Assuming ...

[tugs]

this thread made my day.i love these very intelligent posts.

All of these arguments make sense but still,no clear answer on what is more logical.

I get you AI-in-LA, comparing a point and a big man is night and day. But have you considered how much of a quality big Pau is? Durability wise,he is at par with Duncan imo. If there is doubt whether pau can help for another championship run,then that is stupid. We know pau is capable of bouncing back from mediocre performances.

I'm taking back what I said earlier,if this deal doesn't land us a legit superstar,and I'm talking about CP3,then risking LA's core is not worth it.

[Slava]

But if Love is OFF THE TABLE and the #2 Pick is on it, is it worth it?

Gasol for Irving, Milicic, and Randolph.

Minnesota and noone ewould be willing to take on Gasol's contract and give up the #2 pick and Kevin "Effin" Love. Ya'll are greedy as hell.

If me and Kahn are thinking the same, the only real deal they might be interested in is a deal using the #2 pick to get talent and veteran leadership. They also know that Love could very easily walk when his time comes.

The number 2 pick is Minny's best bet to getting dramatically better and balanced.

The more I think about it, if I were Minny I would probably only do it as a marketing novelty.

A team of Rubio, Gasol, and Love will make the playoffs (if they surround them properly) but they won't be winning a ring anytime soon unless Love and Gasol commit themselves to defense.

From a pure basketball standpoint, I don't like the idea of adding Gasol to Love because of their weak defense, but from a business/buzz standpoint, it's a great idea for Minny.

Pau is just too expensive for my taste. So unless I felt the presence of Gasol would make me significantly more money than what it takes to pay him, I wouldn't do it from Minny's perspective.

The Lakers would be "gutless" if they passed on the opportunity to acquire the best PG on the draft (Irving) and a two potentially very good back bigs (Milicic and Randolph) for Gasol who is easily replaceable with our current roster.

Agree with most of what you say but I don't think Gasol is easily replaceable. Infact I wouldn't say any of the front court and Kobe on this team are easily replaceable.

If we lose Gasol or Bynum we pretty much lose our inside out game play on the floor when one guy is sitting on the bench. Odom is good but he's not a player you can drop the ball to in the post and come run an offense.

Unless we get a PG or Dwight that can significantly alter our identity I wouldn't trade one of our 3 bigs.

[tugs]

Agree with most of what you say but I don't think Gasol is easily replaceable. Infact I wouldn't say any of the front court and Kobe on this team are easily replaceable.

If we lose Gasol or Bynum we pretty much lose our inside out game play on the floor when one guy is sitting on the bench. Odom is good but he's not a player you can drop the ball to in the post and come run an offense.

Unless we get a PG or Dwight that can significantly alter our identity I wouldn't trade one of our 3 bigs.

YES! This one! Agree 100%! Thank you sir!

[ALL HAIL]

Slava and guds. What if that mystical CP3/PG that we've all conceived of since Nick left is in fact Irving or even Knight.

Both of these guys are dead eye shooters, both can run an offense (Irving's way better), both can check quick PGs (irving's more physical), both are special young men with a ton of heart (Knight has been a straight A student for years).

I've said it once and I'll say it again, any team in the league can have Gasol (first) or Bynum (second) if said team is willing to give up a dynamic floor general and a center who could start if Bynum goes down again.

If Gasol could, conceivably, nab the Lakers a quality talent like Irving, you gotta do it as long as a quality big (or two) is added as well.

[Slava]

I'm more concerned about what these guys can do in the next 2-3 seasons because that's where we have invested all our money in to win a championship. I don't think this team due to location and history will have issues trying to recruit a big name free agent when the cap is cleared with Kobe/Pau/LO/Ron all off the hooks.

I'm not even sure if we can accrue this kind of talent again with the new CBA in place in the near future.

By the looks of it Irving missed more than half his only college season and it might take him more than 2-3 seasons to be a true impact player. PGs do develop slowly.

If we are confident that this trade will win us 2 championships I would do it, which would mean that one of these guards needs to be a truly special player.

[The_Trade_Seer]

It's smart to try to think a couple of steps ahead AI.

But if there was no moving of Irving (if he were acquired), is it worth it for LA if the deal is simply Gasol for Irving and two backup bigs (Milicic and Randolph) ... with the potential for an even bigger star later but knowing full well YOU'LL PROBABLY be looking at Irving in a Laker jersey for the duaration???

Assuming Irving were on the board, you were not previed to a private workout, and Irving was not traded a year later for CP3 (we're stuck with him), would you dump Gasol for Irving and some bigman depth??? That's all I'm asking.

Yes, I would pull the trigger on that deal without a second thought even if there was no future guarantee of CP3, Deron or Dwight. The simple reason why is because I would rather have Kyrie, Odom starting at 4, an MLE like K-Mart backing up Odom, big man depth and smaller salaries than Fisher, Pau starting, Odom backing up Pau and high salaries.

[The_Trade_Seer]

this thread made my day.i love these very intelligent posts.

All of these arguments make sense but still,no clear answer on what is more logical.

I get you AI-in-LA, comparing a point and a big man is night and day. But have you considered how much of a quality big Pau is? Durability wise,he is at par with Duncan imo. If there is doubt whether pau can help for another championship run,then that is stupid. We know pau is capable of bouncing back from mediocre performances.

I'm taking back what I said earlier,if this deal doesn't land us a legit superstar,and I'm talking about CP3,then risking LA's core is not worth it.

I agree that Pau is definitely a "quality big" and have no doubt we can compete for a title for the next 3 years with Pau, however I would rather have 10 years of Love or 13 years of Kyrie than 3 years of Pau ... I'd pull the trigger on that deal every day of the week.

[The_Trade_Seer]

Agree with most of what you say but I don't think Gasol is easily replaceable. Infact I wouldn't say any of the front court and Kobe on this team are easily replaceable.

I agree, they are not "easily replaceable" but they are "replaceable".

If we lose Gasol or Bynum we pretty much lose our inside out game play on the floor when one guy is sitting on the bench. Odom is good but he's not a player you can drop the ball to in the post and come run an offense.

This depends on who we get in return. If we get a Dwight or even a Nene or Marc Gasol this wouldn't be an issue.

Unless we get a PG or Dwight that can significantly alter our identity I wouldn't trade one of our 3 bigs.

I would trade Bynum for a myriad of different packages. Odom is tough to replace but not impossible. As for Pau ... Love would do the trick for me.

[tugs]

The uncertainty of winning another ring during the Kobe era is most likely the concern of most of us here,that is why landing a proven commodity in the form of superstar vets in this deal is more appealing than acquiring 'potentials',straight up Minny-LA, that secures the future of the team post Kobe.

But again,until we see how Knight/Irving and Love fair with this LA team,we'll all just be assuming and basing on past stats and facts that is why I would rather have a separate deal involving the acquisition of proven game changers.

These deals are just too tasty. *sigh*

[The_Trade_Seer]

Believe me, I understand your point of view ... I am a Kobe fan before a Laker fan and would rather see Kobe get titles #6 and #7 and have the Lakers suck for a decade after he retires than see him retire with 5 rings and the Lakers when 3 after he's gone ... however ... I honestly feel Kobe will play for another 7-8 years to break Kareem's record and I'd rather have 8 years of prime K-Love or even a top PG prospect than 2 more years of a prime Pau.

[ALL HAIL]

Stop thinking that just because we get a young PG that the team can't and won't still win now.

Hell if the Lakers got Irving, I'd probably bring him off the bench for the entire year behind Blake.

My point is this, having a a talented PG on our roster is enough, in itself, to improve our team. Having a guy out there that has a chance of making a play for someone else, or guarding quick points would be a God send.

Iriving would not have to be Chris Paul out the gate. He'd be a key piece to this team, but a role player nonetheless (w/Bynum, Kobe, and Artest getting more shots).

Getting younger doesn't mean the team doesn't care about the next two years ... it's smply called being smart and understanding the balance of wise experience and youthful exuberance.

[So Gutta]

I'm not "assuming" anything!

We all know what ASSUMING stands for....


That being said, the Lakers are not trading Pau, period. That's Kobe's #1 guy. If you trade Pau, you may as well trade Kobe, because Kobe trusts Pau more than anyone else on the team. Kobe trusts Pau, then Fisher, then maybe Lamar, then maybe Bynum, and so on... 3 straight Finals & 2 Chips is not a coincidence, it's a product of good chemistry, which the Lakers DO NOT need to get crazy with and disrupt right now. Let's keep the core intact and add a PG and see where we're at. Hell, we could get a nice one on Thurs. and solve a couple problems. Trust the scouts!

[The_Trade_Seer]

Stop thinking that just because we get a young PG that the team can't and won't still win now.

Hell if the Lakers got Irving, I'd probably bring him off the bench for the entire year behind Blake.

My point is this, having a a talented PG on our roster is enough, in itself, to improve our team. Having a guy out there that has a chance of making a play for someone else, or guarding quick points would be a God send.

Iriving would not have to be Chris Paul out the gate. He'd be a key piece to this team, but a role player nonetheless (w/Bynum, Kobe, and Artest getting more shots).

Getting younger doesn't mean the team doesn't care about the next two years ... it's smply called being smart and understanding the balance of wise experience and youthful exuberance.

VERY, VERY WELL PUT! I AGREE 100%

[The_Trade_Seer]

I'm not "assuming" anything!

We all know what ASSUMING stands for....

It looks like you won't be playing in ALL HAIL's sandbox anytime soon, wow.

That being said, the Lakers are not trading Pau, period. That's Kobe's #1 guy.

Nonsense! Kobe's #1 guy stands 2 feet tall and weighs 14.5 pounds and is NOT by any means named Pau Gasol.

If you trade Pau, you may as well trade Kobe, because Kobe trusts Pau more than anyone else on the team. Kobe trusts Pau, then Fisher, then maybe Lamar, then maybe Bynum, and so on...

Yup ... and Kobe would see them all traded for his 2', 14.5 lb. buddy!!!!!!!!

3 straight Finals & 2 Chips is not a coincidence, it's a product of good chemistry, which the Lakers DO NOT need to get crazy with and disrupt right now. Let's keep the core intact and add a PG and see where we're at. Hell, we could get a nice one on Thurs. and solve a couple problems. Trust the scouts!

Um, no. The scouts can only do so much and we don't even have a first round pick to work with. I'd love to see a 2nd rd. PG steal fall into our laps but that alone may not be enough.

[So Gutta]

^^ Sorry, I don't get what you're trying to say. You're just dismissing my points about Pau being the guy Kobe trusts most, and you said some 2' guy or something? WTF are you talking about?

[tugs]

Stop thinking that just because we get a young PG that the team can't and won't still win now.

Hell if the Lakers got Irving, I'd probably bring him off the bench for the entire year behind Blake.

My point is this, having a a talented PG on our roster is enough, in itself, to improve our team. Having a guy out there that has a chance of making a play for someone else, or guarding quick points would be a God send.

Iriving would not have to be Chris Paul out the gate. He'd be a key piece to this team, but a role player nonetheless (w/Bynum, Kobe, and Artest getting more shots).

Getting younger doesn't mean the team doesn't care about the next two years ... it's smply called being smart and understanding the balance of wise experience and youthful exuberance.

This one addressed to me?

Well, that kind of opened up my mind. I was really pessimistic about bringing in raw players but since you put it that way... GO LAKERS! Whether this deal materializes or not, we'll be back stronger than ever!!!

[Edrees]

I'd rather not do it this year. The draft is weak this year. If we don't win a ring next year I'd go for it, but I'd rather not trade away a core player to get a smaller team and pick out of one the more shallow drafts in recent memory. Why not trade Pau NEXT year for someone with size+ a mid 1st round pick when the draft is deeper for a solid pg?

I think people are over reacting over Pau's performance in last year's playoffs. If he can return to form from the two titles we got, there is nobody else I'd rather have. Give him another chance.

[The_Trade_Seer]

^^ Sorry, I don't get what you're trying to say. You're just dismissing my points about Pau being the guy Kobe trusts most, and you said some 2' guy or something? WTF are you talking about?

Hahahahahaha, I'm rolling here dude, just rolling, hahahaha ... somebody knows what I'm talking about ... right?

[crimsonkb24]

Pau for Love straight up is just stupid. Love doesnt defend at all and just gambles for rebounds, that playstyle isnt winning chips

[Asianiac_24]

Gasol's ability to play center is what makes him so valuable for us. Trading Gasol for Love, who is strictly a 4 is just stupid and takes away all the versatility we have with our 3 bigs