Bobcats Picks Discussion (#9, #19, #39)

[dmutombo321]

brooks wont last til 19. that much is becoming very clear. its either take him at 9 or miss out on him. that being said, maybe that helps someone like hamilton to drop to 19, per DXs latest mock.

Agreed.

I'd also suggested a 9/39 for 14/23 trade with Houston a week or two ago with the idea of taking BPA at 14 and grabbing Brooks at 19. Recently however, the way Brooks has been manhandling folks in workouts, there's no way he's on the board at 19.

According to Givoney's mock Slam just linked, they have him going to Indy at 15

"Brooks has been rocketing up draft boards thanks to strong measurements and excellent workouts. He reportedly impressed Larry Bird so much in his workout in Indiana that the Hall of Famer could not hide his satisfaction."

I've seen two or three other mocks that have him taken there as well. NY is also reportedly enamored with him.

If Houston covets someone at 9 and would be agreeable to such a trade, my ideal outcome would be:

14: Brooks
19:Singletary (if he falls) or Hamilton if Singletary is gone
23:Vucevik or if he's gone someone like Dontas or the lesser Morris twin he could fall.

This would yield three young rotation players and if theyre real fortunate, Brooks could turn into something special. If not, they'll still have a NBA ready backup for Hendo once he's back on the floor.

In terms of risk forcasting, if the two teams execute such a deal it could backfire on Charlotte if Brooks continues to impress; the fact that Milwaukee, who is drafting at #10 is having him back for a second look is telling. That said, I'd still roll the dice if such an opportunity presents itself.

[BigSlam]

14: Brooks
19:Singletary (if he falls) or Hamilton if Singletary is gone
23:Vucevik or if he's gone someone like Dontas or the lesser Morris twin he could fall.

I'd even be ok reaching for Tyler at #23 if Vucevic and Dontas are off the board (more so than I would for the lesser Morris twin).

[dmutombo321]

http://www.thehoopsreport.com/article.aspx?id=747

"Multiple sources at the Charlotte Bobcats workout told me Marshon Brooks easily won his matchup and had his way with Burks. The sources said it really wasn't even all that close. Brooks apparently also had an impressive dunk on Burks at one point in the workout.

Brooks was originally thought to be a candidate for the Bobcats at No. 19, but with his impressive showing could he now be a serious candidate at No. 9? He also worked out in Chicago in front of representatives from the Milwaukee Bucks on Sunday. Could the Bucks, who draft at No. 10, be interested in Brooks as well?

It's incredible how much Brooks' draft stock has improved since the NBA Draft process has begun. After the college basketball season ended, Brooks was originally thought to be a late 1st or early 2nd round pick. "

[bobcats3wallace]

http://www.thehoopsreport.com/article.aspx?id=747

"Multiple sources at the Charlotte Bobcats workout told me Marshon Brooks easily won his matchup and had his way with Burks. The sources said it really wasn't even all that close. Brooks apparently also had an impressive dunk on Burks at one point in the workout.

Brooks was originally thought to be a candidate for the Bobcats at No. 19, but with his impressive showing could he now be a serious candidate at No. 9? He also worked out in Chicago in front of representatives from the Milwaukee Bucks on Sunday. Could the Bucks, who draft at No. 10, be interested in Brooks as well?

It's incredible how much Brooks' draft stock has improved since the NBA Draft process has begun. After the college basketball season ended, Brooks was originally thought to be a late 1st or early 2nd round pick. "

Do we think that Brooks will be able to effectively play SF next to Hendo in the future or is he just a backup behind Hendo? The guy is 6'5" which is a bit small for a SF, but is doable. He isn't the greatest 3 point threat, but perhaps could improve. IF he has shown he can effectively play either wing position, then i'm sold on him at 9. However if we still think he is only a SG, then i'll pass. One thing seems to be clear though, Burks will not be the pick.

9: Brooks (if he can show he is capable of SF) or Klay Thompson
19: Nikola Vucevic

I don't have a whole lot of interest in Singletary. Would MUCH rather Hamilton to him. We need outside shooting and scoring, not another severely limited offensive player.

[Kembastockton]

I would like to see us take Klay or Brooks, and trade Hendo for another pick. I would like to send himto Utah for 12. Then we could EASILY WALK AWAY FROM THIS DRAFT WITH BROOKS OR KLAY, SINGLETON, AND VUCEVIC in the first round and then a back up point guard Norris Cole or Shelvin Mack at 39. I must say that would be a 4-3-7-7 of a draft.

[Jaruff]

Why would Brooks need to play SF?

He would fit in that James Harden role nicely. Let Henderson start, play his 25 minutes or so as a defender, and bring Brooks in to slay buckets.

I'd rather trade down (ex: Houston trade) and just draft Jenkins 23rd. I think he's better than Brooks and he plays both guard positions.

The talent in the 20-40 range looks more appealing than most of the earlier talent. Guys like Jenkins, Vucevic, Darius Morris, etc.

[dmutombo321]

http://www.thehoopsreport.com/article.aspx?id=747

"Multiple sources at the Charlotte Bobcats workout told me Marshon Brooks easily won his matchup and had his way with Burks. The sources said it really wasn't even all that close. Brooks apparently also had an impressive dunk on Burks at one point in the workout.

Brooks was originally thought to be a candidate for the Bobcats at No. 19, but with his impressive showing could he now be a serious candidate at No. 9? He also worked out in Chicago in front of representatives from the Milwaukee Bucks on Sunday. Could the Bucks, who draft at No. 10, be interested in Brooks as well?

It's incredible how much Brooks' draft stock has improved since the NBA Draft process has begun. After the college basketball season ended, Brooks was originally thought to be a late 1st or early 2nd round pick. "

Do we think that Brooks will be able to effectively play SF next to Hendo in the future or is he just a backup behind Hendo? The guy is 6'5" which is a bit small for a SF, but is doable. He isn't the greatest 3 point threat, but perhaps could improve. IF he has shown he can effectively play either wing position, then i'm sold on him at 9. However if we still think he is only a SG, then i'll pass. One thing seems to be clear though, Burks will not be the pick.

9: Brooks (if he can show he is capable of SF) or Klay Thompson
19: Nikola Vucevic

I don't have a whole lot of interest in Singletary. Would MUCH rather Hamilton to him. We need outside shooting and scoring, not another severely limited offensive player.

Brooks is a pure SG. As Jaruff notes, he would not play SF.

We dont have enough talent on this team at any position to draft for need. Hendo has shown that he is a competant starter who can slash and defend but is a poor long distance shooter. Brooks is a phenominal scorer in every respect -perhaps the best in the draft- but while he had impressive measurements, it remains to be seen how good of a defender/distributer he will be on the NBA level.

The idea would be to draft Brooks to compete with Henderson at the SG. Whoever emerges as the superior player starts and the other would play the sparkplug role off the bench.

If we stick with just the 9 and 19, I like Vucevik at 19 but another option would be to grab a Hamilton or Singletary (if they slide) for SF depth and then try to address the 5 spot through FA. As Snidely mentioned in the center thread, Hawes (@$5.5mil/yr) fits into our rebuilding plan at only 23 years of age but with 5 years of NBA experience, he would be ready to contribute immediatly without a learning curve that someone like Vucevik or Jonas would face.

Next year:
DJ / Livingston / Temple
Brooks / Carroll / Temple / Hendo (injured)
Jax / Hamilton
Tyrus / Diaw / White / Najara
Hawes / Kawme or vet min FA if he walks / Diop (injured)

Diaw and Najara drop off the books at year end. If we can drop off Jackson and/or Carroll's contracts to a playoff team during the season for cap some cap relief and then draw a 4-7 lotto pick to go along with our Portland pick, 2012 could look like.

DJ / Livingston / Goudlock
Hendo / Brooks / Temple
Harrison Barnes / Hamilton
Tyrus / White / PF drafted with portland pick
Hawes / Kwame / Diop

That team IMO would be good enough to return to the playoffs and would have a talented young core all in their 20s that could potentially compete in the east given a couple years to gel and add some complementary veterans. Or, they could potentially make a bold move for Paul at that point with a sign and trade using DJ (NO native), Hendo and Diop's then expiring as pieces.

[Bassman]

brooks wont last til 19. that much is becoming very clear. its either take him at 9 or miss out on him. that being said, maybe that helps someone like hamilton to drop to 19, per DXs latest mock.

Agreed. As I said weeks ago, Brooks would ultimately get into the lottery (or very close). He is the REAL DEAL, and we should draft him at 9, take Vucevic at 19 (or the best SF remaining) and target our BPA at 39. Trading down from 9 is not worth the risk if we're sold on Brooks, as his rising stock in a weaker draft won't allow one to predict his landing spot.

[Kembastockton]

As my pick for nine is Klay Thompson followed closely by Brooks and Burks I am wondering. Could Burks be a major minute nba pointguard. I was watching his moves in the shooting drills, and homeboy is nice. His moves and shooting rhythms are the smoothest of any two in this draft. I just can't help, but wonder. Could he be a Penny Hardaway type? Just asking.

[doc.end]

I have to make it clear - the reappearing name of Singletary in this thread is supposed to be Singleton?

[dmutombo321]

^ you're right doc - getting chris singleton and sean singletary confused, singleton is the lotto prospect

[doc.end]

I was starting to wonder if I am missing some obvious nickname for him

[vorbis]

i would urge caution in falling in love with reports of brooks dominating workouts against players 2 and 3 years younger than him. i really don't think he's worth a shot at #9. you want to go for a player with a difference-making skill there, even if the total package isn't set right now. brooks may turn out to be a double-digit scorer in the league, but you can get guys like that out of the d-league as well. i'd want to feel really good about brooks' makeup to take him in the top 10. like, a paul pierce or dwyane wade type attitude about getting better and becoming a total player.

[countryboi]

when did going to school for 4 years become since a bad thing? is it such a bad thing that brooks is more polished than the other guards?

[SWedd523]

when did going to school for 4 years become since a bad thing? is it such a bad thing that brooks is more polished than the other guards?

If a 19 year old sophomore put up nearly identical stats to a 22 year old senior, wouldn't you want the 19 year old and expect him to improve more?


Look at Brooks' numbers from his sophomore to his senior year. What if Burks makes that same improvement?



Besides as we've all said, workouts really shouldn't have much of an impact on draft stock as it's not anywhere near as valuable as game tape.

[bobcats3wallace]

I think there are players just as talented as Brooks that could come in here and actually fill a need. So while your right, and we do have a lot of holes, why not try to fill a hole if that player at 9 happens to be among the BPA? IMO Klay Thompson would be the better pick because he would not only fill a need, but would also be among the BPA at 9. Brooks is good, but he doesn't fill both of those. Not to mention we desperately need shooting which Brooks would not provide. Stick with Klay and Vucevic.

[ohara]

Really a big fan of Klay. As of right now, he would be my preference at #9 unless someone who was expected to go earlier drops to us. But there are upsides to Brooks and Burks which make either of them good picks also. And from what I have been reading, Tristan Thompson has been doing very well in workouts and is back on the rise. Has not been a lot of talk about him for a couple weeks, but he seems to be gaining tractiion going into the last week. Think when draft day gets here, he's going to give Twin #1 a strong run for his money with who gets taken first.

[BigSlam]

Burks, Brooks, Klay, Kawhi.....................at least we'll have choices at #9. We didn't seem to have that many the last time we drafted in the 1st round - and that's just at #9. There might be just as many quality choices at #19 as well!!

It's really shaping up as an exciting draft for us.

[dmutombo321]

i would urge caution in falling in love with reports of brooks dominating workouts against players 2 and 3 years younger than him. i really don't think he's worth a shot at #9. you want to go for a player with a difference-making skill there, even if the total package isn't set right now. brooks may turn out to be a double-digit scorer in the league, but you can get guys like that out of the d-league as well. i'd want to feel really good about brooks' makeup to take him in the top 10. like, a paul pierce or dwyane wade type attitude about getting better and becoming a total player.

The fact Brooks is a senior and Burks is a sophomore may have some validity in explaining Brook’s dominance in the workout. But I put limited stock in it.

To draw a parallel, I haven’t read any reports of established seniors like Kyle Singler utterly dominating sophomore lotto prospects 2-3 years his junior like Jordan Hamilton.

And historically, we didn’t see Freshmen lotto guards like Derrick Rose and Eric Gordon getting handily beat up on by the likes of top ranked Seniors such as JR Giddons and Sean Singletary in their pre-draft workouts. The young guys’ reputations as top prospects were supported by their performances. I recall then 19 yo Russell Westbrook in particular tearing people up in workouts and, as a result, propelling himself into the top 5.

Guys like Granger and Roy have also come through as seniors and gone onto have noteworthy careers. They just developed later in their college careers.

Brandon Roy never averaged over 13 ppg his first 3 years in college. But he improved, had a fantastic senior year, a good showing in predraft workouts and went onto be a great NBA player until his career was sidetracked by injuries.

Red Flags, IMO, appear in situations where a college senior with an accomplished career has consistant pedestrian showings in group workouts. It usually foretells difficulty in adjusting to the superior athletes and defensive schemes of the NBA. Morris Almond comes to mind.

To me, Brooks’ allure lies in the fact that he’s simultaneously NBA ready but at 22 years of age and having shown progressive improvement, he also has plenty of room for further growth. He also presents really well in his interviews and seems to be a student of the game.

Burks is going to improve, no doubt. But I feel Brooks has plenty of room to improve in his own right with an ever higher ceiling as an offensive player.

[vorbis]

i would urge caution in falling in love with reports of brooks dominating workouts against players 2 and 3 years younger than him. i really don't think he's worth a shot at #9. you want to go for a player with a difference-making skill there, even if the total package isn't set right now. brooks may turn out to be a double-digit scorer in the league, but you can get guys like that out of the d-league as well. i'd want to feel really good about brooks' makeup to take him in the top 10. like, a paul pierce or dwyane wade type attitude about getting better and becoming a total player.

The fact Brooks is a senior and Burks is a sophomore may have some validity in explaining Brook’s dominance in the workout. But I put limited stock in it.

To draw a parallel, I haven’t read any reports of established seniors like Kyle Singler utterly dominating sophomore lotto prospects 2-3 years his junior like Jordan Hamilton.

And historically, we didn’t see Freshmen lotto guards like Derrick Rose and Eric Gordon getting handily beat up on by the likes of top ranked Seniors such as JR Giddons and Sean Singletary in their pre-draft workouts. The young guys’ reputations as top prospects were supported by their performances. I recall then 19 yo Russell Westbrook in particular tearing people up in workouts and, as a result, propelling himself into the top 5.

Guys like Granger and Roy have also come through as seniors and gone onto have noteworthy careers. They just developed later in their college careers.

Brandon Roy never averaged over 13 ppg his first 3 years in college. But he improved, had a fantastic senior year, a good showing in predraft workouts and went onto be a great NBA player until his career was sidetracked by injuries.

Red Flags, IMO, appear in situations where a college senior with an accomplished career has consistant pedestrian showings in group workouts. It usually foretells difficulty in adjusting to the superior athletes and defensive schemes of the NBA. Morris Almond comes to mind.

To me, Brooks’ allure lies in the fact that he’s simultaneously NBA ready but at 22 years of age and having shown progressive improvement, he also has plenty of room for further growth. He also presents really well in his interviews and seems to be a student of the game.

Burks is going to improve, no doubt. But I feel Brooks has plenty of room to improve in his own right with an ever higher ceiling as an offensive player.

i don't want you to get the wrong idea. i wasn't necessarily saying that to argue that brooks isn't a better prospect than burks. for me, it's not about whether brooks is better or worse than prospect x in a workout. we've seen what brooks can do against players on the college level. he developed over his time at providence and is obviously a more useful player than he was when he was the age of, say, burks. it's just that him dominating a younger player doesn't tell me a whole lot about his potential in the NBA, because unless i'm wrong there's not any proven NBA players in the workout with him. that's really the same thing he did this season. he is clearly at a point in his career where he is ready for a step up to the next level.

granger and roy carried over a productive 4 year college career into the NBA by adapting to the NBA game and developing NBA skills and finding roles on their teams. roy had a similar type of drive to be a complete player that wade and pierce had. granger was able to use his size and athletic ability to be a difference maker. on the other hand, rashad mccants can't seem to find a way to be a useful player after clearly being one of the elite players in college his last season. i'd wager that there are a lot more players with dominant college skill sets who are pedestrian or replacement-level in the NBA than there are success stories like roy and granger. a lot of that is just the success rate of NBA prospects in general, but also because the skills that it takes to dominate college games aren't necessarily the skills it takes to matter in the NBA. at the risk of dog-whistling this argument, adam morrison was an offensive force in college with good size for his abilities but was a colossal flop once he screwed up his knee his rookie season onward.

i haven't really watched interviews with brooks so i can't speak to his drive, his attitude towards becoming a pro, and his intellectual capacity to reshape his skills to perform against other elite athletes. i don't know how he will fit in on a team where he no longer has to carry the heaviest burden on offense and be the clear leader. if talking to him convinces the bobcats that he's a special young man in that regard then it makes all the difference in the world as to whether he's worth a top-10 pick or not.