Hindsight - Millsap in the 2011 draft

Luigi · Post #1 » by **Luigi** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:24 pm

This draft sucks. Paul Millsap doesn't suck.

I keep seeing rumors or trade proposals that Millsap could get Utah a move up in the draft. I've been looking at Millsap trades since last season now, but even I think it would be stupid to drop Millsap for a better pick this year.

We keep saying Favors would be drafted #1 in this draft (and I agree). So knowing what kind of player Millsap is now, where would he go in the draft this year? I think he's a top 3 pick, and maybe even better.

Xanthis · Post #2 » by **Xanthis** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 9:53 pm

Problem with this thinking is that when you draft a guy you don't know how he will be in th NBA. Paul would still have the same knocks against him in this draft as he did when he came out. He is short for his position, but a high character and motor guy. I bet he would be drafted around the 20-30 range. Of course if you knew how he would pan out it would be top 10.

d-will8 · Post #3 » by **d-will8** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:19 pm

Yeah, knowing exactly how good Millsap is now, he'd obviously be a pretty high pick, but things would be a lot different if he was coming out of college. Kenneth Faried is basically a slightly bigger version of what Millsap was coming out of college and he's projected to go around 20, so I think that's a reasonable projection for where Millsap would go, though I also think the entire premise for this thread is a bit moot.

Why? First, because we have the benefit of knowing how Millsap's turned out, which is something we don't have for anybody else in this draft. There's a very real chance that Derrick Williams ends up not being any better than Millsap or even not being as good as Millsap, but he still projects as being much, much better than Millsap did when he was drafted and I think it's ridiculous to ignore that.

The other thing is that, for me, Millsap does not fit in to our future. Favors is the future PF and I think you're kidding yourself if you think Millsap is going to happily accept going back to a bench role or that he's capable of being the starting SF on a really good team. So, personally, I'm open to the possibility of shipping Millsap to move up in the draft and acquire a piece that fits in to our future plans better than Millsap does, even though I'm fully cognizant of the fact that we might not be getting a player who's better than or even as good as Millsap.

d-will8 · Post #4 » by **d-will8** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:22 pm

I should note, though, that I really don't see a scenario where we could use Millsap to move up from the third pick, even if we wanted to. Cleveland is extremely unlikely to move the top pick and Minnesota has absolutely no need for Millsap.

erudite23 · Post #5 » by **erudite23** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:28 pm

Millsap as he is now would be a top 5 pick in this draft. The jumpshot, handle and athleticism that he has now would have made him dominant at the college level. There are probably 3 or 4 player in this draft that will be better players than Millsap. Still, we need to get something out of him because he likely is not in our long term plans. I cannot possibly overstate what his value would be to a team who is trying to compete for or win a championship right now. On OKC, Boston, Miami, Chicago, etc, he would be so productive, and yet only cost 8m against their cap. Two years of that are worth a lot more to those teams than they are to a Jazz team that is in remaking itself.

Jazzfan12 · Post #6 » by **Jazzfan12** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:43 pm

I doubt any GM in the league would give Millsap to get Irving or Williams.

carrottop12 · Post #7 » by **carrottop12** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:54 pm

Jazzfan12 wrote:I doubt any GM in the league would give Millsap to get Irving or Williams.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahzhahahahaha.

Wouldn't give up a 6th man for the #1 pick?

reapaman · Post #8 » by **reapaman** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:35 pm

Wait what?

This is really silly to me. Look this draft is not nearly as bad as people are saying. The same people went on and on before the 09 draft saying it was gonna be one of the worse classes of all time and what happened? The 09 guys went crazy in their rookie seasons for the most part, and that was with griffin sitting out. Most people dont know how to analyze talent and harp on qualities of a player that don't matter. I like this draft. Mabey not full of allstar players but its got a good amount of guys who can be solid starters or play major roles on a contender.

I love Millsap but I want a big front line and people won't look at him too favorable once his contract is up and he's getting 10+ mil a year to come off the bench. We aint competing anytime soon so who cares what he's making now, will he be worth his potentially higher contract a couple years from now and is he even willing to be a backup for the rest of his career? We can get veterans to fill in the missing pieces later after we start developing our core unit but for now, trade all the older veterans and stop being sentimental.

BTW favors would still be #3 at best in this draft, Williams and Irving would still be the top 2 picks.

Jazzfan12 · Post #9 » by **Jazzfan12** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:38 pm

The opinion around the league according to ESPN is that the most likely path for Irving is to become Mo Williams and that Williams is likely to be Al Harrington. Could be better, could be worse, that's the most likely thing. Would anyone trade Millsap for Mo Williams?

Post #10 » by **StocktonShorts** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:39 pm

reapaman wrote:BTW favors would still be #3 at best in this draft, Williams and Irving would still be the top 2 picks.

Every scout I've heard comment on the subject disagrees with you.

carrottop12 · Post #11 » by **carrottop12** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:52 pm

Jazzfan12 wrote:The opinion around the league according to ESPN is that the most likely path for Irving is to become Mo Williams and that Williams is likely to be Al Harrington. Could be better, could be worse, that's the most likely thing. Would anyone trade Millsap for Mo Williams?

Chad ford said that, but that doesn't mean anything to gm's.

Look at it this way.

Dallas traded Antawn Jamison, the 6th man of the year, as a tweener sf/pf for the #5 pick in the draft to get devin Harris at the #5 pick.

Irving as a prospect>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Harris as a prospect.

Antawn Jamison as a 6th man at the time>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Paul millsap as a 6th man right now.

You are absolutely kidding yourself if you think the jazz wouldn't trade millsap and a pick to get a chance at a franchise pg like Irving.

Jazzfan12 · Post #12 » by **Jazzfan12** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:56 pm

The Wolves offered Williams for Hibbert, the Pacers declined. The Wolves offered Williams for JaVale McGee, the Wizards declined. I'm not sure there's a single metric that says Hibbert > Millsap or McGee > Millsap

carrottop12 · Post #13 » by **carrottop12** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:58 pm

There is one called size, and it might be the most valued metric in the NBA.

:dontknow:

reapaman · Post #14 » by **reapaman** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:08 am

HappyProle wrote:
reapaman wrote:BTW favors would still be #3 at best in this draft, Williams and Irving would still be the top 2 picks.

Every scout I've heard comment on the subject disagrees with you.

Every scout I heard comment last year said it was gonna be several years before favors even played meaningful minutes in the NBA (which they were very wrong about). No one picks someone #1 that they have to wait years before they are able to contibute to the team. So they are contradicting their statements. Plus Irving and Williams are both about as attractive or more than turner was who went ahead of Favors.

Plus again look at what they were saying about the guys in the last 2 drafts espcially 09, most of these scouts are nuts. The hate Tyreke Evans got for example was unreal and unwarrented. I'm still scratching my head over how anybody didn't go crazy over him, I know I did.

Jazzfan12 · Post #15 » by **Jazzfan12** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:17 am

Tyreke Evans is garbage who will never be on a playoff team.

carrottop12 · Post #16 » by **carrottop12** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:24 am

Give me a percentage of how likely it is that he is in a playoff team.

reapaman · Post #17 » by **reapaman** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:27 am

Jazzfan12 wrote:Tyreke Evans is garbage who will never be on a playoff team.

eLo · Post #18 » by **eLo** » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:16 am

Bat wrote:
Jazzfan12 wrote:I doubt any GM in the league would give Millsap to get Irving or Williams.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahzhahahahaha.

Wouldn't give up a 6th man for the #1 pick?

6 man who starts 76 games last season averaging 17/7 and 1.4 steal, plus stop saying about his bad def cuz whole Jazz play tragic def and big part of that was a guy who still got some fans out here and his name is Deron Williams the Derick Rose wh*** :evil:

ps. about Evans maybe hi is not garbage but combo guard with mediocre play making skills and with poor range is far from being any thing to be excited about