to chose between both). Words like "leader", "toughness", "determination" can not be taught, your born with these traits. Raptor fans know the word "potential" oh too well.........

Some players just have "it" and I think Kemba does as well.