Just messin'round...

[parson]

For exploratory purposes, I think this might be revealing. The link is http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=42emman Don''t worry about my feelings. I'm just trying to discover possibilities.

It's Joe to GS and Hinrich to SAC.
GS sends Biedrins to us and Monta Ellis to SAC.
SAC eats Ellis's salary and sends Jeremy Lin to us.

Both teams send us a first.

Joe is as good a scorer as Ellis but is superior defensively. Joe and Curry would fit superbly together. Their chemistry would be dynamite.

Ellis is perfect with Tyreke Evans. Both are 1-and-a-half types but Evans needs to defend SGs while Ellis can defend PGs.

SAC might try to cut us out but GS gets a much better backcourt and talent infusion than they would by just dumping Ellis's contract. They get the best player in the deal. Hinrich would backup both PG and SG and is pretty talented, himself. Plus, after one year, his contract expires. They get one year to make the chemistry work and then relief from Hinrich's deal.

The only question is whether or not Biedrins would help overcome the loss of Joe. If Horford and Smoove can make up Joe's scoring #s and if Marvelous can defend the 2 and score a bit and if Biedrins can upgrade our interior defense and if ....

Lotta ifs.

[parson]

Oh yeah, and the next year, we'd be close to having enough cap space to sign Dwight Howard. Think that lineup - with Biedrins and Zaza backing him up - would be attractive to DH ?

[Ruhiel]

"With this trade you have decreased this team's projected wins by 6. "

Joe won a 3 year low 4 Wins for our team. Biedrins has 4 wins for GSW in the past two years combined.
Biedrins is a risk I'd rather not take and does not significantly improve the team's depth.

Lin is below average. Joe I have hope to recover to above average form. We need a depth model not a top heavy model like Golden State or what we have with Al (10 wins), Josh (6 wins), Joe (6 wins).

If Josh would regain some of his Energy plays and athleticism back that would really help everybody out.

[ZA ZA ZA]

I like it because of the 2 picks coming to us, especially if they're unprotected. At least one of those picks will be a lotto pick in a good draft class next year.

We'll fall back for a year in the standings but it certainly makes the future beyond that much brighter.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Chances of moving Joe period unless someone comes calling?!?!? 0.1223311443%

If we are moving Joe, then might as well move Josh as well..

[Superiorblogman]

Makes no sense to me. I would rather send Josh, Marvin, and Zaza to Golden State for Monta, Biedrins, and Dorrell Wright

[Ruhiel]

I like it because of the 2 picks coming to us, especially if they're unprotected. At least one of those picks will be a lotto pick in a good draft class next year.

We'll fall back for a year in the standings but it certainly makes the future beyond that much brighter.

How so? We wait out Joe and before you know it Al will be 30. We don't have a large window if any at all with Al peaking and Josh regressing etc etc

Draft class next year is redundant to this roster. We draft a wing and we're stuck with Joe's $ and cant develop him.

Or we sit Joe trade Smith for expirings and set this franchise's image back 10 years. You're pick (pun intended

[theatlfan]

Where is Hinrich going? The link has him going to GSW, but the post has him to SAC. GSW would make more sense I guess...

I don't see why we'd just dump Ellis on SAC. I'd just cut out SAC and keep Ellis, then look to trade Teague (with Marvin?) later. GSW can't trade their pick next year (I think LAC has it), and SAC won't trade theirs this early for a salary dump. Sure, we wouldn't have much roster flexibility, but an Ellis / Horford tandem is a nice inside/out combo that we could build around if Smoove departs in FA.

Not sure about the premise either. I appreciate our need for a C, but honestly, I'd prefer to simply get an upgrade on Twin. Twin has a role here that, quite simply, Biedrins can not fill. I'd think that a 25 min per night defensive-oriented C would fit our current roster much better than Biedrins. You can't leave Biedrins on Howard man-to-man - I mean you at least have to make D12 work for his points.

[parson]

^^^^^^We're certainly sending out more talent than we're receiving. But it might be that having a true Center will help Horford and Smith play better. And if Marvelous can perform at SG, this can work.

^^^^^We'd ask for no protection on the picks. What each team gets (Warriors get Joe and dump Biedrins for value --- SAC gets Ellis for free) would help when we ask for picks.

^^^^If we can move Joe and get a Center, why trade Smith?

^^^You want to trade Smith rather than Joe? I disagree but I can respect that.

^^IF Biedrins helps our team make sense, IF Horford plays PF better, IF Smith becomes a low-post terror at SF, IF Marvelous can play SG, IF Teague blooms ..... then the picks are just bench help, anyway. Of course, they'd be high-quality bench help.

^Sorry for the Hinrich mistake. Yes, he goes to GS. By including SAC, we save almost $16 million and get a pick. I like Ellis but not more than a shot at Dwight Howard and a high pick.

[jagstang76]

Where in the world did you guys get the idea that Marvin can play the 2? The dude is 6-9 230. Yeah he's got a good outside game and is athletic, but there's no way he can cover most SGs in this league. Most will just run right by him. He's closer to being a 3-4 tweener with his size. Maybe Drew played him once or twice there to try and force a matchup he wanted, but I don't see him being able to handle it for any significant time.

[theatlfan]

^^^^^^We're certainly sending out more talent than we're receiving. But it might be that having a true Center will help Horford and Smith play better. And if Marvelous can perform at SG, this can work.

I agree that getting a true C would help us in a variety of ways, but I dunno if Biedrins fills that bill - just not enough girth to push the D12's off the low block. Getting a 25 min/night guy would do the same thing except we're not hitched to a guy that GSW can't dump.

^^^^^We'd ask for no protection on the picks. What each team gets (Warriors get Joe and dump Biedrins for value --- SAC gets Ellis for free) would help when we ask for picks.

GSW doesn't have a pick to give (I think '16 is the earliest they could do), and SAC wouldn't give an unprotected pick for a guy to backup their Jimmer/Tyreke backcourt. Let's be real: no team would give up an unprotected pick for pure cap space... well, except the Clippers, but let's not pretend that they're a well-run organization by any stretch.

^^^^If we can move Joe and get a Center, why trade Smith?

^^^You want to trade Smith rather than Joe? I disagree but I can respect that.

??? I don't want to trade anyone on the team unless it makes us better - that includes Smith, JJ, and Marvin. No idea where this is coming from...

^^IF Biedrins helps our team make sense, IF Horford plays PF better, IF Smith becomes a low-post terror at SF, IF Marvelous can play SG, IF Teague blooms ..... then the picks are just bench help, anyway. Of course, they'd be high-quality bench help.

Nice dream. Personally, I'd think that Horford/Smoove is still our front court, Biedrins ends up battling Zaza for the #3 big, we're still looking for that true C, and we're shifting among the likes of Pape Sy, Damien Wilkins, UDFA's, and NBDL'ers to hand starting wing minutes to... oh, and we giving $27 mil over 3 years to a Russian who's blowing it on coke while clubbing around the ATL. I've always been a cynic though.

^Sorry for the Hinrich mistake. Yes, he goes to GS. By including SAC, we save almost $16 million and get a pick. I like Ellis but not more than a shot at Dwight Howard and a high pick.

Don't see it. I would *LOVE* to get D12, but honestly, even with this deal we still wouldn't have the cap space to do it - unless we shipped Horford, Smoove, or maybe Marvin to CLE or TOR for a TPE or someone else for cap space. We'd still have $51M committed for the '12 season which wouldn't be enough pure cap space to land him under the current CBA - so forth the next one. Honestly, if we want D12, then really our best course of action is to package Horford, JJ, and Marvin together and ask for pure expirings and prospects/picks back, hope to see some very good things from Teague and the other prospects received, then hope for some luck in the lottery. Even then, it's doubtful...

[parson]

^^^^^We'd ask for no protection on the picks. What each team gets (Warriors get Joe and dump Biedrins for value --- SAC gets Ellis for free) would help when we ask for picks.

GSW doesn't have a pick to give (I think '16 is the earliest they could do), and SAC wouldn't give an unprotected pick for a guy to backup their Jimmer/Tyreke backcourt. Let's be real: no team would give up an unprotected pick for pure cap space... well, except the Clippers, but let's not pretend that they're a well-run organization by any stretch.

Sorry, I think I wrote that poorly and confused you. Hinrich goes to GS and Monta Ellis goes to SAC.

My bad.

[parson]

Just changed it. Kept Hinrich and offered Zaza. The link is http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=66lhnwo

Now, we only save $11 million but, when Hinrich's deal lapses, we'll have $20 million in savings. That'll put us closer to being able to afford DH: we'll have about $50 million in salary with a cap of maybe $66 million being proposed.

Then I asked the GS board what they thought. After the normal posts of insults and indignation, I hope to be able to gauge the worth of my idea. They need Zaza more than a (really good) backup PG/SG, so I thought this might be more attractive to them.

[myrak433]

Where is Hinrich going? The link has him going to GSW, but the post has him to SAC. GSW would make more sense I guess...

I don't see why we'd just dump Ellis on SAC. I'd just cut out SAC and keep Ellis, then look to trade Teague (with Marvin?) later. GSW can't trade their pick next year (I think LAC has it), and SAC won't trade theirs this early for a salary dump. Sure, we wouldn't have much roster flexibility, but an Ellis / Horford tandem is a nice inside/out combo that we could build around if Smoove departs in FA.

not sure how Ellis is a nice inside outside combo. unless you mean that Ellis would be the inside scoring and Horford would be the outside scoring.... I would much rather have JJ and Ellis on the same team. if we are not getting a clear upgrade at the center position than there is really no need to trade any of Horford, Smoove, JJ, or Kirk.

Not sure about the premise either. I appreciate our need for a C, but honestly, I'd prefer to simply get an upgrade on Twin. Twin has a role here that, quite simply, Biedrins can not fill. I'd think that a 25 min per night defensive-oriented C would fit our current roster much better than Biedrins. You can't leave Biedrins on Howard man-to-man - I mean you at least have to make D12 work for his points.

[myrak433]

Where in the world did you guys get the idea that Marvin can play the 2? The dude is 6-9 230. Yeah he's got a good outside game and is athletic, but there's no way he can cover most SGs in this league. Most will just run right by him. He's closer to being a 3-4 tweener with his size. Maybe Drew played him once or twice there to try and force a matchup he wanted, but I don't see him being able to handle it for any significant time.

I wonder the same thing. I don't know where this Idea came from. but it will not go away. it is just funny to me that some people can watch marvin williams and say he should play SG. LOL SMDH

[parson]

Where in the world did you guys get the idea that Marvin can play the 2? The dude is 6-9 230. Yeah he's got a good outside game and is athletic, but there's no way he can cover most SGs in this league. Most will just run right by him. He's closer to being a 3-4 tweener with his size. Maybe Drew played him once or twice there to try and force a matchup he wanted, but I don't see him being able to handle it for any significant time.

Marvelous posted a 10.0 PER offensively, which is below-average (mainly due to greatly increased TOs there). However, his opponent only posted the same 10.0 PER. He is a very good defender at SG.

He started 5 games at SG. In those games, he averaged 16.2 pt/game with the same rebounding ave (4.8) and shot-blocking ave. (.4) and with worse turnover averages (from 1.0 to 1.8 - almost double) but with increased production (51% shooting from the field, 40% from 3 and he almost doubled his number of FTs per game). And this is just from the 5 games he started. Drew played him some minutes at SG without starting him, as well.

He can play SG. IF we could get a Center, it'd be worth our time to trade Joe.

[parson]

The point is not that Marvelous is some great prospect at SG. The point is he can play the position and thus, we can afford to trade Joe without getting a SG back. We can focus on getting a Center.

[theatlfan]

SAC wouldn't give an unprotected pick for a guy to backup their Jimmer/Tyreke backcourt.

Sorry, I think I wrote that poorly and confused you. Hinrich goes to GS and Monta Ellis goes to SAC.

My bad.

I had it - you write pretty well outside of an occasional typo that we're all subject to. The fact remains here that SAC has invested 2 top 10 picks in the back court over the last 3 years and I don't see them investing another next year before either proves they can't hack it. They might be interested in Ellis, but I doubt that they'd be that interested.

Just changed it. Kept Hinrich and offered Zaza. The link is http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=66lhnwo

Better... still don't see SAC doing it, but this one does make more sense for us. At least we get rid of some salary after next season so we can enter the FA market head long (all appropriate CBA caveats apply).

not sure how Ellis is a nice inside outside combo. unless you mean that Ellis would be the inside scoring and Horford would be the outside scoring.... I would much rather have JJ and Ellis on the same team. if we are not getting a clear upgrade at the center position than there is really no need to trade any of Horford, Smoove, JJ, or Kirk.

No Ellis would be the outside guy. He can penetrate and he's got a very good midrange game. If we can collect some defense and 3 PT shooters for wings (not too expensive on the open market), then we could cobble together a fairly decent team around those 2.

I wouldn't be against a JJ/Ellis backcourt, but would I do it and miss a run @ D12 without any guarantee of landing him? Hard ? for me...

[parson]

I had it - you write pretty well outside of an occasional typo that we're all subject to. The fact remains here that SAC has invested 2 top 10 picks in the back court over the last 3 years and I don't see them investing another next year before either proves they can't hack it. They might be interested in Ellis, but I doubt that they'd be that interested.

You like Jimmer that much? I admit I haven't watched that much of him - only parts of probably 3 games - but I wasn't that impressed. I just figured he was another Great White Hope.

[theatlfan]

You like Jimmer that much? I admit I haven't watched that much of him - only parts of probably 3 games - but I wasn't that impressed. I just figured he was another Great White Hope.

Me? No, but I didn't spend the #10 pick on him either. As for me, I'd agree with the Great White Hope assessment - the Steve Nash comps are way overblown (sure, Jimmer could develop into more than he is now, but that is no small change). The Kings, OTOH, just traded away the only PG on the roster for an equally mediocre wing on a bigger contract. Due to that, I'm guessing they think differently - at least their FO does...

I'd imagine we could get an expiring for Ellis from someone so we could still be players in FA. I just wouldn't be thinking that he'd pull an unprotected pick from a likely lotto team.