DRAFT THREAD part II: Come Together.... Right Now....

[DIO]

Bismack Biyombo adidas EuroCamp private workout in Treviso
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDqJGJwAU0M[/youtube]

oh...

I'm absolutely better shooter than him

[EvanZ]

Second best pro league.

And just like how there's always gonna be some absurdly good player at a crappy pick up court there's always gonna be a good player in a crappy league. Calm down stat hero.

Again, ACB is the second best league in the world, and any scout worth his salt will tell you the talent is well above NCAA level.

So, yeah, when you take about good players in "crappy" leagues, it's the NCAA you should be thinking about.

[princeofpalace]

Second best pro league.

And just like how there's always gonna be some absurdly good player at a crappy pick up court there's always gonna be a good player in a crappy league. Calm down stat hero.

Again, ACB is the second best league in the world, and any scout worth his salt will tell you the talent is well above NCAA level.

So, yeah, when you take about good players in "crappy" leagues, it's the NCAA you should be thinking about.

I dont know why people actually think that the ACB is 1)better than Euroleague and 2)better than the NCAA. If there was so much higher talent in these foreign leagues why dont they produce more players than can compete against their American counterparts. The NCAA produces far more NBA level talent than the ACB or any foreign league out there.

[EvanZ]

Second best pro league.

And just like how there's always gonna be some absurdly good player at a crappy pick up court there's always gonna be a good player in a crappy league. Calm down stat hero.

Again, ACB is the second best league in the world, and any scout worth his salt will tell you the talent is well above NCAA level.

So, yeah, when you take about good players in "crappy" leagues, it's the NCAA you should be thinking about.

I dont know why people actually think that the ACB is 1)better than Euroleague and 2)better than the NCAA. If there was so much higher talent in these foreign leagues why dont they produce more players than can compete against their American counterparts. The NCAA produces far more NBA level talent than the ACB or any foreign league out there.

How does the US do in international competition in the past when they take the best NCAA players? Why was the Dream Team created?

[Twinkie defense]

Klay Thompson's NBA draft stock on the rise

He's starting to sound like the Steph Curry of this year's draft.

[Twinkie defense]

Biyombo is playing as a professional, in a quality league. It is a very different style of play though, more conducive to big play than the NBA - there's more space to operate in in the NBA and more rules favoring guard play, leading to more open, less constricted play; goaltending rules are relaxed in FIBA, making it easier to block shots; and no 3 second defensive violations in FIBA.

Sometimes a guy's play is more suited to one style than another - and I think that Rubio is more suited to the NBA while Biyombo is more suited to international play.

He will probably still be a good rebounder and shot blocker - at what point do you draft that guy when he has zero offense though? Literally, zero offense. How is that different than a guy that purely plays on the offensive end (except that those guys will still be picked high )?

If Biyombo is literally an All NBA-level defender he is well worth a lotto pick. But that's a lot to ask - do you guys literally think he will be All NBA-level defender?

Plus he seems small for a center - on the short side (6' 8" w/o shoes), and pretty lean. It's like he has prototypical SF size but zero SF skills.

[GswStorm3]

Already preparing myself for the Klay Thompson selection. Another poor defender, he'll fit right in. It's going to suck watching Phoenix or Utah land Singleton.

[r8rrich12]

Biyombo's wingspan is so long that his left hand has only seen his right hand in pictures.

[EvanZ]

If Biyombo is literally an All NBA-level defender he is well worth a lotto pick. But that's a lot to ask - do you guys literally think he will be All NBA-level defender?

Plus he seems small for a center - on the short side (6' 8" w/o shoes), and pretty lean. It's like he has prototypical SF size but zero SF skills.

Ok, I see you haven't got the memo.

Here are the average measurements of first round picks by position (according to DX):

Code: Select all

POS   Height  Weight  Wingspan  Reach
PG   6' 1.11"   188   6' 5.2"   8' 1.5"
SG   6' 3.85"   203   6' 8.6"   8' 5.6"
SF   6' 6.51"   216   6' 11.1"   8' 8.9"
PF   6' 8.15"   235   7' 1.6"   8' 11.5"
C   6' 10.73"   253   7' 4.2"   9' 3.4"


Biyombo is 6'8.3", 245, 7'7" wingspan, 9'3" standing reach. In terms of length, he's much closer to a C than a PF, let alone a SF. He's much, much bigger than the typical SF coming into the league. Basically he's got the height of a PF, but the length and strength of a center. I don't even think it's fair to call him an undersized center in today's NBA. He'll be able to hold his own. He's only got 4.2% body fat, which means he probably has more muscle mass than most centers who are closer to 10% or even 15% BF (Cousins?).

You want to re-consider your opinion?

[yehyeh82]

Again, ACB is the second best league in the world, and any scout worth his salt will tell you the talent is well above NCAA level.

So, yeah, when you take about good players in "crappy" leagues, it's the NCAA you should be thinking about.

I dont know why people actually think that the ACB is 1)better than Euroleague and 2)better than the NCAA. If there was so much higher talent in these foreign leagues why dont they produce more players than can compete against their American counterparts. The NCAA produces far more NBA level talent than the ACB or any foreign league out there.

How does the US do in international competition in the past when they take the best NCAA players? Why was the Dream Team created?

There's also something like 150 D1 schools in NCAA. The talent is thinned out.

[Twinkie defense]

All I would say Evan is that if you're putting your stock in Biyombo that's a bold move. We'll see where he goes, and how much he is able to contribute.

Re. Drafting another guy on the offensive side of the ball - coulda got Hill instead of Curry but would that have been a good move? If we wanted to we could trade Curry for a must better big/defender than Hill, and could do the same with Klay (or Monta) if that is what we need to do.

Gotta take the best guy.

[EvanZ]

All I would say Evan is that if you're putting your stock in Biyombo that's a bold move. We'll see where he goes, and how much he is able to contribute.

Re. Drafting another guy on the offensive side of the ball - coulda got Hill instead of Curry but would that have been a good move? If we wanted to we could trade Curry for a must better big/defender than Hill, and could do the same with Klay (or Monta) if that is what we need to do.

Gotta take the best guy.

Well, you dodged the question. I was simply addressing your concern that he's not big enough. He is clearly "big enough". There are plenty of other questions about him. But size should not be one of them. Size is his *greatest* pro, not a con.

As for taking Hill ahead of Curry, absolutely that would not have been the right move. Curry was clearly in a higher tier. Is Klay Thompson *clearly* in a tier above Biyombo? I don't think so, and most draft "experts" don't think so. It then boils down to need. Do we need another shooter who is a weak defender or do we need a guy who has the potential to be a game-changer on the defensive end?

Do we need Mike Miller (Klay Thompson at his best) or Ben Wallace (Biyombo at his best). I'll take the latter and not think twice about it.

[510TWSS]

With those measurements, he seems like a PF/C. Right in the middle as he doesn't have the weight or the height of your average center. Only thing he's average in is wingspan when you compare it to other centers. So to me, he's like Udoh in that he could probably play C against the majority of the watered down bigmen. However he's not your ideal fit because he's on the small side, but certainly capable...as far as his physical traits go.

I'd have to agree, Biyombo is a bold choice. Actually at 11, I wouldn't be too upset, I'd just rather go with Alec Burks.

[510TWSS]

It's not set in stone that he's the next Ben Wallace. He has zero offense (like Wallace), but he's also going to have to get used to the changes in the rules from international to NBA.

* Is his reaction time good enough to help weakside instead of camping the paint?
* With longer more athletic players in the NBA, how much will Biyombo still stand out?
* Will his shot blocking translate the same way it did with the funky above the cylinder option off the table?
* Is he a fundamental defender? Udoh has great fundamentals, rarely gets caught up in the air often. Is Biyombo more like this or is he an energetic, yet frenetic jumping jack like DeAndre Jordan?

It's getting pretty close, I hope that Goober Riley has these questions answered. Thankfully we have other well respected minds in the war room.

[Baby Face Curry]

Chris singleton stated he grew like a inch and a half over the course of his college career. So did Anthony Randolph. If bismack is really 18 years old who says he won't grow another inch or so? Most guys grow until they are 23.

[EvanZ]

Chris singleton stated he grew like a inch and a half over the course of his college career. So did Anthony Randolph. If bismack is really 18 years old who says he won't grow another inch or so? Most guys grow until they are 23.

23? I think it's much closer to 18 or 19.

[Twinkie defense]

To answer your question Evan, I think people pay too much attention to physical measurables and not enough to basketball skill. The "undersized" Charles Barkley is the prototypical example. So while I point out that yes, 6' 8" is small for a center, my bigger concern is that he doesn't look like a skilled player and didn't grow up playing the game.

TBH I haven't even see Klay play. I don't pay much attention to college ball until draft time. But when two great basketball minds in Jerry West and Donnie Walsh are saying great things about him ("like Reggie Miller"), as a freshman a scout said he was the best player in the Pac 10, and knowing that his Dad was a pro - and having seen Biyombo play - I would say yes, Klay clearly seems to be of a higher tier of players than Biyombo.

[old rem]

Chris singleton stated he grew like a inch and a half over the course of his college career. So did Anthony Randolph. If bismack is really 18 years old who says he won't grow another inch or so? Most guys grow until they are 23.

23? I think it's much closer to 18 or 19.

Typically. After that some folks grow wider,but few grow taller.

[EvanZ]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. There are Klay Thompsons available every year. There aren't Biyombos.

If you have some time, take a listen to this podcast from David Locke (the play-by-play guy for the Jazz) who interviews an NBA/college scout on his show. This guy who has over two decades of experience says that there are two guys in this draft with All-Star potential: Valanciunas and Biyombo.

http://kfanav.s3.amazonaws.com/20110608_6-13-scout.mp3

[bay2hk]

Lol on Biyombo. There are always gonna be a Biyombo every year, look at Haseem Tabeet. If you want a defensive center who can't score and will foul out in 15 minutes then just sign DJ Mbenga. DJ will serve the same purpose at a much lower cost.