Lather me with blather -- DRAFT thread 4

[TGW]

Farried and Biyombo are not the same. Biyombo is much less skilled and is way behind Farried in court awareness and IQ. Farried understands how to play basketball -- where to be on the court at all times, how to position himself for rebounds, etc. He is not only a high-motor guy...he's a high IQ guy as well. Farried also has better hands and will catch a tough pass in traffic...Biyombo has questionable hands.

[Dat2U]

New Ford mock draft up:

He has us taking Leonard at #6 but states that if Vesley is there (he has Raptors taking him at #5) we will choose him. At #18 he has us taking Markieff Morris.

Honestly this is my nightmare scenario. This would be worse than taking Vesely & Motiejunas in my opinion. At least Vesely & Motiejoy have supposed upside. Like Hoopalotta noted, Vesely finishes at the rim. Leonard doesn't.

We'd be taking two "safe" low upside players. Leonard seems like a terrible fit with Wall on the perimeter with his offensive limitations. Markieff Morris screams like Jarron Collins/Hilton Armstrong type to me. I don't see one standout skill for him to rely upon at the NBA level. Doesn't have great size. Isn't particularly strong. Just seemed okay at a lot of different aspects but no part of his game really stands out.

[tontoz]

This was posted earlier but is worth another look.

Jan Vesley rarely, if ever, was asked to go out and create his own shot on his own, seeing just 2.8% of his offense in isolation situations, which ranks 15th of the 18 players in this study.....but nevertheless ranked as the 5th most turnover prone, coughing the ball up on 15% of his possessions.

He was not terribly effective as a jump-shooter, though, garnering .78 points per shot he attempted, 5th worst in this group—almost all of which in catch and shoot situations.

This guy didn't create his own shot yet was still extremely turnover prone. Lame

[MF23]

Ford doesn't know ****. It's because of him we had to read McGee trades last week. He just makes stuff up and people react like he has some inside knowledge of what's going to take place.

When was the last time he predicted something correctly?

But yeah, I hope we don't draft leonard. Maybe at 18 I think that's where he should be drafted but the lottery pick is to valuable to spend on someone who may never start.

[tontoz]

I see Morris as a dime a dozen player in the NBA, very easy to find and replace in free agency maybe not ever year, but many years, and not necessairly a lock to even be a net neutral difference maker in games, low ceiling, never going to be special, probably solid, but no better than that. I would be massively dissapointed if he was the pick.

I think his brother (granted, very different attributes )as much better value in the mid first, than Marcus at 6. Think they both carry very similar bust risk, and potential to be solid at what they do, I'd take the guy we can get for a mild trade up to 14 or so (or hope he makes it to 18) probably than the guy that we either take at 6 or have to trade down a ton to justify.

Dime a dozen lol. He can shoot with range, drive effectively and post up. Vesely can do none of that. He also has good size for his position.

At least Yi can make a jumper. Vesely can't even do that.

[doc.end]

This was posted earlier but is worth another look.

Jan Vesley rarely, if ever, was asked to go out and create his own shot on his own, seeing just 2.8% of his offense in isolation situations, which ranks 15th of the 18 players in this study.....but nevertheless ranked as the 5th most turnover prone, coughing the ball up on 15% of his possessions.

He was not terribly effective as a jump-shooter, though, garnering .78 points per shot he attempted, 5th worst in this group—almost all of which in catch and shoot situations.

This guy didn't create his own shot yet was still extremely turnover prone. Lame

Yeah because Europe is a Mecca of one on one isolation basketball

[The Consiglieri]

Best cause scenario Kanter falls to us. But it looks like Vesley will be a Wizard. He hasn't impressed me much but after a few years in the weight room and proper coaching, he could be a good player.

I would feel better about Vesely if he had a skill beyond running hard and jumping high. From all the highlights I've seen, and limited game footage, he doesn't seem to have a tangible basketball skillset.

That worries me, a lot.

I've ranted this before and you guys are going to have to hear me rant this again.

Athletic ablity insofar as running and jumping are so overrated.

And I'm tired of everyone talking about the OKC model. You know what model I want? The San Antonio model. The Dallas Model (of this year). Heck, even the Lakers model (yeah, I give you that they have Kobe).

Look at the list of NBA champions.

2011 Dallas
2010 Lakers
2009 Lakers
2008 Cs
2007 Spurs
2006 Heat
2005 Spurs

Nobody in that group with a real run and jump squad. But they're all smart. Coached well. Lakers win back-to-back with Derek Freaking Fisher at point. Dallas with Jason "old man" Kidd.

Smarts wins championships. Heart wins championships. Basketball IQ wins championships.

THAT'S what's most important. I don't care if it's a reach - but if the Wiz drafted the guy who tested out to have the best combination of basketball IQ and worth ethic, I'd be happy.

I don't think the list (or really any list going back a real long time) tells you anything other than by landing the best big man of his generation (Lakers with Shaq, Heat with Shaq, Spurs with Duncan, Celtics with the last year of Garnett's prime), or the modern day best Jordan equivalent (game+will to win competitiveness) in Kobe win it all. The only excpeptions have been Detroit, and Dallas over the past well, forever. If you want to win it all, you either need a once in a generation big man (Shaq, Garnett, and Duncan are 3 of the best 5 big men of the past 30 years (Ewing, and Olajuwon also are in there, howard will join the list after he leaves the Magic and starts gifting a team in LA, or NY titles. I think IQ, basketball smarts, coached well, whatever, doesn't mean squat. I think having these guys is step 1, then coaching and surrounding them with talent is step 2. We aren't winning squat without landing one of these guys, we have the partner in Wall, but we do not have the other piece. Adding smart players, smart role players, a genius GM and coach is irrelevant. The only time teams like Dallas or Detroit steal titles are in down years between elite player based dynasties, this was a down year, LA cycled down, Miami was a year early, Chicago isn't quite there (may just miss, as Seattle, and Indy and NY just missed in the 90's). We can definitely contend with all those strategies, but in the end, the only way to win squat w/o a massive pile of luck, is to get that other player, without the other player, we're just one elite guy and some nice (and admittedly valuable) window dressing that's irrelevant without the other guy filling the room and the role of elite unstoppable difference maker. San Antoio's genius was a product of flukish luck, having only two major down years in a nearly 25 year stretch, and winning the lottery in those years that featured only 2 of the 5 drafts in the past 25 years housing transcendent once in a generation big men. They fell arse over feet into a leprechauns pot of gold. That's not genius, that's luck, what they did do, getting a great coach, and finding some gem's in the draft is nice, but totally freaking irrelevant, Saunders has found just as many mid to late round gems as the Spurs FO's have, he just never got himself a Duncan or Roboinson at #1 overall, which is in the end, the only thing that actually matters (and to irritate me some more, just like the Magic, they barely ever sucked, sunddenly did, sucked in the perfect year, and stole the #1 slot in a lottery they weren't anywhere near the worst team in to begin with).

[Jay81]

Leonard at 6 means we wasted an entire season of losing/tanking.

If Jonas is there at 6 and I doubt he will be there(i think Cavs still take him if there is no trade)...you take him or you trade out of the pick. If Kanter is there, you take him obviously at 6. Anyone else is not worthy of the position.

As i said last week, whoever we take at 6 is probably going to be a reach/bad pick unless its those 2 guys or even a Kemba Walker. We are in NO position not to be taking the Best player available.

What a disaster if we take Leonard

[tontoz]

This was posted earlier but is worth another look.



This guy didn't create his own shot yet was still extremely turnover prone. Lame

Yeah because Europe is a Mecca of one on one isolation basketball

Oh so that explains his high turnover rate and his poor conversion on open jumpers. I guess you told me.....not.

[Cramer]

Yeah because Europe is a Mecca of one on one isolation basketball

Well, when isolated at the free throw line he shot a robust 44%. Kinda a red flag in my book.

[Jay81]

I think we should trade the 6th overall for Antoine Jamison

[pcbothwel]

ugghh, If Valanciunas is on the board @ 6 and we pass on him for Vesely/Leonard im gonna be pissed. Jonas is gonna continue to rebound and block shots in Europe at a Dwight Howard like rate all while filling out his frame and refining his post moves. Him staying over in Europe next year allows us to better evaluate McGee and Seraphin all the while delaying his rookie contract another year.
If we only had the #6 id be hesitant, but we also have the #18 in a draft that looks to have strong role players (Hamilton, Singleton, Brooks, Faried, etc) available.

Just think of like this. IF JV pulled out and continued his current level of performance into next year with slight improvements to his offensive game while putting on more strength/weight, He would be the #1 Center in the 2012 draft and be a top 5 pick in a very strong draft.

Brendan Haywood will be 32 this year and is signed to a fairly significant deal for the next 5 years. He was a mostly injured backup who provided size and defensive awareness. If you go to the Trade board there is no shortage of teams who would be happy to take his deal on and give up assets. When teams reach for guys like Aldrich, Thabeet, Sene, Patrick O' Bryant,Hawes, Robin Lopez, Oden(injury) you realize how low the hit-rate is on legit Centers.
We have the option to go safe @18, swing hard @6.

[7-Day Dray]

Leonard at 6 means we wasted an entire season of losing/tanking.

If Jonas is there at 6 and I doubt he will be there(i think Cavs still take him if there is no trade)...you take him or you trade out of the pick. If Kanter is there, you take him obviously at 6. Anyone else is not worthy of the position.

As i said last week, whoever we take at 6 is probably going to be a reach/bad pick unless its those 2 guys or even a Kemba Walker. We are in NO position not to be taking the Best player available.

What a disaster if we take Leonard

My sentiments exactly. I would take JV over him, and I'm not the biggest Vesely fan, but I would take him over Leonard any day.

NO LEONARD FFS!

[theboomking]

Ford doesn't know ****. It's because of him we had to read McGee trades last week. He just makes stuff up and people react like he has some inside knowledge of what's going to take place.

When was the last time he predicted something correctly?

But yeah, I hope we don't draft leonard. Maybe at 18 I think that's where he should be drafted but the lottery pick is to valuable to spend on someone who may never start.

Not to get everyone all riled up again, but I still say that Williams for McGee, straight up, is a no brainer. On a good defensive team, McGee would have a net negative effect. On a good offensive team, the same is probably true. McGee might have all of the physical talent in the world, but in looking at PER, I think we forget that we are talking about 10 points and 8 rebounds a game paired with poor defense.

Add in that we would likely be able to choose either Kanter or Valanciunas at #6, and I'd trade Mcgee for the #2 every day of the week.

McGee for #2(Williams)
#6 and #18 for #4(Kanter)

We'd have a very offensively skilled triumvirate all on rookie deals, should have a high ceiling as a team, and should be attractive to FA.

[Hoopalotta]

More scoop, second rumor of us working a trade-up for Kanter:

DraftExpress Also being discussed for Utah: Trading #3 to Washington for #6+18. Then take whoever's left between Walker or Knight at 6. Kanter would go 3

[dobrojim]

I think we should trade the 6th overall for Antoine Jamison

or just lure Antawn Walker out of retirement

[FAH1223]

Ford doesn't know ****. It's because of him we had to read McGee trades last week. He just makes stuff up and people react like he has some inside knowledge of what's going to take place.

When was the last time he predicted something correctly?

But yeah, I hope we don't draft leonard. Maybe at 18 I think that's where he should be drafted but the lottery pick is to valuable to spend on someone who may never start.

Not to get everyone all riled up again, but I still say that Williams for McGee, straight up, is a no brainer. On a good defensive team, McGee would have a net negative effect. On a good offensive team, the same is probably true. McGee might have all of the physical talent in the world, but in looking at PER, I think we forget that we are talking about 10 points and 8 rebounds a game paired with poor defense.

Add in that we would likely be able to choose either Kanter or Valanciunas at #6, and I'd trade Mcgee for the #2 every day of the week.

McGee for #2(Williams)
#6 and #18 for #4(Kanter)

We'd have a very offensively skilled triumvirate all on rookie deals, should have a high ceiling as a team, and should be attractive to FA.

hmm..Williams doesn't give good effort on defense and the Wizards were actually better on defense with McGee on the floor

Plus, I don't think Williams is going to be able to guard a lot of 3s and he will be too small to guard 4s.

[Jay81]

More scoop, second rumor of us working a trade-up for Kanter:

DraftExpress Also being discussed for Utah: Trading #3 to Washington for #6+18. Then take whoever's left between Walker or Knight at 6. Kanter would go 3

What if the CAVS plan to take Jonas all along? Then we looked like raped idiots taking Kanter at 3 when he could of been had at 6

Id rather move up to 2 then to 3.

Wizards dont sound like they want to use 18 anyway and Im guessing that they are counting it as a freebie since it was given to them in addition to Jordan Crawford. I wouldnt be surprised if we trade 6 and 18 to move up

[tontoz]

Kanter must have impressed them, or maybe they are still in disinformation mode. I hope it is the former.

[TGW]

Yeah because Europe is a Mecca of one on one isolation basketball

Well, when isolated at the free throw line he shot a robust 44%. Kinda a red flag in my book.