Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread

[ronleroy]

already feeling the effects... wnba... unwatchable...

[douggood]

Sorry guys I am not really sure how does the contract and draft pick work...so if we have lockout does that take one year off a player's contract? So, if we have a full-year lockout, is Jose expiring or still has two years left? If we have a lockout, how do we determine draft position?

when the NHL lost a season, the lost season counted as a contract year. and the draft order was decided depending on the avg finish of the team for the pervious 3 years.

So its safe to say that the same thing will apply to NBA, a lost season mean a player loses a contract year, and we get 2 free agent classes in the same off season, and there will be some creative way or coming up with the draft order.

But this a still a ways away, lets not talk about a lost season till christmas, the last nba lockout ended on jan 20 and they had a 50 game season still

[OAKLEY_2]

If they lose a year.

1. The value of each franchise should go down
2. TV money should be less rather than more as networks just took a major hit losing ad revenue
3. Indifferent fans in questionable markets will be scarcer than ever
4. Some good Euro players may never come back
5. Players will be hungrier for perks looking at top markets more than ever
6. Even with a hard cap the NHL is contemplating unheard of 12 million dollar/yr. deals and 10 year contracts when the CBA was created to avoid those scenarios. If the Canadian dollar was still at 62 cents there would be a crisis of unseen proportions in terms of market parity
7. Two MLB teams have declared bankruptcy in the last year...
8. There are limits to the growth of these enterprises. Operating costs are beyond silly and the product pricing is not sustainable to grow unless incomes do the same. At some point people will take their pro sports ticket budget elsewhere and all they'll have is a pay per view reality show in smaller arenas. Returning to when the NBA was a scrappy outfit pre Larry Bird is not beyond the realm of possibility. Maybe they are already there if you look at the crowds Atlanta and Charlotte get.

[I hate pod 6]

Sorry guys I am not really sure how does the contract and draft pick work...so if we have lockout does that take one year off a player's contract? So, if we have a full-year lockout, is Jose expiring or still has two years left? If we have a lockout, how do we determine draft position?

when the NHL lost a season, the lost season counted as a contract year. and the draft order was decided depending on the avg finish of the team for the pervious 3 years.
So its safe to say that the same thing will apply to NBA, a lost season mean a player loses a contract year, and we get 2 free agent classes in the same off season, and there will be some creative way or coming up with the draft order.

But this a still a ways away, lets not talk about a lost season till christmas, the last nba lockout ended on jan 20 and they had a 50 game season still

The NHL did use the previous three years for the draft but everybody had a shot at the #1 spot. Each team received 1-3 balls depending on how many playoff apperances they had. So a team like Detriot who is always on top had a 1 in 48 chance to get the top pick compared to the bottom feeders who had a 3 in 48 chance (which was only four teams).

Could you imagine if the NBA did this and someone like the Lakers or the Heat got the #1 pick. 6% and 2% is not a huge difference. So hopefully if there is a full year lockout they don't do what the NHL did or if the do, they make the crappy teams like the Raps have better odds difference.

[inonba]

Does anyone have any idea on the pick protection Miami sent via sign and trade for Lebron and Bosh?

[bstein14]

According to the wiretap, if the players don't accept a $62 million "flex cap" then the owners will pull that offer off the table once there is a lockout and will "push hard" for a $45 million hard cap with 33% reductions in current player salaries.

If that is true we're going to be in for a long, ugly, lockout that will cost the NBA not only a ton of money, but also some great moments and a ton of fans going to spend their money elsewhere even when the NBA eventually does come back.

[RapTelligence]

According to the wiretap, if the players don't accept a $62 million "flex cap" then the owners will pull that offer off the table once there is a lockout and will "push hard" for a $45 million hard cap with 33% reductions in current player salaries.

If that is true we're going to be in for a long, ugly, lockout that will cost the NBA not only a ton of money, but also some great moments and a ton of fans going to spend their money elsewhere even when the NBA eventually does come back.

Its will be interesting to see how united the players will be after this stand from the owners.

[Duffman100]

According to the wiretap, if the players don't accept a $62 million "flex cap" then the owners will pull that offer off the table once there is a lockout and will "push hard" for a $45 million hard cap with 33% reductions in current player salaries.

If that is true we're going to be in for a long, ugly, lockout that will cost the NBA not only a ton of money, but also some great moments and a ton of fans going to spend their money elsewhere even when the NBA eventually does come back.

Its will be interesting to see how united the players will be after this stand from the owners.

I'm really getting frustrated with the players. They make more money than any other sports, 22 teams lost money, something has to be done. Be realistic, make concessions.

Oh, and average big man will make 5 million instead of 8...how are you going to buy bread?

Give me a break.

[duppyy]

Is there a list of which team made profit this season? Tried googling it no luck.

[Indeed]

Is there a list of which team made profit this season? Tried googling it no luck.

http://search.forbes.com/search/find?ta ... valuations

Edit: I think this is the latest:
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/32/bas ... _rank.html


And for the Raptors, BC helped to make double of previous operating income every year (Babcock era was horrible, -1):

[bstein14]

According to that list 15 teams made a profit and 15 teams lost money.

The only teams to make a considerable(more than $15 mil) profit were.

Knicks $64 million
Bulls $51 million
Rockets $36 million
Lakers $33 million
Pistons $32 million
Raptors $25 million
Thunder $22 million
Suns $20 million

Rockets have the Yao Ming factor... Knicks, Bulls, Lakers, and Raptors have the 4 largest TV markets in North America. Pistons have a very good TV deal as well because it was signed in 07 when ratings were through the roof but they will likely fall hard off this list once this deal expires.

Honestly... the small market Thunder and the Suns are both surprising to me on this list.

[Fairview4Life]

According to the wiretap, if the players don't accept a $62 million "flex cap" then the owners will pull that offer off the table once there is a lockout and will "push hard" for a $45 million hard cap with 33% reductions in current player salaries.

If that is true we're going to be in for a long, ugly, lockout that will cost the NBA not only a ton of money, but also some great moments and a ton of fans going to spend their money elsewhere even when the NBA eventually does come back.

Its will be interesting to see how united the players will be after this stand from the owners.

I'm really getting frustrated with the players. They make more money than any other sports, 22 teams lost money, something has to be done. Be realistic, make concessions.

Oh, and average big man will make 5 million instead of 8...how are you going to buy bread?

Give me a break.

The NBA as a whole made a record amount of money this season. Attendance was over 90% or something. The problem, that I can see, is with a lack of revenue sharing. Not player salaries.

[Indeed]

According to that list 15 teams made a profit and 15 teams lost money.

The only teams to make a considerable(more than $15 mil) profit were.

Knicks $64 million
Bulls $51 million
Rockets $36 million
Lakers $33 million
Pistons $32 million
Raptors $25 million
Thunder $22 million
Suns $20 million

Rockets have the Yao Ming factor... Knicks, Bulls, Lakers, and Raptors have the 4 largest TV markets in North America. Pistons have a very good TV deal as well because it was signed in 07 when ratings were through the roof but they will likely fall hard off this list once this deal expires.

Honestly... the small market Thunder and the Suns are both surprising to me on this list.

Actually, they are not profit.

Operating Income - Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization.

Which this can be a pros/crons for business. For those who are previously losing money, they may claim for them when they are making a profit.

However, I am guessing the profit margin might be smaller than that (I am not a financial person, so this is just a guess). To me, the investment might not be worthy as if this is a 2% - 5% profit with a parallel risk of losing 2% - 5%.

[inonba]

According to that list 15 teams made a profit and 15 teams lost money.

The only teams to make a considerable(more than $15 mil) profit were.

Knicks $64 million
Bulls $51 million
Rockets $36 million
Lakers $33 million
Pistons $32 million
Raptors $25 million
Thunder $22 million
Suns $20 million

Rockets have the Yao Ming factor... Knicks, Bulls, Lakers, and Raptors have the 4 largest TV markets in North America. Pistons have a very good TV deal as well because it was signed in 07 when ratings were through the roof but they will likely fall hard off this list once this deal expires.

Honestly... the small market Thunder and the Suns are both surprising to me on this list.

OKC doesn't surprise me, as they had they were expansion team with low salary committment. It was easy to sell to a new fan base.

[inonba]

The NBA as a whole made a record amount of money this season. Attendance was over 90% or something. The problem, that I can see, is with a lack of revenue sharing. Not player salaries.

Look at how much money Rashard Lewis, Michael Redd, Andrei Kirilenko, Gilbert Arenas, Vince Cater, Kenyon Martin, Elton Bran, Predrag Stojakovic, Jason Richardson, Rudy Gay, Brandon Roy, Brendan Haywood, James Posey, Samual Dalembert, Ben Gordon, Al Jefferson, Nick Collison, Hedo Turkoglu is making and then tell me again that player's salaries aren't the problem. Then tell me if the money making teams (us included) send the money to struggling teams so that players like these can sustain their salaries is the ultimate solution.

Players have to realize, any system that would allow 2nd, 3rd or even 4rd tier players being paid 1st tier player money can't possibly be sustainable. The sooner they realize that, the sooner the lockout will be over.

[Laowai]

The Suns that is why they will keep Steve Nash.

[bstein14]

Worst thing is, you have a player like Ben Gordon put up an efficient 25+ PPG in a contract year just to sign a big 5 year deal and then never see that effort from him again.

What a said thing when some of these players get contracts that make them and their families set for life and then they stop putting in the work that got them to that point.

Under the new owners proposal it will be 3/4/5 year contract lengths so if you're signing with a new team its a max of 3 years... if you're resigning with your own team its a max of 4 years... and if you're the franchise player you can sign a 5 year deal (one per team).

[Mattd97]

does anyone else find it funny that in these situations, the commish always claims how 75% of the teams lose money and how the league lost eleventy-billion dollars last year -- but theres never any backlash towards the commish? if i ran a company and it was losing 200 million a year, people would say 'hey.. you kindve must suck at your job then, no?'

[roundhead0]

According to that list 15 teams made a profit and 15 teams lost money.

The only teams to make a considerable(more than $15 mil) profit were.

Knicks $64 million
Bulls $51 million
Rockets $36 million
Lakers $33 million
Pistons $32 million
Raptors $25 million
Thunder $22 million
Suns $20 million

Rockets have the Yao Ming factor... Knicks, Bulls, Lakers, and Raptors have the 4 largest TV markets in North America. Pistons have a very good TV deal as well because it was signed in 07 when ratings were through the roof but they will likely fall hard off this list once this deal expires.

Honestly... the small market Thunder and the Suns are both surprising to me on this list.

Suns are not exactly "small market". Their metropiliotan area is 4.5 million which is decent, and there are a lot of relatively affluent people living there who can afford to go to the games and buy merchandise.

People just think they are small market because their owner is cheap.

[brownbobcat]

Players have to realize, any system that would allow 2nd, 3rd or even 4rd tier players being paid 1st tier player money can't possibly be sustainable. The sooner they realize that, the sooner the lockout will be over.

Why can't the owners and GMs realize you don't pay ridiculous salaries to 4th tier players?

Part of the reason is that they're stupid. The other part likely has to do with the struggles of smaller market teams. It's harder to attract free agents without overpaying, there's no question. They don't have the luxury box revenues, corporate support or TV contracts - how is that even debatable?

I'm in favour of a hard cap with some kind of limited exception for a "franchise player" tag that lets you go over by $5 mil. If you're a bad GM, I think you should be affected by the consequences of your stupidity.
- No unguaranteed contracts or cap amnesty.
- No individual player salary cap. Pay $30 mil for Hedo if you want, as long as it fits under the team cap.
- Limited revenue sharing. If you can't make the salary floor, your share gets cut.
- 5 year contract limits, restricted free agency after 3 years (still can't exceed cap), unrestricted after 4.