Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - 2011 Draft Thread 5

[keynote]

Simmons' $.02 on the debunked(?) McGee + #6 for #2 rumor:

TRADE NO. 2: Washington trades Javale McGee (25 cents) and the no. 6 pick (30 cents) to Minnesota for its no. 2 pick (50 cents) and Anthony Randolph (dime). Final tally: Washington (60 cents); Minnesota (55 cents).

I guess this one depends on your feelings for McGee: Washington believes he's a 50-cent piece and reportedly turned down a variation of this deal; I think he's a quarter and would rather build around John Wall and Derrick Williams than John Wall, Javale McGee, and the Turkish Guy (or the Lithuanian Guy, or the Congolese Guy). Then again, I'm higher on Williams than most: he's a "modern" power forward, a scorer with an inside/outside game who only hurts you defensively on those rare nights when you're facing a low-post beast like Zach Randolph. We also know he doesn't shy away from big moments, as evidenced by his memorable March Madness run (that should count for something, right?). What am I getting with McGee other than someone who lands on SportsCenter's Top 10 Plays twice a week? Yeah, he can block shots, but so what? My buddy House (a huge Wizards fan) says of McGee, "He's the single most fundamentally unsound player I've ever had the displeasure of watching on a consistent basis. He's lost three out of every four plays on defense. His basketball IQ is the same as my son's basketball IQ, and my son doesn't turn one until next month." Sounds like the perfect fit with Michael Beasley! Too bad we'll never know because Washington overvalues McGee.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/669 ... de-picture

FYI, Simmons trotted out a new gimmick for this column: he compares all NBA assets to dollar amounts in order to justify the old adage "always trade three quarters to get a dollar":
- superstars are worth $2
- borderline superstars are worth $1 bill
- borderline all-stars or young stars-to-be (like John Wall): $0.50.
- Andray Blatche: negative $0.10.

[omegatronic3]

Im not crazy about any of the options Ive heard.
Jan Veseley has bust written all over him. I'd say hes just as likely to be a Darko type than anything. They describe him almost the same way they described Darko and he has a nasty streak..ie. not your typica soft Euro jackin 3s.thats great but guess what Darko couldnt do anything else

Im not oposed to giving Blache some competition but there does seem to be some overlap with Mcgee.

Im not a huge Young fan...last season is more likely to be fluke than anything. I just think hes kind of an immature dope so Id be happy to see a new 2 guard here.

I definitely didnt like the idea of trading the 6 and 18 to get Kanter. Kanter also has stiff potential..although id say Bogut is probably his upside.

Just a thought but how about we get Josh Smith for the #6. Hed look pretty good next to Wall.
All in all I dont see improving that much in this draf so might as well take a gamble. The sf from UCLA would be a good pick IMO

..but gues what he cou

[Hoopalotta]

Just saw the panel on NBATV breakdown Vesely, and it made me feel a lot better about him. David Aldridge thinks that the Wizards would play him at PF and groom him to be the next Kirilenko.

I watched about 40 minutes of him yesterday (highlights of games not biased towards one team or the other), I think he's a lot better than we've been making it out, though I don't think we should groom him to play power forward by any means. That's crazy talk unless we're going Doug Mo Nuggets.

The Hoopalotta Report:

The Good:
Smart with good court awareness
High motor, 94-foot player who displays passion for the game
Mad bounce and solid "actually shows up in games" athletic base. Not empty gym athleticism.
Looks like a good defender - head on a swivel, slides very, very well for his size.
Brings good toughness, though this is hurt by his being skinny. Not afraid of contact.
Moves extremely well off the ball - good understanding of spacing and angles.
Nice cuts and rolls in particular.
A better utility passer than his assist numbers would indicate;
Skilled enough overall to play on the wing if you've got shot creators elsewhere
100% Unselfish and a team player
Good habits overall as far as boxing out, getting back, helping knocked-over guys get up etc.
Has something of a post game - offsets his skinny with scrap. Transferable? Not sure.
Draws fouls at a very respectable rate going to the basket.
Played a 60 game season with 1,400 minutes, so he's a steely-eyed campaigner.

The Bad:
Skinny - this undercuts many aspects of his game.
As to the long ball - he's a mediocre shooter hitting 32% on near NBA 3-pointers.
Either a fourth or fifth option starter if he pans out
Upside is there, but only within a roleplayer context; take his name off the Allstar ballot now.
Can handle the ball in utility situations, but not any sort of a Toni Kukoc. Below par for a 3.
Generally dependent on others to create scoring opportunities

The Ugly:
Turnover prone due to his hands (I don't think he commits many of those TO's through bad passes)
Very poor defensive rebounder....though his 2011 Euroleague numbers are worse than his usual.
So, about those free throws......(really a pity considering how he can draw fouls).
Did he just totally deconstruct mentally based on missing all those free-throws?

Warning!
I think he has it, but if he ends up lacking the footspeed to guard 3's, he's a monumental bust as he will get consumed and digested at the 4; absolutely overwhelmed by superior power, night-in, night-out. 6 minutes a game against Al Harrington, OK, but he's not a power forward.

Overall:
You draft him as a glue guy who you hope can impact the game as a super-roleplayer who "just win's, Baby!" in the way Memphis took off when Battier rolled into town.

He's more of a foil and complement than a central piece and you're hoping for a poor man's, lower usage version of "1993 Richard Dumas meets Tayshaun Prince".

[Hoopalotta]

As to the previous Williams versus McGee debate, I'd come down on McGee's side by a good margin.

Right now, it sounds like other teams are only going to be able to offer free agents 3-year contracts compared with incumbent bird-rights holder being able to go 4-years. That is a HUGE swing, so I think the contract is going to work itself out.

After that, to me, you've got Williams as a power forward who's probably average at most everything aside from scoring, where he excels. My view here is that point guard and power forward are the deepest positions in the NBA and you've got a murders row of talent to contend with on a nightly basis, so it's not ideal with how many other responsibilities your interior players have.

I also think Williams "was the same size as Blake Griffin" because he'd been hitting the Pork-Pies when measured. You shave his body fat down to 7-8% and he's the same size as Michael Beasely. At best, he projects to me as an acceptable man defender, but I don't think he'll be much above average on that end of the floor overall. Again, he's probably a so-so rebounder, but not even close to standing out there as a power forward and he's potentially quite poor (Beasley was way better in college). "Average at most everything, but excels as a scorer" is real nice at the 3 or the 2, but not so much at the 4 or the 5. I could be wrong about Williams' career, but that's my reasoning.

I'm definitely interested in the guy, but I'd rather just wait and see our second option be a wing as "accumulating assets" now is just another way of eventually landing a prime piece. I also really think other forwards are going to present themselves to us over the next year or so, maybe none of whom are 2nd option scorers, but who well might have a better overall positive impact.

Javale, I mean, our scoring differential on the year was horrific, but we actually outscored the opposition with him on the court in home games. My feelings on his offensive potential have been blathered upon already, but I think a large segment of his problems defensively would be assuaged if we just had a physical power forward who could, in the vernacular, rotate, body up and rebound the dame ball.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

I agree with that. Kanter may have the bulk to play center but not the shot blocking ability. I think a McGee/ Kanter could work ideally because what one doesn't have, the other brings to the table.

If I were Grunfeld, my draft day agenda would be: 1: Get Kanter, even if it means giving up quite a lot. 2. Get rid of Blatche, even If I sell cheap. 3. Think about giving up Seraphin, #18, and 2012 pick unprotected to get Kanter, this season. 4. Get winners who are mature players. 5. Get shooters

The Wizards need to off-load Blatche and to bring in interior scoring and shooting. I'd roll the dice and stick with Pierre, err, Javale McGee moving forward.

I would also think about putting Flip Saunders on a very short leash--Blatche is his guy. The Wizards need a guy who posts up and owns it inside. That guy needs to be a team guy first. They do better playing Booker for hustle any way.

So, my thing on draft day would be Kanter in and Blatche out, just about by any means necessary.

I'd also get Kenneth Faried.

[Hoopalotta]

I'm seeing this: Whoever picks 2nd is going to take Williams.

I'm suspecting that the Jazz take Kanter at 3 as his weaknesses are nicely offset by Favors' athleticism. Jefferson and Milsap aren't real solutions for where they're at, but they can probably move Milsap for some value and a three man rotation of Favors/Jefferson/Kanter works for at least two years without a noticeable minute crunch (each of Mislap and Jefferson have just two years left on their deals). I don't think the 18th pick is enough for them to drop to 6 where they also miss out on Knight; unless they secretly love one or both of Vesley or Valanciunas, I don't see how they justify that.

Cleveland's in a tough spot, but it sounds like Valanciunas' contract situation isn't a definite to keep him out of the league. They should pick him either way, but the rumors are that it's Tristan Thompson if they don't bite on the big Lithuanian.

Toronto takes Knight.

If Jonas got past Cleveland, we take him and if not, we'll go for Vesley.

That seems like where we're at.

[closg00]

Hands - Are you firing-up the chat room for tonight?

[Hoopalotta]

Yoni-G's final mock on Yahoo looks like what I was thinking (and of course what I was thinking is basically just based on rumors anyway, so, ya' know, that figures):

We're taking Vesley and Donnie Mountjoy according to him.

Not only that, but:

Vesely appears to have received assurances from the Wizards that he’s indeed the pick, according to reports from NBA teams who have spoken with his camp. With the team’s other top options, Valanciunas and Kanter, off the board, this makes plenty of sense, even if Kawhi Leonard did draw some looks here as well.

If Valanciunas somehow slips past Utah, Cleveland and Toronto, the Wizards’ front office is high on his services. Still, it would be difficult for owner Ted Leonsis to sign off on having to wait on Valanciunas for another season, which is an edge for Vesely.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... cn-8686843

Needless to say that if you told me last year that this would be the haul after a year of hard-tanking, I'd have been most uproarious, cantankerous and pugnacious, but I can live with it as things stand now after having slowly been conditioned to the realization that we're more or less SCREWED. Well, I can live with it so long as David Aldridge is wrong and we're projecting him as a small forward with the expectation that that's his slot. Javale and Vesley in the interior together? All I can say is, "Mommy, make it stop."

[closg00]

Vesely has been Ernie's guy from the beginning. Draft expert Nick Young stating that he wanted Vesely was very curious indeed. Well, I hope we get someone at 18 who can counter Vesely's weakness's. Still hoping for a move-up trade.

[Rafael122]

It seems like all signs point to us taking Vesely unless we trade up. Damn...

[FAH1223]

Vessley is gonna be a bust. 100% sure he won't be in the NBA 5 years from now

[Jay81]

what a disaster Ernie and this organization are. Despite all the numbers,scouting,etc and the need for a cant miss player, we are still taking the guy everyone hates.

I know Ted reads all the blogs,RealGM,etc and he is a fool if he lets Ernie draft Vesley.

This organization sucks

[FAH1223]

what a disaster Ernie and this organization are. Despite all the numbers,scouting,etc and the need for a cant miss player, we are still taking the guy everyone hates.

I know Ted reads all the blogs,RealGM,etc and he is a fool if he lets Ernie draft Vesley.

This organization sucks

It's amazing

[Ruzious]

Vessley is gonna be a bust. 100% sure he won't be in the NBA 5 years from now

I'm not 100% sure, but yeah - I'd bet the wife and kids he goes back to Europe after failing in the NBA in a few years.

Getting back to Kanter - he's going 3rd (if not second). When you think about it - it's awfully hard to justify picking Knight ahead of him - no matter what your team needs are. Knight wasn't even convincing as a point guard last season. And there is such a thing as trades - and every team is as eligible to make trades as the Zards are. If the Wiz don't trade up to 3, they aren't getting Kanter.

[theboomking]

I also think Williams "was the same size as Blake Griffin" because he'd been hitting the Pork-Pies when measured. You shave his body fat down to 7-8% and he's the same size as Michael Beasely. At best, he projects to me as an acceptable man defender, but I don't think he'll be much above average on that end of the floor overall. Again, he's probably a so-so rebounder, but not even close to standing out there as a power forward and he's potentially quite poor (Beasley was way better in college). "Average at most everything, but excels as a scorer" is real nice at the 3 or the 2, but not so much at the 4 or the 5. I could be wrong about Williams' career, but that's my reasoning.

So if Williams is at the same weight as Blake, but 2% higher body fat, with comparable sprint and agility times, and better vertical, max vert reach, and standing reach, he is much to fat and compares to a fatter michael beasly? Williams makes most of his hay in the post, using his strength, length and quickness to score and draw fouls. Beasley is a perimeter player. I'm not saying Williams will be as good as Blake Griffin. Just that concerns about Derrick's size are overblown.

Regarding NY and Marshon Brooks, I'm not sure why they are compared so frequently on this board. They are both long, and are both scorers. Marshon is not the pure shooter that Nick is however. Brooks reminds me a little more of Crawford. A volume scorer that is crafty, can create shots and get to the basket.

Also, watching NBATV last night, I saw an interview with Jeremy Tyler. As much of a reputation as he has as a knucklehead, Tyler seemed very well spoken, articulate, and mature, much more so that JaVale, Andray, and NY. Given his obvious physical talents and age, I think he is worth a pick in the late teens or twenties. He's 6'10.5" in shoes, 262 pounds, 7'5" wingspan, 9'2.5" standing reach. Those are legit center measurements. His max vert, sprint and agility testing were also excellent. He reminds me of a poor man's Bynum. If a pick in the late teens or twenties doesn't pan out, it's no big deal. If you hit on a legitimate center in that range, you have scored a major coup.

[nate33]

I don't think it's quite as dire. We've got a 50/50 shot at Kanter. It all boils down to what Utah does. Do they take Kanter or Knight? If they take Knight, a tradeup to Cleveland's #4 pick seems pretty doable.

[Jay81]

Vesley career average will be about 6 pts 4 reb a game. A white Jared Jeffries

[fishercob]

We we we so excited.

[hands11]

Hands - Are you firing-up the chat room for tonight?

I would do that. Good idea.

Ok, just have to get through the work day.

I'm excited for tonight.

[theboomking]

We we we so excited.

Should we kick it at the 6th pick?