Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - 2011 Draft Thread 5

[Ruzious]

So basically your saying if you were a leader, you'd let the inmates run the asylum?

Another thing that makes us different is that I don't lie about what other people say.

If you admittedly said that you'd let your decision making be influenced by what a prospective employee says then exactly how am I'm lying? Your statement above gives authority to what Biyombo said. Authority that I wouldn't give. If I didn't draft Biyombo. It would totally based on questions about his age and offensive ineptitude. Not anything he spouts off at the mouth about.

Don't act like you don't what I meant about your lying about my positions in the past.

[Dat2U]

There is no justifying the Foye/Miller trade. The Etan dump part saved us a total of $3M. Kahn flipped Etan to OKC for a savings of about $4M. (He had to take back one small guaranteed contract, and one small unguaranteed contract.)

Oh sure there is. Added two veteran contributors on a team that was looking to win now/then (dying owner) and cleared up more cap space than you are suggesting given that both Foye and Miller were going into expiring deals. The same cap space that allowed us to take on Hinrich.

No less than Doc Rivers said at the time that the trade made Washington a contender in the EC. That Mike Miller went into a shell and Foye was unable to find a fit in Flip's offense is regrettable and ended in a terrible result, but the trade was easily justifiable at the time.

I hate when we point to other people's opinions to validate a point. Exactly what does Doc Rivers have to do with the Washington Wizards? Is Doc even a GM?

Mike Miller didn't go into a shell, he was already in one. He played the exact same way he did in Minny. Foye was the same player he had been since he came into the league except he wasn't our high draft pick so there was no point in letting him continue to play through his struggles like he was able to with the Wolves.

The trade was a disaster the moment it was made b/c Ernie gave up a top 5 pick for two off-the-bench role players with expiring contracts. Even if we had any level of success and Ernie wanted to keep the team together we'd have been faced with having to fork up long term dollars to keep both otherwise it still would have just been a one year rental of two players. And we already had one of the highest payrolls in the league due to Ernie's cap mismanagement so keeping both and Haywood would have been virtually impossible.

[Tiago]

Jan Vesely has the 1) and 4) except the ability to shoot from 3, something(he's getting better)..I can see a good chemistry between Vesely and John Wall.

Vesely may have 1) but his ability to drive against NBA 3s are a major question mark. He's a turnover machine. He's got no advanced dribbling moves. Basically he's two dribbles and anything beyond that is a TO.

Vesely & Wall may have good chemistry on the break but in half court scenarios I fail to see how Vesely will positively impact the game.

Vesely has an advantage, he's pretty fast, and can develop into a good scoring guy, because he has a good shooting mechanism and smooth release, the tools to be more than a "fast break player".

Turnover machine? 2 turnovers/game is a to machine?

[fishercob]

Motherf-ckers it's Draft Day! Stop ruining my Draft Thread. Take it outside already. Jeeez.

[TGW]

Trouble.

http://twitter.com/#!/wojyahoonba

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Y! Sports Latest Draft Buzz: Atlanta dangling Josh Smith to Minnesota for No. 2 pick, eyeing Enes Kanter. tinyurl.com/685gk82
15 minutes ago

[fishercob]

Trouble.

http://twitter.com/#!/wojyahoonba

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Y! Sports Latest Draft Buzz: Atlanta dangling Josh Smith to Minnesota for No. 2 pick, eyeing Enes Kanter. tinyurl.com/685gk82
15 minutes ago

Meh. What is Minnesota going to do with another tweener forward who doesn't have his head on straight. They're better off picking and keeping Derrick Williams.

[Dat2U]

A small frame? Your reaching. He's not some skinny frail kid. He's got strong base & he's solidly built. He can stand to put on a few more pounds but how many college freshman are finished products physically? And isn't drawing fouls an offensive skill? No prospect did a better job of drawing fouls than Thompson. He's got good on court awareness and has a sense for spacing and knowing when to cut to the basket. He's solid in pick & roll situations. He'll never be a 20 pt scorer but he's a mid range jumper away from being very effective. He's an excellent offensive rebounder and while his defensive rebounding numbers don't stand out, he's active at blocking out which allows his teammates to grab boards (i.e. the Brendan Haywood effect).

He does have a relatively small frame, and while it's a good thing that he draws fouls, it'd be even better if he made at least half his foul shots. He does have potential - like you say, he's fairly long and athletic and has has some success defensively, but I've rated him around Hickson level ability. And since I wasn't particularly a Hickson fan, I'm not particularly a Thompson fan. He's an okay prospect - nothing more nothing less. At least he's not quite as overrated as his teammate Jordan Hamilton - who hopefully won't be the Wiz pick at 18.

We'll agree to disagree on the frame & the Hickson comparison. I never saw Hickson display much b-ball IQ. Nor have I ever seen Hickson commit to defending like Thompson has.

[Dat2U]

If you admittedly said that you'd let your decision making be influenced by what a prospective employee says then exactly how am I'm lying? Your statement above gives authority to what Biyombo said. Authority that I wouldn't give. If I didn't draft Biyombo. It would totally based on questions about his age and offensive ineptitude. Not anything he spouts off at the mouth about.

Don't act like you don't what I meant about your lying about my positions in the past.

Lie about your positions? Your going to have to point that out to me. I would never purposely lie. If I said something that was incorrect then correct me on it and I'll happily admit I'm wrong.

[TheBigThree]

I seriously don't understand this Kanter to the Jazz talk. That seems like a terrible fit to me.

[keynote]

Trouble.

http://twitter.com/#!/wojyahoonba

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Y! Sports Latest Draft Buzz: Atlanta dangling Josh Smith to Minnesota for No. 2 pick, eyeing Enes Kanter. tinyurl.com/685gk82
15 minutes ago

Meh. What is Minnesota going to do with another tweener forward who doesn't have his head on straight. They're better off picking and keeping Derrick Williams.

Unless they feel that Smith is better at defending SFs than Williams will be. Smith is a tweener, yes, but I think he'd do a better job of staying in front of 3s than Williams will.

However, if I'm MIN, I don't touch Smith with a 10-ft pole. He has a low basketball IQ, and he's got a bit of a knucklehead rep following him as well. His own fan base boos whenever he shoots from the perimeter. He's not the kind of veteran leader that I'd want to lead my young stars as they mature.

[Ruzious]

If you admittedly said that you'd let your decision making be influenced by what a prospective employee says then exactly how am I'm lying? Your statement above gives authority to what Biyombo said. Authority that I wouldn't give. If I didn't draft Biyombo. It would totally based on questions about his age and offensive ineptitude. Not anything he spouts off at the mouth about.

Don't act like you don't what I meant about your lying about my positions in the past.

Lie about your positions? Your going to have to point that out to me. I would never purposely lie. If I said something that was incorrect then correct me on it and I'll happily admit I'm wrong.

There were 3 times in the last few weeks. I pointed them out very clearly when you did them. I wouldn't have called you a liar if you had said something after I pointed them out. When you don't say anything after I pointed out each time you misrepresented my views, I'm not left with much except being pissed off.

[Dat2U]

Trouble.

http://twitter.com/#!/wojyahoonba

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
Y! Sports Latest Draft Buzz: Atlanta dangling Josh Smith to Minnesota for No. 2 pick, eyeing Enes Kanter. tinyurl.com/685gk82
15 minutes ago

Meh. What is Minnesota going to do with another tweener forward who doesn't have his head on straight. They're better off picking and keeping Derrick Williams.

Hmm, makes sense to me. Josh is more of a PF like Love but offensively their skills seem to be a good match for each other as Love is very adept at stepping out and hitting the 3. Josh provides the ability to defend & deter shots on the other side of the court.

Just means they'd need to deal Beasley. I don't see any problem there.

Personally I'd run Love out their with Smith & Anthony Randolph on the front line. Lots of length & athleticism to offset Love's floor bound ways.

They may also need to deal Wesley Johnson & Jonny Flynn for a legit two for better roster balance. They've got a gaping hole at the SG position.

After the draft I'd be very interested in a S&T involving Nick Young & Wesley Johnson.

[fishercob]

DraftExpress Jonathan Givony
Here comes the first "mock draft grenade" I'm hearing. And its a big one. Waiting for confirmation...

[TGW]

DraftExpress Jonathan Givony
Here comes the first "mock draft grenade" I'm hearing. And its a big one. Waiting for confirmation...

I think it revolves around the #7/Felton/Tony Parker.

[pineappleheadindc]

DraftExpress Jonathan Givony
Here comes the first "mock draft grenade" I'm hearing. And its a big one. Waiting for confirmation...

Oh. No.

Why am I so conditioned, as a Wizards fan, to expect any unexpected happening to end up screwing the Wiz?

[WizarDynasty]

Here' the truth the way i see it. Utah has Vesely ranked second on their board. He fits perfectly with the AK47 fan base more than any other team in teh league. the problem is that the GM is worried about the pressure Vesely will face with teh second overall selection. Minnesota want's J Val but contract concerns are what delay them from drafting him. Cleveland wants Derrick Williams - because he fits the lebron mold better than anyone else in the draft but they realize that Utah needs a point guard more than a small forward to fill Deron Will's shoes. Then you have toronto who needs a defensive center basically JVal or a point guard. The problem with Toronto is that they aren't sure if Knight is a pure point guard or not but they know he probably has a higher upside than Calderon.
The wizards then are looking for small forward and or post rebounding help and basically more complete front court players since they had Yi, Armstrong, and undersized rookies longing heavy minutes at the forward and back up p/f center spots.
Cleveland realizes that they don't have a stable point guard to lead the team because of baron's injury history so they choose kyrie over Derrick. Minnesota, wants Val but feels like they can get Val plus additional assets so they gauge who will trade up and still allow them to get JVal. That includes Toronto and the Wizards. The problem Sota faces is that Cleveland actually feels better with JVal over Kanter because JVal reminds them of their most successful center who they watched all these years, Ilgauskas. Sota could risk losing JVal to Cleveland or Toronto or bet that he will drop because of his contract situation.
So Cleveland wants==Kyrie***
Sota wants==JVal***---they draft Enes*** or D.Will and make a contigent trade that if JVal slips past Toronto or Cleveland--they gamble and draft Enes since they have trade history with Wash.
Utah ==wanted Kyrie but second on their board is Vesely because of AK47 success history. They facethe same problems as minesota and Jval selection.--Utah wants Vesely but drafts d.Wil. Hoping to trade D.Will for Vesely and pick up assets--Contingent trade with Wash or whoever picks Vesely.
Cleveland back on the clock==Doesnt really like a hickson Kanter back court because Hickson major strength is also rebounding. They Hope that D.Will falls here but Utah and Sota feel they can trade D.Will and get who they want plus additional assets.
Cleveland sees that Kanter and D.Will off the board and they already drafted a point guard---this is where they may go way outside of draft predictions with Tristan Thompson--but really they are looking for someone to come off the bench and play powerforward or center because they have no defense wants Vareajao and Hickson take a rest on the bench.
Then we come to toronto. who knows what they are going to do. they want a defensive big that fits well with Bargnani who has bulk to play center and prefer a shotblocker. there are none of the board. So they go with knight.
So the team that will be hard to figure out is cleveland with their 4th pick since kanter and Dwill are gone.
Cleveland can't have Vesely or Leonard as their longterm replacement for lebron---the pain the fans will feel as they notice the huge drop off in talent. Because of this Cleveland may take the risk of going Dwill first and night at 4.

So cleveland probably goes with Kanter believing that they can make a trade later and get a better pieces that what is offered in the draft.
Then you have Toronto-who will pick up knight if he falls or Kanter. They are basically just want value since they believe that J

Ok edit- Cleveland ==D.Will
Sota==Kanter
Utah==D.Will
Clev.==Knight
Tor.==JVal
Wash==Ves--immediately trades with sota or utah whoever demands less.

or Clev.==Kyri
Sota=Kant.
Utah==D.Will
Clev. Knight
Tor.Jval
Wash. Ves.

Sota and Utah don't really want the player they select but feel they can get value out Wash by getting the 18th pick and still getting Ves.--Utah or Jval.--Sota

Kahn feels that if JVal is off the board and he can't get Wash to sell him the title to their home, he can sit on Kanter next season at center even though he does the exact same thing as love.

Kahn's problem is the Utah has shown in the past to fire off on trades with their big D.Will trade last year and wizards would be happy trading Vesely and 18th for D.Will.

If Cleveland's gm had more experience trading he probably is looking to trade 2 lottery selections to grab D.Wll from Utah due Kahn's broken rookie mistake of playing "let's rape EG".not realizing that we hve Ted the Savior guiding the ship with his wisdom from the Cap success..

Everyone is bored so i figure i lead by example and give us some blather to burn the time.

[Higga]

I wish you knew how to space your posts out more WizD, you actually bring up some good points but it's so hard to read.

[hands11]

I wish you knew how to space your posts out more WizD, you actually bring up some good points but it's so hard to read.

Dude

Give it up. I tried to get him to do that for over a year before I gave up.

[Dat2U]

Lie about your positions? Your going to have to point that out to me. I would never purposely lie. If I said something that was incorrect then correct me on it and I'll happily admit I'm wrong.

There were 3 times in the last few weeks. I pointed them out very clearly when you did them. I wouldn't have called you a liar if you had said something after I pointed them out. When you don't say anything after I pointed out each time you misrepresented my views, I'm not left with much except being pissed off.

3 times? I haven't been on here consistently enough to follow along with every post that's made so if I didn't respond to it, I missed it. I know I posted about the whole Curry/Foye debate. I think there was a discussion about Corey Brewer a while back but outside of that I'm drawing a blank. I certainly don't mind pissing people off but I'm not here to mislead or misrepresent your views. Feel free to clear up anything I said that was incorrect, especially since I'm glued to the board today. I do apologize as I certainly consider you one of the more respected posters around here even if I disagree with 50% of what you say, lol.

[Ruzious]

Lie about your positions? Your going to have to point that out to me. I would never purposely lie. If I said something that was incorrect then correct me on it and I'll happily admit I'm wrong.

There were 3 times in the last few weeks. I pointed them out very clearly when you did them. I wouldn't have called you a liar if you had said something after I pointed them out. When you don't say anything after I pointed out each time you misrepresented my views, I'm not left with much except being pissed off.

3 times? I haven't been on here consistently enough to follow along with every post that's made so if I didn't respond to it, I missed it. I know I posted about the whole Curry/Foye debate. I think there was a discussion about Corey Brewer a while back but outside of that I'm drawing a blank. I certainly don't mind pissing people off but I'm not here to mislead or misrepresent your views. Feel free to clear up anything I said that was incorrect, especially since I'm glued to the board today. I do apologize as I certainly consider you one of the more respected posters around here even if I disagree with 50% of what you say, lol.

Apology accepted. Just a suggestion to avoid problems in the future - for everyone: It's fine to call somebody out - when they were actually wrong - but after you do that, if there's a response telling you that you misrepresented what they said - respond - one way or the other. Otherwise, there's going to be a festering resentment.