Official CBA/Labour Talks Discussion Thread

[Dr Positivity]

I guess, maybe, you could compare this to a PD, but then again not really - frankly one of these sides (spoiler: the owners) are going to benefit more than if they agreed on a middle ground right now. In the long run, they'll still be gaining more than if they backed down right now

Frankly it has more in common with the movie Heat. Actually, it has a lot in common with the movie Heat.

[J-Roc]

My resolution. It would be good enough if the minimum NBA contract was raised to......let's say $2M/yr, but then contracts were not guaranteed. How could players cry poor then?

Because the contracts are not guaranteed, and thus every player is one injury away from a rather bleak future.

An injury after $2M should not be a bleak future. And in this way, when a player is incapable of earning his keep, he gets turfed, but some other player comes in and take the job.

[bstein14]

Trade exception expires tonight at midnight... According to reports Cleveland is trying hard to get a deal done before midnight... most likely trying to absorb a contract for a future pick or young player to be added in.

Wonder if BC is working the phones with his or just planning on letting it expire.

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

Trade exception expires tonight at midnight... According to reports Cleveland is trying hard to get a deal done before midnight... most likely trying to absorb a contract for a future pick or young player to be added in.

Wonder if BC is working the phones with his or just planning on letting it expire.

I think BC is probably working the phones - he always does. I don't know what we could possibly get for the TPE other than Brendan Haywood or Biedrins maybe? But, I suspect Tyson Chandler is our primary target, so we'd probably wait after the lockout when FA begins.

[Schad]

An injury after $2M should not be a bleak future. And in this way, when a player is incapable of earning his keep, he gets turfed, but some other player comes in and take the job.

What happens if the player tears up his knee early in his rookie year?

[bboyskinnylegs]

daldridgetnt Lots of teams trying to make last-minute deals before #lockout anvil comes down. Houston, as ever, burning up the lines.

maybe they're trying to get rid of Flynn, already having Lowry and Dragic there.

[DG88]

The player did make a counter proposal during the meetings today

In his manufactured, grim disposition, the NBA’s commissioner proclaimed the union had made an 11th-hour counter proposal that would call for the average salary to rise $2 million over the length of the agreement.

The union walked into the meeting with Stern on Thursday at the Berkshire Omni Hotel on the Manhattan’s eastside, and offered $600 million in givebacks over a six-year deal, a league source told Yahoo! Sports. And yet before Stern left the hotel, he had called a news conference and turned those concessions into a money grab from the players. Hunter had left the building, and left behind his chance to spin the story.

More in link
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=a ... ers_063011

[bstein14]

The Players actually did submit an offer to the owners that was rejected Thursday.

They proposed a 6 year deal with the players getting this slice of the pie.

So the players wanted the average NBA salary to raise from $5 million to $7 million over the next 6 years.

spread out evenly over 6 years that's an average team salary of...

11-12: $75 million per team $5 million per player $2.25 billion total salaries
12-13: $81 million per team $5.4 million per player $2.43 billion total salaries
13-14: $87 million per team $5.8 million per player $2.61 billion total salaries
14-15: $93 million per team $6.2 million per player $2.79 billion total salaries
15-16: $99 million per team $6.6 million per player $2.97 billion total salaries
16-17: $105 million per team $7 million per player $3.15 billion total salaries

The Owners offered a guaranteed flat $2 billion per year to the players... the players want to start at $2.25 billion (not too far off just $250 million) but they want INSANE increases. On average they are $700 million per year apart... Over 6 years they are $4.2 BILLION apart!

Looks like the season will be lost. No doubt in my mind after seeing that as their best offer to prevent a lockout.

[bboyskinnylegs]

^^assuming there's 15 players on each team, that amounts to an approximate $0.9 billion increase in total player salaries from '11-'12 to '16-'17

[DG88]

And so it begins.....

NEW YORK -- The National Basketball Association announced that it will commence a lockout of its players, effective at 12:01 am ET on July 1, until a new collective bargaining agreement is reached with the National Basketball Players Association.

"The expiring collective bargaining agreement created a broken system that produced huge financial losses for our teams," said NBA Deputy Commissioner Adam Silver. "We need a sustainable business model that allows all 30 teams to be able to compete for a championship, fairly compensates our players, and provides teams, if well-managed, with an opportunity to be profitable."

"We have made several proposals to the union, including a deal targeting $2 billion annually as the players' share -- an average of approximately $5 million per player that could increase along with league revenue growth," said Silver. "Elements of our proposal would also better align players' pay with performance."

"We will continue to make every effort to reach a new agreement that is fair and in the best interests of our teams, our players, our fans, and our game."

During the lockout, players will not receive their salaries; teams will not negotiate, sign or trade player contracts; players will not be able to use team facilities for any purpose; and teams will not conduct or facilitate any summer camps, exhibitions, practices, workouts, coaching sessions, or team meetings.

The Official Release from NBA.com front page

[TheRealDeal]

welcome to the lockout y'all...check out the new http://www.nba.com layout

[DG88]

Some hilarious lockout tweets

CV31 Charlie Villanueva
Maaaaan I just got locked out my house too. Not a good night!!! What else could go wrong?

MichaelBlackson Michael Blackson
by JUNKakaCANDY
Nba lockout just begun, no mo pay checks for lebron so he cant pay his barber n his hairline can grow back

[Mr.Raptorsingh]

derekfisher
Hopefully we can find middle ground & continue to bring you the game you love so much! Keep the comments coming! I'm reading them all!


Spam Derek Fisher's twitter account! lol

[brownbobcat]

Dude, while I'm no professor, I do have a degree in economics - the prisoner's dilemma is about strategy sets and optimizing payoffs. Game theory, in this instance and context, is not about cheating. How is it about cheating when you aren't breaking any rules or don't have any unfair advantages?

I'll be brief. I'd like to know where you got your degree from.

He's an economic text written by the professor I'd studied from when I was doing my elective.
http://www.archive.org/stream/MichaelPa ... n_djvu.txt

Please read the chapter "oligopoly Games and Strategy O CHAPTER 1 3". For a theory that has nothing to do with cheating, the terms comply and cheat are used quite a bit......

I'll be even briefer, that textbook is horrible:

After studying this chapter

you will be able to:
Define economics and
dEstfnguIsh between
microecofiomics and
of economics
Explain tiie key ideas
that define the economic
way of thinking
l>ascrlbe how economists
go about their work as
social sctenlists

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that's a badly copied version and not how the original text appears. Having said that, it's not quite academically rigorous - it honestly appears to be pretty shoddy writing by most university standards. I'm not just saying that, I think most university graduates would agree if they gave it a quick skim. It's all the more shocking considering most intro books have been exactly the same since the 1970s.

More importantly, you didn't even read it properly. The intro to the PD says nothing about complying or cheating (that comes afterwards in the price-fixing game). And why should it? Cheating implies breaking the rules, a deception of some sort or some other asymmetric, "unfair" advantage. That is simply not possible in the classic PD example that most people use (and I'm 99% sure that's the version you were alluding to). Both players have identical choices, with identical payouts and identical information about each other. There is no collusion or agreement beforehand about both prisoners cooperating (not that it would matter), and hence, no cheating.

Furthermore, it doesn't apply to the owners at all. Nobody is "cheating" by being a dumbass and giving $120 million to Rashard Lewis. It's perfectly allowable, just really stupid.

[DG88]

More tweets

ShaneBattier Shane Battier
Dear @NBA, I hate public breakups. I'm sorry. Call me. Its never too late. Xoxo.

[J-Roc]

An injury after $2M should not be a bleak future. And in this way, when a player is incapable of earning his keep, he gets turfed, but some other player comes in and take the job.

What happens if the player tears up his knee early in his rookie year?

If he tears up his knee early in his rookie season, he still gets his full year salary. Contracts are only guaranteed for a year at a time. There you go, all problems solved.

[Deuces]

Check out nba.com and all the team sites. damn

[ZKS_STAL]

I completely see the owner's point of view. From a pure cost of living standpoint, the numbers are rediculous.

Year Cap Avg Salary
1984-85 $3.6 million $330,000

2003-04 $43.84 million $4,917,000

for an increase of:
1406%

Total inflation over the period from January 1984 to January 2005 is 87.14%
(http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Infl ... ulator.asp)

Therefor the adjusted salaries based on inflation and cost of living increases would be:
$617,562.00

And that means the salaries are overinflated by 705%.

I mean, that is a little bit ridiculous. I know the owners make tonnes of money (some of them), but no business is going to survive with raises in that range. It is not viable in my opinion.

let's not pretend this money is coming out of the owner's pockets.

the owners did this to themselves by outbidding each other for player services. once that's done they charge fans 10$ a beer and 6$ for a slice of pizza and 20$ to park their car...

sure, salaries may have skyrocketed - but so has the amount of money coming in.

[TheRealDeal]

Check out nba.com and all the team sites. damn

It's pretty strange. No trace of players on raptors.com doesn't seem right. Glad I watched some of the post-draft interviews, we won't be seeing those again for a while. The head story on our team page is about Dance Pack auditions. At least they're doing something productive during the lockout.

[FTW]

The NHL deal is bad because it forces teams to spend (it has a floor) who simply cannot make a profit doing so. Honestly, their system is flawed and/or there are teams who cannot support NHL hockey in their current market. Something needs to give. Last I heard, at least 9 NHL owners were looking to sell and get the hell out as quickly as possible. It's difficult to convince a new owner to come in and take on all that potential debt. Those puzzle pieces simply don't match up properly.

Ummmm yeah, but a guaranteed minimum floor is bad for the owners, and great for the players, no?

It's the players (well, Bonner) who've said the NHL deal is "the worst in history".