Is evaluating & developing young talent a concern in the Hea

[CeCeySay]

Since our cap is pretty much used up by the 3, UD & MM.....we need to find & keep good young talent for the next few years. We can't keep signing old veterans for the min, teach them our defense, just to see them go the next year & have to go thru teaching the defense to another batch of old league vets. Now we all know Riles never played his rookies (Wade only got playing time as a rookie cuz SVG was coach), & let's hope Spo hasn't inherited that. Cuz we're gonna need to grab some young guys that can be developed. My next point, what's up with our coaching staff & developing players?? Fizdale was supposed to have that rep coming from Atl. Beasley was the same player with that supreme raw talent from when he got drafted....Mario the same effing player with not much improvement from his first year. And we need help drafting our players. Other than Kurt Thomas (eons ago), Wade & Caron Butler, what good players have we drafted? I thought it was all Pfund's fault, but now Riles needs to evaluate players better. If ur going to draft lanky athletes that Riley seems to love, then u need to have the right staff to develop them. And lastly, we need to embrace the idea that we can have a couple of youngsters develop with our all-stars. They make other players better! We can't keep getting old vets who want a ring! We lost Da'Sean Butler cuz we wanted to have 5 centers. 5! We couldn't have dropped Dampier?? He didn't even play in the playoffs. That was a bad move. Hope we don't make more.

[BBallFreak]

Historically, in the Riley era, we have developed young players:

Voshon Lenard
Rasual Butler
Udonis Haslem
Isaac Austin
Anthony Carter
Eddie House
Joel Anthony
Dexter Pittman
Bruce Bowen
Mark Strickland
Rodney Buford
Mario Chalmers

Just off the top of my head. Countless others have come through Miami and done nothing. Doesn't mean Miami hasn't tried. Wade, Anthony, Haslem, Chalmers and Pittman were all developed, or are being developed in Pitt's case, by the Heat organization. That's almost a third of the roster.

Granted, one more spot would have been nice but with our center rotation and this team's aspirations, I'm not too worried about it. The telling factor for Miami's willingness to develop will be what they do with the 31 pick in the draft. Watch the contract they offer...

[Hoops23]

Not worried about developing young players coz the Heat is rebuilt through trades and free agency. Thats why they're always in the playoffs. I like that philosophy.

[andremcosta]

Developing young talent is not that easy.

Drafting 2nd round players is more about lucky than ability. Getting a Ginobli, Rodman, Reed in 2nd round is not only about being good at scouting.

We need to develop what we have, but it also takes time.

And having the best core in the league means that you should try winning rings ASAP. It's ok to give away a good young prospect when you can have a estabilished good role player for him.

[wallsfamily]

All three rookies last year should have been on the roster and Butler and Pittman should have gotten time. (after butler was recovered). Pittman would have given us the same minutes as either Dampier and Magliorre and would have developed into a center with some offensive moves! Butler could be the player that gets good minutes at the 2 and the 3 and Vanardo's shotblocking would ensure that we start breaks. We are going to win 55+ no matter who starts all year at center and PG but keeping Mario in the starting lineup and letting him have the confidence that he can play through mistakes will ensure that he can make plays down the stretch. Doc let Perkins and Rondo play through mistakes and it paid off in the playoffs. We could do the same thing. If Nolan Smith is there at 31 then I would love a point guard rotation of Smith and Chalmers and a Center rotation of Joel and Pittman. With Miller's recovery this summer and Jones we should be able to rest Lebron and Wade early and Haslem and Bosh would definitely handle the PF spot. I think this team could win the championship. Keep one of the old big men or go after Oden or Curry and this team would be what we need.

[CablexDeadpool]

Not worried about developing young players coz the Heat is rebuilt through trades and free agency. Thats why they're always in the playoffs. I like that philosophy.

You can't just get old players and plug them in or just wait til you get a chance and just snatch up some superstar or some fading superstar and throw a team together.

You get lucky with Wade as your main superstar and just sit and wait and snatch 2 other all stars with a barebones team full of over the hill players and you go try to win a championship.

Teams have tried this before, the Rockets, have been doing that for years and look where it's got them. Sure they won a few championships... but lately they've been suckage and first round knock outs.

Suns also got a weird thing for old washed up vets and repeatedly just trade away good talented young players and draft picks.

Rajon Rondo
Luol Deng
Andre Iguodala
Rudy Fernandez

You know how stupid they look, they would've won a championship or 2 by now.



Lakers always have been getting young talented players in drafts to develop and been signing and trading for young players and vets.

Spurs do the same thing.

That's why the constantly winning championships, cause they always searching for young talent to bring in, they always looking for some idiot team with a young talented player who just ain't getting a break, to trade their falling off vets to .

They got Odom from the Heat
They got Shannon Brown from the Bobcats
They got Trevor Ariza from the Magic

The Lakers won Championships with all 3 players.



Heat acquire young talent then trade them all away for old has been kinda pass their prime washed up players.

I mean sure it's nice to be in the playoffs every year, but what's the point of being in the playoffs when you not winning the championship. It's waste of a year, especially if your star is healthy, you might as well just tank all together get some young players, what's the point of playing.

Wade wasted how many years and games in the playoffs and not win anything, 5 or 6?

How much All Star talent the Heat has traded for old washed up players?

Lamar Odom
Caron Bulter

for

Shaq, Jason Williams, Antoine Walker, Gary Payton, James Posey

And you know what? All those players are now really out of the league. And the year after the chamnpionship, Heat wasn't even seriously able to even try to repeat.

You know why cause here who the Heat signed after the championship

Penny Hardaway (really?)
Ricky Davis (really?)
Mark Blount (really?)

Got the big 3 and...

We again signed old washed up talent and wasted a season of all of the Big 3 healthy.

Young players are important, especially for if you want a championship team for years. All of the Heat young players they shipped out either went on to put up all star numbers or they won championships.

There is something seriously wrong with the way Heat treats their young guys not named Dwade.

It's not the players it's the system which the Heat operate.

[Carlos4Heat]

^^^
In a roundabout way,you make a very good point.The bottom line is,the Heat organization have to learn how to develop young players,if they want to win championships for an extended period of time.Old vets and the Big 3 just aren't sufficient enough to get the job done,as it was so clearly illustrated in the Finals.

[CablexDeadpool]

Developing young talent is not that easy.

Drafting 2nd round players is more about lucky than ability. Getting a Ginobli, Rodman, Reed in 2nd round is not only about being good at scouting.

We need to develop what we have, but it also takes time.

And having the best core in the league means that you should try winning rings ASAP. It's ok to give away a good young prospect when you can have a estabilished good role player for him.

No it's not

The Mavs hold on to all their young talent. Spurs do and Spurs got enough young talent that they could honestly start on most teams.

OKC holds on to all theirs.

The system isn't working.

Heat been giving away all their young talent since 2004 and only got one ring out of it in 7 years.


And Heat do get good young players. They just are too stubborn and too impatient and 2 stupid to realize that young players need to actually play their game instead of forcing them into a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) system.

When they don't do what the Heat want, they get shipped off or doghoused and replaced with some old guy.

I mean you saw the finals, Spo rather start bibby and bench house and chalmers for extended minutes just because he's an old vet.

[BBallFreak]

Or just ignore my post listing players we've developed

Seriously we traded Odom and Butler and won a championship! That's a trade you make every time! And of course, the fact that we've got three rotation players that we've developed (Haslem, Chalmers, and Wade) as a major part of our core gets ignored.

As for Butler and Pittman...not if they've got no use on the court...

[CablexDeadpool]

Or just ignore my post listing players we've developed :roll:

Seriously we traded Odom and Butler and won a championship! That's a trade you make every time! And of course, the fact that we've got three rotation players that we've developed (Haslem, Chalmers, and Wade) as a major part of our core gets ignored.

As for Butler and Pittman...not if they've got no use on the court...

Rodney buford lasted with the Heat a year
Voshon Lenard had a solid 5 and he was good.
Bruce Bowen was here...and left and went on immediately to win championships (see how this works, leave the Heat and you win multiple championships)

Yeah and the lakers won 2 more with Lamar. Honestly with Lamar Odom Wade and Caron Butler

The Heat could've had their own Big 3 way before this one. They could've actually win a couple of championships given a few more years together. It's better to be able to contend for the young prime years instead of having to win one and then be ringless for 7.


And honestly, I don't think the Miami actually develop players, I think it's more like, "Thank God i just got away from the Heat and I can play my game."

The Heat box extremely versatile players into extremely simple roles.

Michael Beasley
Daquean Cook
Dorrell Wright

Were forced to be spot up shooters most of the time.

Udonis Haslem just happens to fit with the Heat system perfectly so does Joel Anthony.

And Mario Chalmers seems to be not free at all in the Heat system and pretty much proves he can do way more in the NBA Finals than what the Heat system gives him credit for.

It's obvious the Heat organization thinks short term and always in constant WIN NOW MODE so young players get here and just immediately get boxed in and not even given a chance to learn and explore their abilities or even to show their worth on the court.

Cause if you mess up Warden Riley will tell Deputy Spo to put you in Solitary confinement aka the BENCH.

[BBallFreak]

Wow it's just getting silly, honestly. You say Miami doesn't develop players. I show you that they do, and actually currently are, and you pull up Butler and Odom. You're determined that, in spite of facts, you're right. Wade, Anthony, Haslem, and Chalmers - half our rotation - are players that we developed.

Btw, we tried to keep Bowen. Offered him more money than San Antonio too. He took the Spurs offer because they guaranteed him a starting role. Miami doesn't guarantee anyone a starting spot...

[CablexDeadpool]

Wow it's just getting silly, honestly. You say Miami doesn't develop players. I show you that they do, and actually currently are, and you pull up Butler and Odom. You're determined that, in spite of facts, you're right. Wade, Anthony, Haslem, and Chalmers - half our rotation - are players that we developed.

Btw, we tried to keep Bowen. Offered him more money than San Antonio too. He took the Spurs offer because they guaranteed him a starting role. Miami doesn't guarantee anyone a starting spot...

The Heat don't develop players, they keep players that fit and do what they say. It's a difference between getting a player like a Beasely and expanding his game. Or getting a player like Chalmers and expanding his game than just keeping a young guy and playing him for so so many years.

When I say developing a player, I mean taking a player and expanding upon his game. Let him try to learn as much as he can and do as much as he can do without forcing him into a box. You see some type of talent in him and you go "How can I make this guy better" not "How can I make him fit."

The Heat make players fit. They don't try to make you better, they try to make you fit. They

Chalmers haven't done jack ish different since he got here. He's been the same guy for 3 years, there's haven't been any type of growth upon his game. I'm sure Chalmers can do more than shoot 3s.

When they get all offensive, star talent or dynamic offensive talent, the Heat franky don't know what to do. Most of the players the Heat keep are just jumpshooters and defensive players, they run anybody that has any type of offensive game beyond a jumpshot out of town. Offensive players do not stay here very long as you can see.

It's not like the Mavericks, the Spurs, or OKC. They let players be.

All the people you named were gone within 2 to 5 years, some didn't even last more than 1 year. They don't stay or play or even get solid minutes.

And if they do, their playing time is all over the place and they are just in a state of insecurity like Chalmers.

As soon as they actually start to break out or prove they are worth something they are gone or they leave and blow up somewhere else.

Like Beasley, Dorrell Wright, Cook, Caron Butler, Lamar Odom... All Star level and rotation players.

Players the Heat keep are players that fit their style and their brand of slow, heavy defense and drag it out basketball, like Haslem and Joel Anthony.

Simple one dimensional players the Heat can handle. Cause they just plug them in. They can easily just plug in Haslem, they can easily plug in Joel.

And Chalmers is of course, reduced to shooting 3 pointers and guarding fast point guards cause that's the way the Heat system works.

Look how the Heat treated Chris Bosh all season, "We just want you to shoot jumpshots and just guard the the pick and roll."

The Heat even takes developed players and just reduce them down to size, to fit their limited offensive system. I never seen Chris Bosh shoot so many jumpers in his life without even getting to the basket, his driving game and post game is what makes Bosh Bosh.

Everybody knows this about the Heat, they are not rookie or offensive player friendly.

They just love their defensive players, hustle players, blue collar players, washed up vets and one dimensional players.

[BBallFreak]

So you're pissed with the Riley offensive system. Ok, I get that. It's rather plain. But it is what it is - a winning formula. I'll take that over the usual coaching carousel that other teams go through. We've had essentially the same system in place since 95, and now we have potential for a dynasty. I'll take that any day over being the T-Wolves.

Also, on the expanding games part....yes we do. Udonis Haalem and D-Wade have expanded their games in a huge way. And I see nothing wrong with developing guys who fit the system...

[mikey1365]

First, im a heat fan because of Pat Riley and have been since he got here, I grew up being a big Magic Johnson fan and then learned about Pat and when he left the Lakers and went to the Knicks I followed the Knicks and then to the Heat. Some over the years have probably read that before.

Pat Riley has always been a teacher, if you look at the knicks back then there were a ton of players that he developed.

The problem is we are in a world more specifically a league that demands constant success and more important than the constant, is that it has to be now. and he understands that. Win now worry about later, later on.

Riley has always preferred older guys because he has a better chance of reaching them and he knows what he is getting.

I dont always agree with some of his decisions, I really wish he would put more value in to drafting players. I'm a life long Steelers fan and one of the many things that I admire about them is there ability to evaluate talent and develope it, arguably there is no one that does it better. But the NFL is very different than the NBA, the players that enter the NfL are older and more mature than the ones in the NBA

Take Michael Beasley I truly believe he desperately tried to trade that pick in the worst way, I dont think he ever believed in that guy, and I also believe if you could get him alone, he would probabbly admit that it was a huge mistake. Most of th etime he hits with players, especially at the top of the draft. He very rarely is wrong. Who of us really thought Dwayne would be the guy he is ? Be honest After dealing with not winning the lottery, then came it has to be Bosh we have to get him some how or Carmelo Anthony I was on this board then, I know you were to Freak

Please im not arguing with anyone, other than to say Riley is very able to draft and evaluate talent, when there is something there. But remember its always about now and win now, and that aint changing, with that said, please make a deal for Jimmer Fredette

[mikey1365]

Continuing, What makes me the craziest with Riles is his insistence on athletes over players. He has always loved the long athletic types and or dominant centers over everything else. Which is all understandable. But I believe he needs to infuse those athletes with fundamentally sound players, players with strong bball iq's guys that really understand the game, guys that are not those freak athletes, but are smart players that can shoot dribble and pass.

[mikey1365]

I promise to shut up soon, but one more thing, Pat Riley has built one hell of an organization in south florida, the heat were nothing more than a door mat for the league and were destined to stay that way for awhile. Now its a widely respected sports franchise and has all the things in place to keep steered in the right direction for a long time. No he didnt do it by himself, but you have to understand it all started with him. And yes Mickey Arison played a big part because he believed 100% what Riles was selling

[HeatGuyInChicago]

The Heat don't have a problem developing players. They are average when it comes to drafting the right players in the late rounds. That's why they like free agency.

[Hoops23]

First, im a heat fan because of Pat Riley and have been since he got here, I grew up being a big Magic Johnson fan and then learned about Pat and when he left the Lakers and went to the Knicks I followed the Knicks and then to the Heat. Some over the years have probably read that before.

Pretty much like me, a Showtime Laker fan growing up, fell in love with Riley's work and wisdom, that made me follow him.


From the Sun-Sentinel

"I don't think you win championships with young, athletic players that don't have experience," he said. "I think we've learned over the years that building with young players is very frustrating."

Riley is always about Championship that is why he likes young experience players. And some stupid people called it old and veteran than experience players to criticize Riles.

I really like what Miami is doing, getting young experience players like Riles did in the past with Zo, Hardaway, Mashburn, Odom etc.

[Apollo]

No it is not a priority to develop young players. The youngest rotation guy you'll see play for a year or two will likely be Chalmers.

That being said the organization may stash Pittman (who may play some this year), Varnado, and #31 PG to the 13-15 spots on the team and hope to use them in 1-3 years. Riley likes players to learn his system and be used only when they fit and are ready.

[DefenseWins]

Right now Riley will use his draft picks to trade.

Riley was going to trade Pittman and Miller for Tyson Chandler from the Bobcats before the Mavs got him but the Bobcats declined I believed. It shows the mindset right now. Heat aren't in rebuild mode.

They had no choice when Chalmers came. When Beasley came, he had to be given up for LeBron James which I'm sure no one minds (I miss him though).

Luckily Chalmers knew a thing or two about defense. Made his value even higher.

In 2006 his veteran recipe worked, and I trust him. Though as old as Payton was, he was one hell of a defender in his career.

Getting someone like Shane Battier would be on Pat Riley's mind no doubt. Veteran guys is what it's about now. That's why they got a bunch of old guys. They didn't play but they kept that veteran spirit, especially a guy like Juwan Howard. I actually think if they made plays for him with his jumper he wouldn't have been useless out there at times. He was used improperly.

But yeah right now they are going to look to trade their picks. This may include Pittman and whoever is the 31st pick. If it's Reggie, that is eye candy for a trade.

Btw, despite the Mavs roster being super deep, they did have veterans who were hungry for a ring. Heat did too, but our's didn't play a lot besides Juwan getting some play time.