Lockout

[floppymoose]

hear hear!

btw, what is up with the spelling in your posts recently? It's even worse than mine, what what! Not a complaint, just curiosity... it reads like you are using an iphone but explicitly turned off the spell correction.

[Sleepy51]

hear hear!

btw, what is up with the spelling in your posts recently? It's even worse than mine, what what! Not a complaint, just curiosity... it reads like you are using an iphone but explicitly turned off the spell correction.

Yeah, iphone and gigantic fingers. When I use the spellcheck it seem tonbe evem worse

[Sleepy51]

hear hear!

btw, what is up with the spelling in your posts recently? It's even worse than mine, what what! Not a complaint, just curiosity... it reads like you are using an iphone but explicitly turned off the spell correction.

Yeah, iphone and gigantic fingers. When I use the spellcheck it seem tonbe evem worse

I am also efing loaded right now. It's been happy hour in FL for hours alreaddyhhuhdhh?7/72

[Sleepy51]

Oh great. We're going to pay players by how much they 'produce'. That'll end well.

^on this.

Players are already compensated on performance. That risk/reward comes in the form of earnings duration. While a current contact may be guaranteed (entirely at ownership's approval and discretion with the exception of rookie contracts) the ability to obtain a next contract is not guaranteed in any way. The average professional athletic career is less than 4 years. Average salary amongst the 4 major sports is around 2mm

That's on average $8 mm of career earnings for people who are 99th percentile at what they do and have been preparing for and investing in this career choice since middle school.

For comparison's sake, the average (overtime exempt) salaried employee in the US earns about $50k per year (this is a pre 2008 figure). Thy have an average work life of 40 years. That s $2mm in AVERAGE career earnings for a totally unspecial, untalented, unexceptuonal, unremarkable, average 50th percentile, commoditized, cubicle drone. Who has been working towards and preparing for that career choice about since they saw the want ad.

Ps
Someone will inevitably bring up schoolteachers, and yeah, schoolteachers are highly undervalued in our society. But, they aren't just undervalued vs athletes. They are undervalued vs actors, dancers, CEO's, middle managers, used car salesmen, loan officers and jizz moppers. Athletes pay is not responsible for the underfunding of education. All of our screwed up values (at least those who don't make voluntary financial donations to public education, which athletes by and large do) are responsible. So piss off with that red herring. We are talking abou millionaires who do something that we value as entetainment vs millionaires who put up capital for something we value as entertainment. Let's leave the patronizing BS clams of social justice out of it.

[turk3d]

Your posts with spelling errors make more sense than a lot of posters around here Sleepy. Nice stuff (even if you are half-crocked).

Question for you floppy. In the 60/40 split (or whatever it is) if 60% of the revenue is used to pay players salaries then I presume the remaining 40% goes to the owners. Is 40% that net or gross? Thanks.

[oaktownwarriors87]

In Utah every ski resort but 1 loses money every single year... you don't even have to be that crafty with accounting to make it look like you're losing money when you are making millions. Getting people who know accounting and business to actually beleive that your losing money is a different story... which is why the NBA doesn't want to disclose a lot of it's financial information.


Basketball is probably the fastest growing sport in the world and the NBA is setting personal records when it comes to sales and ratings. The players have the owners balls in a jar.



Mmmmm....

[marthafokker]

I hope the lockout last the full season.

Beanbag ( -1 year of seeing him).
Bell + Amundson expires.

DHoward and TimmyD free agents.

Kobe and Gasol, and most of the Western conference players getting ready for AARP membership.

What not to love? Besides not watching bad GSW basketball.

[floppymoose]

Question for you floppy. In the 60/40 split (or whatever it is) if 60% of the revenue is used to pay players salaries then I presume the remaining 40% goes to the owners. Is 40% that net or gross? Thanks.

It's 57/43. Sort of. And it's gross. Players get 57% off the top. Then the owners get 43% and pay all the bills (except for the players salaries - that's what the 57% is).

The "sort of" is that there are a few income sources for the team that are not counted, like any international revenues. Owners get to keep 100% of anything not counted.

It has to be gross instead of net or else the players and owners would have to share books, and then they would being suing each other all the time. The owners will never share books anyway, because then they can't lie about how much money they are losing to the players while simultaneously lying to prospective buyers about how much money they expect to make. Also, going gross instead of net insulates the players from poor ownership decisions. The players shouldn't lose salary next year because the owners all decided to install virtual reality entertainment stations on every seat in the arena this year. This way the owners are the ones responsible for making the business decisions, and the players are the ones responsible for playing ball, which is where each of their talents are, theoretically.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q13

[turk3d]

Interesting. So are these "shared revenues" not counting ones that are strictly owners or strictly players (players do not share any of their endorsement money with the owners, correct?) specifically related to ticket sales (am trying to make some sense out of all this)?

[floppymoose]

All I know about the revenues that constitute the Basketball Related Income (BRI) amount from the CBA is what is in the faq at the link above.

[turk3d]

Coons take:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/s ... als-110630

[floppymoose]

^^^

Ha! lol at the owners counting their purchase price of the team as a team expense and then using that to justify taking money from the players.

Talk about a rigged game. If the purchase price always counts as losses, then the owners are guaranteed to make money if they can get those "losses" to be recovered from the players' part of the pie. Effectively the players would be paying for the purchase of the team, but not getting any actual ownership stake.

[Twinkie defense]

And I have very little sympathy for owners who want a guaranteed profit no matter how stupidly they run their business, and want that guarantee on the backs of the players.

How come Patrick O'Bryant gets a guaranteed profit but Robert Sarver can't?

[J-Rich-]

So what's a lovable losing NHL team? BW don't root for winners.

The San Jose Sharks

[Coxy]

And I have very little sympathy for owners who want a guaranteed profit no matter how stupidly they run their business, and want that guarantee on the backs of the players.

How come Patrick O'Bryant gets a guaranteed profit but Robert Sarver can't?

That's the business. In order for Sarver to make money, he needs to make solid investment choices. The players create the revenue streams for owners, not the other way around. Business people make poor investment choices every day, POB is an example of one in the NBA business. Make a bad investment, lose money, simple.

It's not POBs fault NBA owners throw money at him. He tried his best, did well for himself with the little skill he posessed.

[Sleepy51]

And I have very little sympathy for owners who want a guaranteed profit no matter how stupidly they run their business, and want that guarantee on the backs of the players.

That's the business. In order for Sarver to make money, he needs to make solid investment choices. The players create the revenue streams for owners, not the other way around. Business people make poor investment choices every day, POB is an example of one in the NBA business. Make a bad investment, lose money, simple.

It's not POBs fault NBA owners throw money at him. He tried his best, did well for himself with the little skill he posessed.

It's actually the business as the OWNERS have engineered it.

The only multi-year guaranteed player contracts mandated under the recently expired CBA are those for rookie scale deals. Rookie scale was a CBA provision designed by and implemented for the benefit of OWNERS to prevent them from making mistakes on rookie contracts.

No veteran player is required to be offered a multi-year deal under the terms of the CBA. Multi-year deals for veteran players are offered at the discretion of owners. Owners do not have to offer Lebron, CP3, Monta Ellis, Kwame Brown or POB a multi-year contract other than those mandated by the rookie scale provisions of the CBA that they themselves (the owners) instituted.

If there were no such thing as Rookie scale, the marketplace would have set Patrick Obryant's value at draft time. Given his rawness and lack of track record, he very likely would have been drafted and then negotiated a partially guaranteed deal. If he made it out of Bakersfield by January, then his deal would have been guaranteed for the remainder of the season and an extension offered. The owners have screwed up that equation because some owners made (fewer) horrible decisions in the past about negotiating with higher 1st round picks. The hazard of mal-investment in a 1st round pick has now been distributed across the draft board rather than distributed by market forces. That never ends well.

Once again, this was a result of OWNER DRIVEN manipulation and attempts to insulate the capital investment from the natural and inherent risks of capital investment. This is a disease throughout our financial world today. Investors and financial professionals seek to engineer certainty in an inherently uncertain enterprise. Investment is SUPPOSED to hold inherent risk of loss. That is what discourages malinvestment. 30 years of Math PHD's going to work on Wall Street instead of building interstellar travel has resulted in an economy based almost entirely on risk transference. It doesn't work, and what we all experienced in 2008 was a warning shot of what happens when that risk transfer dance comes to a stop. The NBA owners are plagued by the same insanity and are trying once again to engineer their way out of the rabbit hole and are kicking the can down the road.

Market manipulative structures always adhere to the law of unintended consequences. When you try to limit the consequences of mal-investment in a marketplace with artificial constraints, you are ultimately and inevitably encourage mal-investment. It is as certain as the tides.

[gswhoops]

Am I the only person who doesn't care at all about the lockout drama? It's just millionaires fighting billionaires over a bigger slice of the pie. I really only care insofar as it means there's no basketball for me to watch.

[Left*My*Heart]

I'm only interested in the new CBA and don't care about the lockout drama. It will be interesting to see how things pan out for both sides.

The NBA needs to be careful. I understand the owners preference to have an equal playing field, but being greedy is only going to turn the casual fans away. A lockout that affects this season, is going to hurt the momentum the league has gained from the popularity and ratings of the finals. The league is finally returning to the popularity of the Jordon era, why set it back to a point that it might not fully recover from?

[floppymoose]

I hope the players freeze out the owners for the entire year. Let's see what happens to Stern when the profitable teams start to eat him alive.

[Left*My*Heart]

I'm not hoping for a long lockout; I miss NBA basketball.

I was disappointed in the NCAA regular season. The overall quality of play was down and I wasn't excited about any of the so called stars. Maybe this season will be better with some of the top talent returning to school and avoiding the NBA this season.