Cecil recalled; Stewart to AA

augustine · Post #1 » by **augustine** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:13 pm

From the Jays Twitter account

Roster Move: Cecil recalled from Vegas, Stewart optioned to New Hampshire
Rotation: Cecil to start July 30, Villanueva moved to July 2

Probably the twitter post should have said that Cecil will start June 30.

Post #2 » by **Schad** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:26 pm

Perhaps, but I'd buy that we're calling Cecil up to mow the infield for the next month.

Kinda sucks for Stewart...he has essentially had two decent starts out of three, and it's back to NH (rather than Las Vegas) for him. Wonder whether he might ask out at some point.

torontoaces04 · Post #3 » by **torontoaces04** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:28 pm

Are you kidding me?! Is this actually happening? Stewart had 2 decent starts out of his 3, and we're bringing up a guy who can't keep the ball in the park?!

Randle McMurphy · Post #4 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:32 pm

torontoaces04 wrote:Are you kidding me?! Is this actually happening? Stewart had 2 decent starts out of his 3, and we're bringing up a guy who can't keep the ball in the park?!

Nobody can keep the ball in the park in Vegas. Cecil should have been back on this team a long time ago, he's a good major league starter.

Unfortunate that it had to come at the expense of Stewart, but I suspect he'll be back if AA succeeds in trading JoJo and Villanueva (as I'm sure he'll try to do).

Also, it's too bad that they didn't take this chance to move Romero to Saturday. Would have been fun to watch him face Doc.

augustine · Post #5 » by **augustine** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:58 pm

Wilner is tweeting that they may move Romero to Saturday:

@Wilnerness590 Mike Wilner
Barry Lee Davis tweets Cecil to start Thurs v. #pirates. So does that mean Romero vs. Halladay on Sat? #bluejays #jays

K1NG · Post #6 » by **K1NG** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:40 pm

augustine wrote:Wilner is tweeting that they may move Romero to Saturday:

@Wilnerness590 Mike Wilner
Barry Lee Davis tweets Cecil to start Thurs v. #pirates. So does that mean Romero vs. Halladay on Sat? #bluejays #jays

TheBunk · Post #7 » by **TheBunk** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:51 pm

I get that you can't take out a guy who is excelling but I just don't buy Villanueva as a starter, I hope he's traded at the deadline.

kwamebargnani · Post #8 » by **kwamebargnani** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:02 pm

TheBunk wrote:I get that you can't take out a guy who is excelling but I just don't buy Villanueva as a starter, I hope he's traded at the deadline.

For who? Whatever we're gonna get from Villanueva isn't worth giving up on the experiment. Jo-Jo Reyes is the one who should be gone, maybe in a package deal.

There There · Post #9 » by **There There** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:18 pm

Schadenfreude wrote:Perhaps, but I'd buy that we're calling Cecil up to mow the infield for the next month.

Kinda sucks for Stewart...he has essentially had two decent starts out of three, and it's back to NH (rather than Las Vegas) for him. Wonder whether he might ask out at some point.

I am trying to temper my emotions right now, because in the grand scheme of things, AA is way ahead when comparing good moves to bad moves.

But I really am at a complete **** loss for words to try and understand this entirely needless jerking around of prospects.

Thames, up, down, up.
Stewart, up, now down again.

Neither did anything to earn their demotions. Two out of three games, Stewart has pitched quite well. Last night he was generally around the zone and except for a few at-bats, nobody was hitting him very hard.

What **** explanation can AA have for sending him back ? Carlos V is best suited for the bullpen. This is no **** state secret.

Is he trying to see if he can artificially raise Drabek's confidence level by showing how much he can fully break Stewart's ?

There is no reasoning for this. None. No one is trading for Villanueva the starter for **** sakes. Put him back in the pen where he belongs.

edit... I was probably too harsh on Villanueva as he's certainly exceeded my expectations of what he can do as a starter.. But i'm not buying it long term. If he couldn't get a starting role in the NL Central on a team that lacked any quality starting pitching, I don't buy it on this team, long term, in this division.

It's frustrating because with Villanueva and Jo-Jo, Rivera/Davis/Patterson/Nix/E5, it seems like we're trying any alternative route to fielding a team rather than giving our top level prospects a chance, and that is what this **** season was supposed to be about

Randle McMurphy · Post #10 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:55 pm

Apparently the Jays care about how many innings Carlos Villanueva is throwing and are prepared to limit them going forward. That doesn't sound like a team prepared to trade him. Is he really that much a part of the future?

Avenger · Post #11 » by **Avenger** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:40 pm

Schadenfreude wrote:Perhaps, but I'd buy that we're calling Cecil up to mow the infield for the next month.

Kinda sucks for Stewart...he has essentially had two decent starts out of three, and it's back to NH (rather than Las Vegas) for him. Wonder whether he might ask out at some point.

what exactly has he done to be treated like a superstar prospect? He was mediocre in the minors who neither has the stuff and strikouts or pinpoint control. His only claim to fame is that he was a first round pick and we got him in what's turning out to be a horrendous trade.

And anyone trashing CV might not have looked at his numbers recently. Its really irrelevant whether some of you are skeptical of him continuing to pitch well as a starter, you need throw him out there until he fails. He's putting up almost the exact same numbers as CJ Wilson did when he got moved to the rotation. There's no way he should be traded or moved to the bullpen to make a room for a guy who might never be what CV is right now.

Hoopstarr · Post #12 » by **Hoopstarr** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:23 pm

^Stewart's own GM said his stuff is right up there with Drabek and he has shown he can pitch in the majors in his brief time up. Meanwhile, Jo-Jo Binks is still in the rotation.

I agree about CV, though. I always liked him.

Randle McMurphy · Post #13 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:42 pm

Avenger wrote:And anyone trashing CV might not have looked at his numbers recently. Its really irrelevant whether some of you are skeptical of him continuing to pitch well as a starter, you need throw him out there until he fails. He's putting up almost the exact same numbers as CJ Wilson did when he got moved to the rotation. There's no way he should be traded or moved to the bullpen to make a room for a guy who might never be what CV is right now.

I'm sure he'll have good luck in maintaining that .241 BABIP all year.

Avenger · Post #14 » by **Avenger** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:47 pm

uhm what? Even if his BABIP normalizes his numbers still very solid, his FIP(which is ERA normalised for an average BABIP) is 3.50 and his xFIP is at 3.94 is also reasonable as a 4th/5th starter. Trading him or moving a potentially valuable asset to the bullpen to make room for a mediocre at best prospect is a laughable idea.

Avenger · Post #15 » by **Avenger** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:59 pm

Hoopstarr wrote:^Stewart's own GM said his stuff is right up there with Drabek and he has shown he can pitch in the majors in his brief time up.

Is that how we're evaluating players now, based on what their GM's say? The numbers don't lie, even as a reliever, he's never put up dominant strikeout numbers or low walk totals for an extended period of time while pitching in leagues where he was older than the average pitching prospect. I personally wasn't that impressed with his brief MLB stint, his command of the sinker is mediocre and its pretty ineffective against lefties and i wasn't that impressed with his slider or changeup.

Michael Bradley · Post #16 » by **Michael Bradley** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:06 pm

Nothing Stewart has done so far has changed my mind about him being a reliever long-term. I agree with starting him for as long as possible before making the move to relief, but I don't see him as a long-term starter, at least not one I'd trust in the top 3 of a good rotation.

Hoopstarr · Post #17 » by **Hoopstarr** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:26 pm

Avenger wrote:
Hoopstarr wrote:^Stewart's own GM said his stuff is right up there with Drabek and he has shown he can pitch in the majors in his brief time up.

Is that how we're evaluating players now, based on what their GM's say? The numbers don't lie, even as a reliever, he's never put up dominant strikeout numbers or low walk totals for an extended period of time while pitching in leagues where he was older than the average pitching prospect. I personally wasn't that impressed with his brief MLB stint, his command of the sinker is mediocre and its pretty ineffective against lefties and i wasn't that impressed with his slider or changeup.

If numbers don't matter with Reyes, then why should they matter with Stewart, who at least has upside? I would think the better way to evaluate players is to actually see what they can do. We're assuming AA's goal coming into this year was to see what he's working with; to separate the core from the roster filler and the expendable prospects. Continuing with scrubs in a rebuilding year doesn't accomplish any of that.

BigLeagueChew · Post #18 » by **BigLeagueChew** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:13 am

I like this move.

We play the Phillies, Red Sox, Indians, Yankees,Mariners, Rangers, O's then Rangers again all over the next month. I'd rather have Cecil if he has regained his pitching motion back to last year.

Towards the end of the season, Villanueva will most likely get reduced innings or be shutdown similiar to Morrow last year, therefore Stewart and/or Drabek can get a few stars in September.

TorontoRaptures · Post #19 » by **TorontoRaptures** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:01 pm

Sure Stewart had quality starts in 2 of his 3 appearances, but sending him back down was still the right move. His pitches had strong movement, but at his velocity, he needs to develop an out pitch...and fast. Watching him in big situations against guys like Cabrera and Martinez, it was quite apparent he had nothing to get them out with and had to rely on them to put the ball in play. Those are obviously tough hitters from anyone but he still needs a go to pitch down in the zone to get batters to chase.

Randle McMurphy · Post #20 » by **Randle McMurphy** » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:40 pm

Avenger wrote:uhm what? Even if his BABIP normalizes his numbers still very solid, his FIP(which is ERA normalised for an average BABIP) is 3.50 and his xFIP is at 3.94 is also reasonable as a 4th/5th starter. Trading him or moving a potentially valuable asset to the bullpen to make room for a mediocre at best prospect is a laughable idea.

Avenger wrote:And anyone trashing CV might not have looked at his numbers recently. Its really irrelevant whether some of you are skeptical of him continuing to pitch well as a starter, you need throw him out there until he fails. He's putting up almost the exact same numbers as CJ Wilson did when he got moved to the rotation. There's no way he should be traded or moved to the bullpen to make a room for a guy who might never be what CV is right now.

Avenger wrote:The only things a pitcher has complete control over are his K, BB and GB% rates, those are the only things you can use to properly evaluate pitchers.

Carlos Villanueva as a starter in 2011: 41.1 IP, 5.01 K/9, 1.52 BB/9, 38.2 GB%, 4.02 xFIP
Jesse Litsch as a starter in 2011: 46.1 IP, 6.99 K/9, 3.50 BB/9, 45.5 GB%, 3.85 xFIP

:-?