Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

[tontoz]

You can absolutely minimize risk. You can do it by picking someone who already has developed skills instead of picking someone that doesn't.

[doc.end]

You can absolutely minimize risk. You can do it by picking someone who already has developed skills instead of picking someone that doesn't.

There is an age limit for draft. You can't wait till players are 30 years old and then draft them
You are funny guys.

[pancakes3]

i like faried as a prospect, but i'm not sure if he can find PT with Blatche, Shard, Booker, Seraphin, McGee, N'daiye, and possibly Kanter on board. He reminds me of Blair, if blair had knee tendons and lost the baby fat. No way we draft more than 1 PF/C type in this draft when our SF position and backup Guards are so weak. I think booker is a good guess even though there may be more talent on the board. Singleton too. Imam Shumpert out of GT is another probably 18th pick despite our history with tall combo guards out of GT.

[tontoz]

You can absolutely minimize risk. You can do it by picking someone who already has developed skills instead of picking someone that doesn't.

There is an age limit for draft. You can't wait till players are 30 years old and then draft them
You are funny guys.

If you are going to make an attempt at humor you should at least do a better job. Vesely can't shoot, create his own shot, rebound or even hold onto the ball very well.

The "logic" being used here to promote drafting Vesely is the exact same reasoning that led to Yi being picked at 6.

[Zonkerbl]

Well, if Vesely's hands are better than he showed in those clips... Dunno. Honestly I think we'll just have to trust EG on this one guys. That's no fun though is it?

[The Consiglieri]

You can absolutely minimize risk. You can do it by picking someone who already has developed skills instead of picking someone that doesn't.

At 6 this year who represents that at the NBA level? I look at all these guys and I see liabilities everywhere with every single one of them. If you want to buy a skill with a pick, do it at 18, or 34, at 6, to use the pick, simply so you can have a 3 that plays defense hard, and rebounds well to me is insane (Leonard, and in the future maybe Biyombo), to get a guy that's got a very low ceiling but is a reliable player to some extent in many phases of the game (Morris) is equally insane). Free agency allows you to acquire guys relatively cheaply for roles, the draft, and early picks within it is the only avenue by which you can actually take a gamble on a guy you can't get in free agency unless your NY, Miami, or LA (generally speaking) and are a contender, so to me, why on earth would you allow your only means by which you can land a potential franchise player to land a player that can easily, and more reiliably be acquired through innumerable other means (free agency, trades, waiver wire, D league). That to me is all about minimizing risk, not only are these guys, in the end, all high risk, because none have played a second against the best of the world in the NBA, but some are also almost inherently likely to have very limited ceilings if what your targeting is simply a skill.

I simply do not understand that philosophy. It's insane to me, especially for teams bereft of elite talent, and in cities that have never proven to draw elite NBA players ( i actually think DC could be a draw in the future, if it started winning, but its got 30+ years of a bad rep to overcome, plus, our team blows right now). The draft is for taking your shot, and then if you have other picks, managing your risk as you see fit with the other picks, in the past we've often tried to fill roles and it's consistently never helped us, ever, get anywhere. We need to take our shot. 18 can be the best of both worlds, getting a player that addresses a role, and that has upside (guys like Singleton, Faried, Harris, Honeycutt, Motiejunas, Hamilton all would be nice targets), but 6, minimize risk by taking a player that is inherently risky AND has a low ceiling? It just seems crazy to me.

[Zonkerbl]

You can absolutely minimize risk. You can do it by picking someone who already has developed skills instead of picking someone that doesn't.

There is an age limit for draft. You can't wait till players are 30 years old and then draft them
You are funny guys.

I don't know if you answered this question before and I missed it, but what is going on in your sig? Did that guy totally steal a pen? What is he, a klepto?

[doc.end]

I actually watch games aso I know that some things you consider facts are far from truth.

Imagine Locke would scout Nowitzki based on first half of game 6 of this year final. It would very telling breakdown right? (And no I just didn't try to compare the two and I'm not claiming Veselý is very good shooter)

[Dat2U]

I think Faried would be a waste of a pick. People keep using the Milsap comparison but that doesn't fly. Milsap was a far better offensive player than Faried. He was also much heavier.

And rebounding against weak competition doesn't necessarily translate to the NBA. Milsap ranked 42nd in rebounding among power forwards this past season.

Faried is undersized and nothing special athletically. Not impressed.

He's 6'6'' yes but he plays bigger than that, and rebounding and blocking shots are things that always translate well in the pros. He will have a future in this league, a career I mean. At 18, we could do worse.

Tell that to Shelden Williams. He blocked 4 shots a game against strong competition in college. And while Milsap led the NCAAs in rebounding 3 times his rebounding is actually weak right now.

Faried weighed only 225 and his athletic numbers were weak. I don't see how he is going to defend the 4 spot. He definitely wont be a scoring threat.

Faried is 6-6 in SOCKS. However I do believe he's been given permission by the NBA to play in shoes. He was 6-7 1/2 with shoes on.

He's got a standing reach of 9-0. Since the game of basketball requires the use of hands and not balancing a ball on the top of one's forehead it seems to me that Faried has the requisite length to play the PF position.

Not sure what Shelden Williams has to do with the conversation. Williams & Faried have nothing in common. Not in size or style of play. Williams standing reach was 8-8. A full four inches shorter than Faried.

Paul Millsap's standing reach by the was 8-9 1/2. So Faried has significantly better length than him as well.

Faried is worthy of a top 10 pick IMO and would be an absolute steal at #18 if he's available.

[7-Day Dray]

I actually watch games aso I know that some things you consider facts are far from truth.

Imagine Locke would scout Nowitzki based on first half of game 6 of this year final. It would very telling breakdown right? (And no I just didn't try to compare the two and I'm not claiming Veselý is very good shooter)

Yeah, I pretty much take Locke's breakdowns with a grain of salt. He is very intelligent and has a good BBIQ, but often the games he scouts are the only games he watches of them all year.

I've barely seen Vesely play, but in his breakdown when he says he has bad hands, what if he was just dropping passes in that one game? I'm not sure I can believe Locke because that's probably the only time he's watched Vesely all year.

[tontoz]

You can absolutely minimize risk. You can do it by picking someone who already has developed skills instead of picking someone that doesn't.

At 6 this year who represents that at the NBA level?

Marcus Morris. He does everything well offensively and has good size and athleticism for his position.

It is funny that no matter how many times these undeveloped big men bust people are still willing to draft them. Everything you are saying now applied to Yi when he came out. He was a dumb pick then just like Vesely is a dumb pick now.

[The Consiglieri]

You can absolutely minimize risk. You can do it by picking someone who already has developed skills instead of picking someone that doesn't.

There is an age limit for draft. You can't wait till players are 30 years old and then draft them
You are funny guys.

If you are going to make an attempt at humor you should at least do a better job. Vesely can't shoot, create his own shot, rebound or even hold onto the ball very well.

The "logic" being used here to promote drafting Vesely is the exact same reasoning that led to Yi being picked at 6.

I'm not arguing for Vesely, Tontoz, I'd rather have Johnny V, Kantner, or Williams, and in the end, if I can be made to believe that Leonard is getting how to shoot, even Leonard, what I'm arguing is that, justifying passing on Vesely because of the risk doesn't make sense considering the players available at 6. There is no pick that doesn't carry an absolute oil tanker worth of risk at that slot. As I said in my post, my priority would actually be to take Kantner if he falls, trade down, or as I didnt say in the post, take Johnny V. I'd do the trade down in a second because if I've got multiple bullets in that 10-21 area, I can come away with hopefully 3 of the Hamilton, Singleton, Faried, Honeycutt, Motiejunas, Brooks, Harris, K. Thompson, Biyombo (if he falls), Mirotic, a Morris brother, or R. Jackson tier(s), and I like all of these guys to some extent for different reasons.

But if Vesely is the pick, I'm not going to be upset because I do believe he has a lot of upside, a motor to work with and can get better. I don't believe that's true of a lot of the guys that could also be the pick at 6.

[Dat2U]

i like faried as a prospect, but i'm not sure if he can find PT with Blatche, Shard, Booker, Seraphin, McGee, N'daiye, and possibly Kanter on board. He reminds me of Blair, if blair had knee tendons and lost the baby fat. No way we draft more than 1 PF/C type in this draft when our SF position and backup Guards are so weak. I think booker is a good guess even though there may be more talent on the board. Singleton too. Imam Shumpert out of GT is another probably 18th pick despite our history with tall combo guards out of GT.

Why not draft Faried? Do you believe we have our PF of the future on our roster already? If so, then fine. If not, then who cares about a log jam at the position? The cream will rise to the top. If Faried is what CCJ and many others think he is, he can start off as the 3rd string PF in training camp and force his way into the lineup with his motor, intensity & rebounding/defensive skill.

Blatche & Booker would be his only competition in my opinion. Shard can play SF. McGee & Seraphin are Cs. If we draft Kanter, I think it will be as a C too. N'Diaye doesn't matter b/c he's not much of a prospect. There's definitely room for a high motor big that will crash the boards with reckless abandon on our roster of soft, low energy players.

[tontoz]

I actually watch games aso I know that some things you consider facts are far from truth.

Imagine Locke would scout Nowitzki based on first half of game 6 of this year final. It would very telling breakdown right? (And no I just didn't try to compare the two and I'm not claiming Veselý is very good shooter)

Yeah, I pretty much take Locke's breakdowns with a grain of salt. He is very intelligent and has a good BBIQ, but often the games he scouts are the only games he watches of them all year.

I've barely seen Vesely play, but in his breakdown when he says he has bad hands, what if he was just dropping passes in that one game? I'm not sure I can believe Locke because that's probably the only time he's watched Vesely all year.

Season long stats don't lie. Vesely was very turnover prone in spite of the fact that he rarely had to create his own shot in an iso situation.

[LyricalRico]

Season long stats don't lie. Vesely was very turnover prone in spite of the fact that he rarely had to create his own shot in an iso situation.

Are we sure that TO's are tracked the same in Europe as in the NBA? For example, if a PG throws a pass way too high and the intended target tips it before it goes out of bounds, I'm pretty sure that TO goes on the PG in the NBA. Are we sure that in Europe they don't put it on the other player because he was technically the last person to touch it? That could skew turnover averages quite a bit.

Does anybody know?

[MF23]

[quote="MF23]
Stop it. Faried is special. His accomplishments put him apart from comparisons. He has long arms and can actually hit a jump shot. The guy said he wants to win defensive player of the year. I'd draft him in 2 seconds and if he's hitting the 17ft spot up he's starting for the Wizards next year.[/quote]

Faried is no Millsap. Millsap was bigger and a better offensive player in college. Faried is undersized and is just a rebounder, and only scores off of putbacks and dunks. He's Louis Admundson 2.0, not that that's necessarily bad, but he's not worth a 1st round pick.[/quote]

Your wrong. If you want to compare him to Millsap you can. Millsap is a different player and yes he's better on offense there is no arguing that. Other than that Faried is better rebounder, defender and seems to bring more energy on the court. Faried seems more explosive and tested better than Millsap. Also Faried isn't smaller than Millsap he just carries less weight because he has a low BMI. He's tested stronger and has about 3 inches in reach on him. Having seen Faried play I can tell you he scores in the post and can knock down jumpers. So, the theory that he can only dunk a basketball or get a offensive rebound to contribute on offense is false.

[The Consiglieri]

You can absolutely minimize risk. You can do it by picking someone who already has developed skills instead of picking someone that doesn't.

At 6 this year who represents that at the NBA level?

Marcus Morris. He does everything well offensively and has good size and athleticism for his position.

It is funny that no matter how many times these undeveloped big men bust people are still willing to draft them. Everything you are saying now applied to Yi when he came out. He was a dumb pick then just like Vesely is a dumb pick now.

I see Morris as a dime a dozen player in the NBA, very easy to find and replace in free agency maybe not ever year, but many years, and not necessairly a lock to even be a net neutral difference maker in games, low ceiling, never going to be special, probably solid, but no better than that. I would be massively dissapointed if he was the pick.

I think his brother (granted, very different attributes )as much better value in the mid first, than Marcus at 6. Think they both carry very similar bust risk, and potential to be solid at what they do, I'd take the guy we can get for a mild trade up to 14 or so (or hope he makes it to 18) probably than the guy that we either take at 6 or have to trade down a ton to justify.

[TGW]

I personally am on board with Farried at #18. Totally agree with CCJ, Dat, and MF23.

I'm in the tank for any combination of these guys with our pick: Kanter, Farried, Tristan Thompson, Marcus Morris, Justin Harper.

These guys are going to come in and produce from day one.

Could you imagine Booker and Farried in practice everyday? I'd love to sit in on some practices and see that battle.

[Jay81]

i like faried as a prospect, but i'm not sure if he can find PT with Blatche, Shard, Booker, Seraphin, McGee, N'daiye, and possibly Kanter on board. He reminds me of Blair, if blair had knee tendons and lost the baby fat. No way we draft more than 1 PF/C type in this draft when our SF position and backup Guards are so weak. I think booker is a good guess even though there may be more talent on the board. Singleton too. Imam Shumpert out of GT is another probably 18th pick despite our history with tall combo guards out of GT.

Why not draft Faried? Do you believe we have our PF of the future on our roster already? If so, then fine. If not, then who cares about a log jam at the position? The cream will rise to the top. If Faried is what CCJ and many others think he is, he can start off as the 3rd string PF in training camp and force his way into the lineup with his motor, intensity & rebounding/defensive skill.

Blatche & Booker would be his only competition in my opinion. Shard can play SF. McGee & Seraphin are Cs. If we draft Kanter, I think it will be as a C too. N'Diaye doesn't matter b/c he's not much of a prospect. There's definitely room for a high motor big that will crash the boards with reckless abandon on our roster of soft, low energy players.

You cant take Faried at 6. If you wanted someone like Faried at 6, you take Bismark. Faried at 18 is okay because 18 is going to be a role player.

I think we take Jonas...suck for another year and come back with a lottery pick. I think we are in danger of missing the lottery this year if we have a decent draft

[Hoopalotta]

Are we sure that TO's are tracked the same in Europe as in the NBA? For example, if a PG throws a pass way too high and the intended target tips it before it goes out of bounds, I'm pretty sure that TO goes on the PG in the NBA. Are we sure that in Europe they don't put it on the other player because he was technically the last person to touch it? That could skew turnover averages quite a bit.

Does anybody know?

I know, but I'm not going to tell anyone because I like holding that sort of leverage.

DraftExpress I'm told that if the prospect Milwaukee covets (I suspect Valanciunas) isn't available at 10, they will trade the pick to Houston for 14+23.

Interesting. if things fell through for us, we might be able to swing something with Houston. Maybe they'd want to trade up again from 10? They have the Kicks pick next year.