The Jonas Valanciunas Thread

Post #1021 » by **DG88** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:48 am

One thing you'll notice, Val in 2010 is smaller than Val in 2011. Just look at the clips of him when he played for Lithuania and when he played with Rytas. It shows that he can add more to his frame.

A_wildstabatanything · Post #1022 » by **A_wildstabatanything** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:50 am

UTJazzFan_Echo1 wrote:I really don't see Knight or Kemba as just role player PG's in comparison to the guys you have right now...Bayless is a SG and Calderon is just flat out horrible on defense, he kills you guys on D.

I'm not trying to be rude, I'm a big Raptors fan and watch a lot of your games. I was just shocked to see you guys pass on Knight when he fell right into your laps. I thought you guys would eat him up.

I don't get the strategy of waiting to get a PG next year...there is no guarantee you will get anyone better next year at PG and I guess if you guys want to be contempt on being bad for another year to get another lottery pick then so be it but that's not a winning strategy....mainly because you know, you're still losing.

Just saying is all...

Knight isn't any more of a PG than Bayless is. At least with Jerryd it won't hurt to move on should we find another option. Had we drafted Brandon we would have probably been locked in.

Post #1023 » by **darth_federer** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:50 am

Another reason I love this pick. Rest of the article is insider and nobody subscribes to Basketball Prospectus. Biggest strengths are help defense and rebounding. Sound like the perfect compliment to someone on this team?

Using Basketball Prospectus' college basketball translations, we have determined player comparisons for 2011 draftees. Through game tape, our Sebastian Pruiti explores what makes these players so similar as well as what these draftees are going to have to improve on to validate the comparisons.

In the 2011 draft class, there seems to be a influx of skilled bigs playing overseas. Maybe the most interesting of the bigs is Jonas Valanciunas, who looks like he could be the first of the internationals selected. Valanciunas' comparison is to Tyson Chandler, the big man who anchored the Dallas Mavericks' defense during their title run.

What's Similar?

Help Defense. The first thing that really sticks out when watching Valanciunas on tape is that defensively he is a terrific help defender. Valanciunas knows when to leave his man to help on dribble penetration or a cut to the rim, putting himself in position to contest or block the shot. This is an art that Tyson Chandler has mastered over the years and he really put it on display in Dallas this past season:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRqt1UVl5fA&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/art ... cleid=1771

Relentless88 · Post #1024 » by **Relentless88** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:51 am

I can't believe how many people hate this pick. I log onto Facebook and everybody hates it.

BC made the right move. Knight and Walker are not franchise PGs. We can give Bayless a shot, and if it doesn't work out, bring in Kabongo next year.

Visceral · Post #1025 » by **Visceral** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:52 am

Relentless88 wrote:I can't believe how many people hate this pick. I log onto Facebook and everybody hates it.

BC made the right move. Knight and Walker are not franchise PGs. We can give Bayless a shot, and if it doesn't work out, bring in Kabongo next year.

Our collective fanbase regrettably has a lot of idiots in it. It saddens me.

Raps in 4 · Post #1026 » by **Raps in 4** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:53 am

Relentless88 wrote:I can't believe how many people hate this pick. I log onto Facebook and everybody hates it.

BC made the right move. Knight and Walker are not franchise PGs. We can give Bayless a shot, and if it doesn't work out, bring in Kabongo next year.

Most people think he's another 3-point shooting bigman who doesn't rebound or play defence.

Post #1027 » by **darth_federer** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:53 am

A_wildstabatanything wrote:
UTJazzFan_Echo1 wrote:I really don't see Knight or Kemba as just role player PG's in comparison to the guys you have right now...Bayless is a SG and Calderon is just flat out horrible on defense, he kills you guys on D.

I'm not trying to be rude, I'm a big Raptors fan and watch a lot of your games. I was just shocked to see you guys pass on Knight when he fell right into your laps. I thought you guys would eat him up.

I don't get the strategy of waiting to get a PG next year...there is no guarantee you will get anyone better next year at PG and I guess if you guys want to be contempt on being bad for another year to get another lottery pick then so be it but that's not a winning strategy....mainly because you know, you're still losing.

Just saying is all...

Knight isn't any more of a PG than Bayless is. At least with Jerryd it won't hurt to move on. We wouldn't have been locked in had we chosen BK.

+ 1

They re really really similar statistically too

Player comparisons are probably as old as the NBA Draft. As we seek to understand how players will translate to the NBA, using the experience of players with similar skills is helpful. Yet the danger is that subjective comparisons will be colored by irrelevant factors. Our similarity scores take a different approach, using NCAA statistical performance adjusted both for the transition from college to the pros and strength of schedule. Players are compared in 13 categories, including height and weight, to their predecessors within six months of the same age at the time they were drafted. (See here for more details on the process.)

3 Brandon Knight Kentucky PG Jerryd Bayless 95.3

8 Jonas Valanciunas Lietuvos Rytas C Dwight Howard 90.3

In this case, because Valanciunas is so young, the pool of potential matches is very small. Take out age as a factor and Tyson Chandler pops up repeatedly, which is why we used him for Sebastian Pruiti's breakdown.

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/art ... cleid=1777

Yeezus_ · Post #1028 » by **Yeezus_** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:53 am

Relentless88 wrote:I can't believe how many people hate this pick. I log onto Facebook and everybody hates it.

BC made the right move. Knight and Walker are not franchise PGs. We can give Bayless a shot, and if it doesn't work out, bring in Kabongo next year.

My facebook home feed was going crazy with the hate...

Man, this was the best pick available.

Raps in 4 · Post #1029 » by **Raps in 4** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:54 am

Visceral wrote:
Relentless88 wrote:I can't believe how many people hate this pick. I log onto Facebook and everybody hates it.

BC made the right move. Knight and Walker are not franchise PGs. We can give Bayless a shot, and if it doesn't work out, bring in Kabongo next year.

Our collective fanbase regrettably has a lot of idiots in it. It saddens me.

Most Raptors fans on Facebook had the Heat logo as their display picture until last week.

akaFlip · Post #1030 » by **akaFlip** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:54 am

Rapsobsessed7 wrote:DX said his buyout is 2.5 million

- Toronto can contribute 500,000 maximum to a buyout
- $3,248,112 is I think his salary if signed

So he could pay 2 million and still make 1.2 million. If he really does want to come over.

Around 2:15

EDIT: Fail embed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqIDnR7q ... ded#at=144

WhatsaTDot · Post #1031 » by **WhatsaTDot** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:54 am

J Dilla wrote:
darth_federer wrote:Hopefully Bargnani is on his way out. I cant take another season of that lazy bum.

Honest question, do you really see Colangelo trading away Bargnani?

I just don't see it. He trades Bargnani, he's admitting the mistake. Then people will question his decision to select Jonas (don't like the pick at all btw).

What? Trading Bargnani doesn't have anything to do with questioning the JV pick.

James_Raptors · Post #1032 » by **James_Raptors** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:54 am

UssjTrunks wrote:
UTJazzFan_Echo1 wrote:I can't believe you guys passed on all the PG's in this draft, I feel like you guys really need an upgrade at pg sometime in the near future. From now on if there is a foreign guy in the mix around the Raptors pick I'm just going to assume you guys take him. I was really pulling for you guys to land Knight or Kemba....

Says the team that just drafted another Caucasian Euro. You now have 4, just like us. From now on if there is a foreign guy in the mix around the Jazz pick I'm just going to assume you guys take him

Not to choose sides or get off topic, but the Jazz, who went 39-43 this past season, just went through a sub .500 year for only the 2nd time in the past 28 years, including 8 division titles, if my memory serves me correct. As an NBA franchise, the Raptors can only hope and pray we have the same sort of success that the Jazz has had over the past, nearly, three decades. Granted, they haven't won ships, but they've been pretty damn competative. Granted I'd hope for a few titles in that stretch, and it feels a bit treadmill-ish, but holy crap that like mount everest compared to what our dinosaur team has done in the past decade and a half.

Visceral · Post #1033 » by **Visceral** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:55 am

UssjTrunks wrote:
Relentless88 wrote:I can't believe how many people hate this pick. I log onto Facebook and everybody hates it.

BC made the right move. Knight and Walker are not franchise PGs. We can give Bayless a shot, and if it doesn't work out, bring in Kabongo next year.

Most people think he's another 3-point shooting bigman who doesn't rebound or play defence.

Jonas would probably puke at the thought of having to take a 3. lol

UTJazzFan_Echo1 · Post #1034 » by **UTJazzFan_Echo1** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:55 am

Considering our guy can actually speak English to an understandable degree and was slotted to play at an American college last season...and when exactly was the last foreign player we drafted that was ever expected to play? AK? Smh....

I'm not hatting on Val, he is a good prospect...I just don't get why you guys took him in this draft at #5 with all the legit PG prospects out there who could fill a much more needed position for your team right now. No need to get defensive about it...

I'll just leave you guys with that. I'm not getting into an argument over it, I just wanted to drop my two cents. Best of luck to you guys and your team.

Nocturne · Post #1035 » by **Nocturne** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:55 am

Thinking about this more, one thing that I'm happy about is that despite BC's contract only being for two more years, he's not trying to do any quick fix to our team; there's a very small chance that Jonas will be able to contribute in the NBA within the next 2 years. He's definitely not trying to get a winning record and it seems he's willing to tank one more year to get another high lottery pick for next year where the draft should be much better and deeper than this year's.

Post #1036 » by **DG88** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:55 am

darth_federer wrote:Another reason I love this pick. Rest of the article is insider and nobody subscribes to Basketball Prospectus. Biggest strengths are help defense and rebounding. Sound like the perfect compliment to someone on this team?

Using Basketball Prospectus' college basketball translations, we have determined player comparisons for 2011 draftees. Through game tape, our Sebastian Pruiti explores what makes these players so similar as well as what these draftees are going to have to improve on to validate the comparisons.

In the 2011 draft class, there seems to be a influx of skilled bigs playing overseas. Maybe the most interesting of the bigs is Jonas Valanciunas, who looks like he could be the first of the internationals selected. Valanciunas' comparison is to Tyson Chandler, the big man who anchored the Dallas Mavericks' defense during their title run.

What's Similar?

Help Defense. The first thing that really sticks out when watching Valanciunas on tape is that defensively he is a terrific help defender. Valanciunas knows when to leave his man to help on dribble penetration or a cut to the rim, putting himself in position to contest or block the shot. This is an art that Tyson Chandler has mastered over the years and he really put it on display in Dallas this past season:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRqt1UVl5fA&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

http://www.basketballprospectus.com/art ... cleid=1771

If he becomes anything close to Tyson Chandler on defense. Add his great pick and roll skills and ft shooting we got ourselves a great center. He looks about the same size as Chandler in that video as well. Plus he can still add an extra 10-15lbs on that 240lbs frame. I'm loving this pick more and more

BillyGM · Post #1037 » by **BillyGM** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:56 am

C. Valanciunas
PF. Ed Davis
SF. Kleiza
SG.Derozan
PG. :-?

Bargnani could be traded for decent point guard. :wink:

clockwork · Post #1038 » by **clockwork** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:57 am

UTJazzFan_Echo1 wrote:I can't believe you guys passed on all the PG's in this draft, I feel like you guys really need an upgrade at pg sometime in the near future. From now on if there is a foreign guy in the mix around the Raptors pick I'm just going to assume you guys take him. I was really pulling for you guys to land Knight or Kemba....

They have virtually the same problem as Cleveland, too much money at the point.

Relentless88 · Post #1039 » by **Relentless88** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:58 am

UTJazzFan_Echo1 wrote:Considering our guy can actually speak English to an understandable degree and was slotted to play at an American college last season...and when exactly was the last foreign player we drafted that was ever expected to play? AK? Smh....

I'm not hatting on Val, he is a good prospect...I just don't get why you guys took him in this draft at #5 with all the legit PG prospects out there who could fill a much more needed position for your team right now. No need to get defensive about it...

I'll just leave you guys with that. I'm not getting into an argument over it, I just wanted to drop my two cents. Best of luck to you guys and your team.

Which legit PG prospects? Knight? Walker? They are not legit, if you actually watch basketball. Knight is no different than Bayless. The only PG I wanted in this draft was Irving.

OneTime86 · Post #1040 » by **OneTime86** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:59 am

Relentless88 wrote:I can't believe how many people hate this pick. I log onto Facebook and everybody hates it.

BC made the right move. Knight and Walker are not franchise PGs. We can give Bayless a shot, and if it doesn't work out, bring in Kabongo next year.

+1 Some of our fans are really clueless. There was a guy who implied Alabi was as good as Jonas, he just hasn't had a chance yet.

Are you happy with the Raptors selection 5th overall?