Slather me, Lather me, Blather me - 2011 Draft Thread 5

[WizarDynasty]

Vesely has heart. He inspires others around him to match his intensity just like wall. Vesely is a scrapper, he is going to sprint back on defense to stop a fast break. He facilitates offenses with his spacing and knows where his team mates are suppose to be on plays, was the extension of the coach. anyone that watched thornton knows that this skill is not there with alot of small forwards.

He is mismatch with any shooting guard that guards him in the post. HE improve our bbiq offensively and defensively and he is fast. it's going to be very hard for team to cheat on wall in a fast pace game. Vesely mentally knows how to exploit a defense quickly.

Singleton, have we ever had a lockdown perimeter defender before in the last 20 years. Singleton on this roster is groundbreaking. We finally have small forwards that aren't sg's pretending to be small forwards and we have them at the beginning of their careers, not after they have deteriorated with injuries and we are only seeing a shell of who they use to be.

Now we have to build a culture where the number one theme is outsmarting the other team's offense and defense every night. I think we have the total team iq to do it. Flip has got to make sure he is using cutting edge basketball strategy and not keeping elements of his playbook that the majority of league secretly knows is outdated which is why ted may need a private consultant but other than that...Ted and EG have the foundation for that..uh dynasty. A big piece is going to be Seraphin and how quickly we can get his basketball iq and reaction speed to complex defense to at elite level. His strength and ability to play as high iq offensive and defensive bench player eill be the X factor to our domination of our division. the true problem is his language barrier. We need his strength rebounding, and tremendous improvement of his defensive adn offensive awareness of playoof team basketball strategy if we plan on making noise next season. We will see if management can figure out a way to transform a primary french speaking low bbiq to a split second reaction, high bbiq player offensively and defensively.
If we can't do it with him, we need a free agent with exactly seraphin's physical profile--who does understand complex concepts of opposing team's playoff team strategies how we overcome. Very difficult to get to this level with a big that barely knows the language.

[sfam]

First off - 3 firsts for Kanter? No frickin way. The guy is not the next Karl Malone.

Second -Vesely: Its good to see some of the hate diminish. Keep in mind, the dude's head appears screwed on right. He looks to be a guy that eats, sleeps and breathes BBall (with GF moments as well of course). He's gonna keep working on his game. I wouldn't be at all surprised if in a few years he has a 70%+ FT score and a decent mid range and 3 point shot. If so, Vesely could approach All-Star status.

In other words, its kinda crazy to talk about Mcgee's freakish upside potential while talking about Vesely's bust potential. Vesely has more upside than McGee at this point. Tons of respected analysts like Doug Gottlieb love him. And he will produce well next year - he won't be a bench warmer all season. I see him having at least 15-20 minutes per game within a month or two.

And apparently, this was the guy Wall wanted, so I'm all on board with Vesely and am excited to see him play.

In short, at this point its really hard to grade the Wizards draft as anything other than an A. Two thumbs way up for EG!

Edit: I'm starting to hate SlideIt's error correction

[TGW]

Vesely has heart. He inspires others around him to match his intensity just like wall. Vesely is a scrapper, he is going to sprint back on defense to stop a fast break. He facilitates offenses with his spacing and knows where his team mates are suppose to be on plays, was the extension of the coach. anyone that watched thornton knows that this skill is not there with alot of small forwards.

He is mismatch with any shooting guard that guards him in the post. HE improve our bbiq offensively and defensively and he is fast. it's going to be very hard for team to cheat on wall in a fast pace game. Vesely mentally knows how to exploit a defense quickly.

Singleton, have we ever had a lockdown perimeter defender before in the last 20 years. Singleton on this roster is groundbreaking. We finally have small forwards that aren't sg's pretending to be small forwards and we have them at the beginning of their careers, not after they have deteriorated with injuries and we are only seeing a shell of who they use to be.

Now we have to build a culture where the number one theme is outsmarting the other team's offense and defense every night. I think we have the total team iq to do it. Flip has got to make sure he is using cutting edge basketball strategy and not keeping elements of his playbook that the majority of league secretly knows is outdated which is why ted may need a private consultant but other than that...Ted and EG have the foundation for that..uh dynasty. A big piece is going to be Seraphin and how quickly we can get his basketball iq and reaction speed to complex defense to at elite level. His strength and ability to play as high iq offensive and defensive bench player eill be the X factor to our domination of our division. the true problem is his language barrier. We need his strength rebounding, and tremendous improvement of his defensive adn offensive awareness of playoof team basketball strategy if we plan on making noise next season. We will see if management can figure out a way to transform a primary french speaking low bbiq to a split second reaction, high bbiq player offensively and defensively.
If we can't do it with him, we need a free agent with exactly seraphin's physical profile--who does understand complex concepts of opposing team's playoff team strategies how we overcome. Very difficult to get to this level with a big that barely knows the language.

Great post.

And thanks for the spacing btw.

[Illuminaire]

My prediction is that Rashard has played his last game for us and we Amnesty Ray-Gun him

Pew-pew pew!

[keynote]

Vesely has heart. He inspires others around him to match his intensity just like wall. Vesely is a scrapper, he is going to sprint back on defense to stop a fast break. He facilitates offenses with his spacing and knows where his team mates are suppose to be on plays, was the extension of the coach. anyone that watched thornton knows that this skill is not there with alot of small forwards.

He is mismatch with any shooting guard that guards him in the post. HE improve our bbiq offensively and defensively and he is fast. it's going to be very hard for team to cheat on wall in a fast pace game. Vesely mentally knows how to exploit a defense quickly.

In general, I appreciate your post, but why would a shooting guard be guarding him in the post? That's a mismatch for most NBA Fs.

[The Consiglieri]

Portrait of a stock-dropper.

4. Jordan Hamilton, SF, Denver Nuggets (26): Hamilton was taken by the Mavericks and, after mass confusion, ended up being part of a three-way trade that sent him to Denver. But most had the Texas swingman pegged in the 15-20 range. And when he dropped past Houston at 23, it looked like almost a certainty that Oklahoma City would snatch him up at 24.

Yet, he was passed over. There was word that Texas coach Rick Barnes warned teams that Hamilton is uncoachable and that's the reason he slipped. A couple weeks ago he was a borderline lottery pick, but on draft night he barely survived the first round.

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssport ... 4/30222316

Interesting, did Denver do their homework or just didn't care? Teams usally get burned this way, but at 26, Denver said WTF, let's do it.

That's pretty darn shady, if Barnes did that, if you don't like the kid, don't do the recomendation, but don't sow salt in the kids future. Jebus, that's messed up. Hope that isn't true. When kids asked me for recs that I couldn't provide due to their performance, i didn't say no, and bash them to their target schools, I simply said, "I'm sorry, I can't for x,y,or z reason." Glad we didnt draft him. I liked him for his talent, didnt realize he had such issues.

[NbdyBeatsTheWiz]

\

Maybe I am speaking from years of PTSD from losing C-Webb, Sheed, and Ben Wallace- but I feel like a potential beast like Kanter does not come around every year, and I would be willing to overpay at least somewhat to get him. I would not have offered the 2012 pick but I think I would have been willing to give it up- and I think we probably could have gotten back an additional asset ex maybe Minnesota's #20 pick.

Hopefully I will be completely wrong and Vesely will turn out to be this glorious Slavic amalgam of Dr. J, Tom Chambers, and KG that he is being hyped as by some...

The key word there is potential. If you're willing to give up 6+18+next year's lotto pick you better be positive he's a beast. I guess I'm unwilling to pencil him in as such based simply on his size, body fat, measurements, and small sample size of actual play. I would have loved to take a chance on him. But not for that cost. Not unless he's got a Tim Duncan or Blake Griffin type resume.

I could put the "potential beast" label on a lot of the guys in the lotto, including Vesley. And I don't think a lot of people are "hyping" Vesley as much as pulling him out from beneath the bus we were throwing him under.

[Wizardspride]

First off - 3 firsts for Kanter? No frickin way. The guy is not the next Karl Malone.

Timberwolves fans seem to think that would've been fair compensation.

[SumTingWong]

The early returns are in and so far things seem promising.

Washington Wizards: Jan Vesely, Chris Singleton. Grade: A+. The Wizards got two of the best steals of the draft. Vesely will bring aggression and athleticism. Singleton, defense and versatility. They knocked this out of the park.

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssport ... 4/30222506

Washington Wizards: The Wizards very quietly had a terrific draft. First Jan Vesely was available, who fits a need for them at slashing forward. With his athleticism and aggression, he makes a perfect partner to run the break with John Wall. Then, miraculously, Chris Singleton tumbled all the way down to No.18 where the Wizards jumped all over him. Singleton is a lottery talent that fell out of the top 14. He gives the Wizards the ability to move Andray Blatche if they can find a taker for his contract. He can rebound and defend exceptionally well. Singleton's length and athleticism, combined with a chip on his shoulder from dropping, makes him a great pick for the Wizards. Shelvin Mack in the second round was a great value pick for backup point guard.

http://eye-on-basketball.blogs.cbssport ... 4/30222126

INDIVIDUAL WINNERS-
Jan Vesely: Underrated as everyone talked about Kanter and Valanciunas, Vesely not only winds up with a good team fit for himself, but stole the highlight of the night with a kiss on the mouth of his lady friend. Then he said "I like the John Wall game" in his TV interview. Vesely came off incredibly cool for a 21-year-old Euro who can't shoot.

[The Consiglieri]

3 potential lottery picks(6,18 and a 1st next year) for Kanter. No Thanks. Lebron or Wade yes...

what if those 3 picks would of been Harrison Barnes, Vesely and Singelton for Kanter?

im not saying this is a good trade but i seriously dont get the infatuation this board has with barnes

I'm not a big fan, I don't like Barnes' limitations, lots of implications from scouts that his ceiling is rather limited, but also a lot of takes suggesting that he was a perfect fit for Wall at the 3. I don't care, my key is that '12 is chockfull of talent, and at worst, should have a lot of depth, and at best, could be an astounding draft. Trade that for a Center with a ceiling of "good", or a 3/4 tweener with a ceiling of "good"? And throw Vesely and Singleton in the bargain? Hell freaking no. And again, agree on Barnes, I like Barnes, but he's a consolation prize in that '12 draft as of now, not the grand prize by any stretch.

[LyricalRico]

DA appears to me to be way off on this one. He can guard on the wing, but you can't put him against a guy who's just going to lower his shoulder and plow into you.

And just who's going to do that?

Josh Smith?
Ryan Anderson?
Tyrus Thomas?
Chris Bosh?

Those are the PFs in our division. No shoulder-dippers there. How about the rest of the East:

Bargnani
Humphries
Garnett
Hansbrough
Boozer
Hickson
Gooden
Brand
Villanueva/Daye
Stoudamire

Other than Amare (who's going to get his anyway), I don't see anybody that's going to completely overpower a guy who is 6'11, 240 and could be heavier by the time the season begins. I think it's a phantom argument, and it wouldn't even be an issue if Vesely wasn't European.

[fishercob]

Well, Brand and Boozer will, but your point is still valid. A filled-out Vesely can play a decent amount of PF in the future. And when there's a power post player on the court against him, you can bring in Booker or perhaps Seraphin.

[Illuminaire]

That's a good point, Rico.

There are specific matchups we'd need to avoid, but Vesely can give most PFs the Haywood treatment... even if he's giving ground, you still have to shoot over his extendo-arms.

I'm moderately excited by a Singleton-Vesely forward combo. That's a lot of length and athleticism on the defensive end. (It's also a lot of bricks on the offensive end... Hopla!)

[Hoopalotta]

^ Except that Vesley isn't 240 by the eyeball test, it's just what he's listed as - he's probably more like 225 or 230 and has been matched up with small forwards out on the wing in all the game film I've seen. He starts at small forward - It's not a phantom argument at all and, yes, I think half those dudes would pound him.

I believe he's a natural small forward who can and should play on the wing or post up smaller guys. In that Locke scouting report, he's matched up with Flip Murray of all people. It's a wide gulf between Kris Humphries and Flip Murray.

[The Consiglieri]

Yeah I would've been PO'd had we given up a future 1st as well as the 6+18. As much as I wanted to see Kanter in a Wiz uni, if doesn't hit his ceiling at an All-Star level big man I'd be willing to put money on Vesley+Singleton+a likely lotto pick next year >>>> Kanter.

I haven't heard anyone anywhere suggesting Kantner is going to be anything better than good at the next level. His ceiling seems to be universally seen as "sub all star good". That is borderline not good enough at 6, let alone not good enough for 6, 18 and a probable top 5-10 in a great future draft that could be higher (just ask the clippers about how wise it was to include an unprotected future one in what was a salary dump deal).

Only way i would have done that trade is if it was protected next year, and if we got back a Jazz's second #1 this year, and even then i probably wouldnt have and they definitely wouldn't have. What that tells you is that they (or Minny) are insane, or they both really, really liked who they got at 2 and 3. Good for them. I sure as hell didnt like either of those options that much.

I gotta disagree with the Kanter assessment. I think his combo of size and skills jumps out at... me, anyway. He's one of those players that it's so obvious, you almost can't miss it. I think he's almost a sure bet to be a 20/10 player as long as he stays healthy - in the Jeff Ruland mode - except Kanter's got a better jump shot. He'll be a stud.

I don't think he'll be a stud (though we may be arguing over semantics, I see studs as all star starter or nearly so types), I do think he'll be good, not the same player obviously, but I imagine a performance similar to Juwon Howard, in '94-'97 for us, a 17-9 to 19-9 type guy, i think he'll be good, i think he was and is a lock to be good, and good in a way that I dont think Marcus Morris will ever reach, sub all start, good, but I do not like the fact that he doesnt seem to be seen as a guy with greatness in him, just goodness. That's all fine and good, and I would have taken him over anyone available in this draft if everyone had declared save perhaps one guy, but I would never have done the trade offer that was apparently being demanded for him or Williams. NEVER, EVER. Not in a million years. Insane. Could be as much as 10 deep in studs. So I can't see any point in mortgaging 2 prospects nearly as highly valued as Kantner, plus a likely top 5-10 pick in a draft likely to be 3-5x as good as this one next year.

Gottlieb's big board, did anyone post it:

4. Chris Singleton, F, Florida State: Lockdown defender with 3-point range and, though he is a late bloomer on offense, he is ready-made for the NBA with the versatility needed to defend the 2-3-4 positions. Also showed great toughness and a desire to play by returning from a broken foot, whereas many would have shut it down and not risked the NCAA tournament.

5. Jan Vesely, PF, Czech Republic: Athletic big man who has played at a high level in Europe. Should be able to start right away and will play well in an up-tempo ball-screen type of offense. Not the shooter that Euro bigs normally are, but also a far better athlete than most Euro bigs.

A little bit from Simmons:

8:06 -- High drama for Cousin Sal and I: We need the Wizards to take Vesely to win our "Vesely will be a top-6 pick" bet. And …

8:07 -- Yes! The Dunking Ninja is going to Washington! He starts his career with a memorable highlight: Right after the pick, he just about open-mouth kisses his smoking hot European girlfriend as the crowd cheers lustily. That leads to this exchange:

Wildes: "I hope that's not his sister."
Me: "No, that was his girlfriend, there was practically tongue."
Jacoby: "Yeah, I think she was marking her territory. Like a dog marking a tree!"

(The NBA draft everybody!)

8:08 -- Highlights from the past 2 minutes: Fraschilla gushing during the Vesely highlight reel, "He's a FREAK athlete!" … ESPN smartly replaying the Vesely kiss (that will have 10 million YouTube hits by Friday night) … Jones saying, "He's wearing a big smile right now" (because he got drafted, or because of his girlfriend?) … Jones saying Vesely was the European Blake Griffin, then Vesely joking awkwardly, "I think he's the American Jan Vesely" … the thought of Blake hearing this, then vowing to go out of his way to dunk violently on Vesely next season.

(Put it this way: If Jan Vesely does for the Wizards what he just did for this draft, they're going to be the most exciting team next season. You know, if we have a season.)

9:15 -- The winner of this year's Rashard Lewis Award (for the last guy in the greenroom):7 Chris Singleton, the fledgling clothing designer and forward who's headed to Chocolate City as the 18th pick. Hey Wizards — don't think I haven't noticed that you're slowly transforming yourselves into a young, high-flying, high-energy team with cool caps and jerseys.

[The Consiglieri]

That's a good point, Rico.

There are specific matchups we'd need to avoid, but Vesely can give most PFs the Haywood treatment... even if he's giving ground, you still have to shoot over his extendo-arms.

I'm moderately excited by a Singleton-Vesely forward combo. That's a lot of length and athleticism on the defensive end. (It's also a lot of bricks on the offensive end... Hopla!)

Give it time, and some bumps in the road would actually be helpful, too good too fast will prevent us from ever reaching what we hope this is building too. It's a strange place to be in for me, excited about the future, but hoping it starts with some more baby steps rather than a grand leap.

[Induveca]

Vesely is giving no one the Haywood treatment. The kid weighs 230 if he's lucky at 6'11.

Don't fall for these YouTube highlights, all his highlights are in the open court on a break against weak defenders. I'll say it again, Danilo Gallinari routinely drove the lane for hard slams in the EU, and had highlights disturbingly similar. So did Maciej Lampe. So did Nikoloz Tskitishvili........

Most of these guys found out quickly that their EU games don't translate to the pros, and became attempted jump shooters/3 point bombers. Unfortunately, Vesely can't shoot AT ALL........and is weaker than all of those guys.

He certainly seems talented, but the kid is a MAJOR project.

[Illuminaire]

Vesely is giving no one the Haywood treatment. The kid weighs 230 if he's lucky at 6'11.

Don't fall for these YouTube highlights, all his highlights are in the open court on a break against weak defenders. I'll say it again, Danilo Gallinari routinely drove the lane for hard slams in the EU, and had highlights disturbingly similar. So did Maciej Lampe. So did Nikoloz Tskitishvili........

Most of these guys found out quickly that their EU games don't translate to the pros, and became attempted jump shooters/3 point bombers. Unfortunately, Vesely can't shoot AT ALL........and is weaker than all of those guys.

He certainly seems talented, but the kid is a MAJOR project.

Your argument against his length affecting shots is that he might not be able to dunk as often in the NBA?

I really don't understand the flow of your points. You either jumped to a completely different subject with no transition, or you were never actually responding to my post.

[SumTingWong]

Vesely is giving no one the Haywood treatment. The kid weighs 230 if he's lucky at 6'11.

Don't fall for these YouTube highlights, all his highlights are in the open court on a break against weak defenders..[snippity snip]

Dude is tough as nails. To quote his mamasan when he was a toddler, "Jani may be small but he be fierce."

Case in point the infamous "Brawl sans Duval"-- named in memory of the late Alexier Duval who was carted off on a stretcher after Vesely was finished with him.

That was the game where he got the nickname Rocky for his overhand right that turned out the lights on many a player that night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbq0fSxt ... re=related

Jan lost two teeth reportedly biting off the ear of another player (WARNING: Vesely is bleeding profusely in this vid.)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyNUaJGa ... r_embedded

There were so many fist fights, broken bones and ejections in this Rollerball like death match that the game had to be finished 3 on 3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V34n79cI ... re=related

But when it was all said and done the last man standing was none other than our own beloved hero Jan Vesely himself. He finished with 23 points, 16 boards, 5 steals, 13 blocked shots, 1 KO, 2 TKOs, 8 stitches and some dentalwork.

Czech mate.

[hands11]

We're so damn fickle on this board - boarderline schizophrenic. Look back at the draft threads over the past few months and the majority of folks would have been happy with Chris Singleton @18 and Nolan Smith @34. Outside of Vesley (who's impact is still unknown) I thought we did very well. The philosophy entering the draft was to start with intelligent, competitive, mature players and we did exactly that. I'm still undecided about Vesely as I'm unfamilar with his game, but we dramatically improved the culture of the team with this draft. Blatche and McGee better wake up else they'll miss this bus.

True

My approach was different entirely but I do understand the approach they took.

My idea was trade down and upgrade the shooting ( harper ), get an all around SF ( Morris/Tobias ) and get center help Nikola Vucevic. Do this by trade and and/or buy a pick. I would have also liked to see someone like Brooks here or even a project PF like Jeremy Tyler. That is what I wanted this year.

They went a different direction. They went for pure D, a swing for the fences with Jan and PG/SG help with Shelvin Mack

I think my approach would have made us better next year and hopefully moving forward as we packaged players if we needed to, while theirs provides players with less upside and will likely yield us a better draft position for the following year. But you upgraded your D with Singleton and hopefully Ves.

It is a difference in strategy and because of that, I am not surprised we added none of the players I wanted to see added. I think it was a missed opportunity but I will role with it because it is what we have.