2012 lockout draft

Lava Rock Kid · Post #1 » by **Lava Rock Kid** » Fri Jul 1, 2011 9:33 pm

Their has been alot of discussion about how the draft would be done next year if their is no basketball this year. I found this on ESPN

If the lockout lasts an entire season, what will happen with the 2012 draft? How will the draft order be determined?
If the season is canceled and the sides come to an agreement by next June, the 2012 draft should go on as planned. The draft order will be a little tricky. There will be no season upon which to determine the order, and they can't just repeat the 2011 draft order -- that would "reward" teams twice for the same bad season in 2010-11.

The NHL was faced with this dilemma when it lost its 2004-05 season to a lockout. The league settled on a weighted lottery that included all 30 teams. The weighting was based on playoff appearances over the previous three seasons and first overall picks over the previous four seasons.

The NBA would likely adopt a similar system should the 2011-12 season be canceled. It would be a one-time occurrence -- the league would revert to its usual system the following year.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=coon_larry&page=lockoutFAQ-110701

Fido · Post #2 » by **Fido** » Fri Jul 1, 2011 9:57 pm

Good read. Larry Coon always does a great job with these FAQs to put things in language the everyday guy can understand.

seejaydeja · Post #3 » by **seejaydeja** » Fri Jul 1, 2011 11:24 pm

Always wondered this, but what would happen to traded picks? Would they still stand? For example, if this happened and the warriors got slotted 8th, would we get their pick since it's out of the protection?

Post #4 » by **DelaneyRudd** » Sat Jul 2, 2011 12:07 am

I think so since a traded pick is78/82 percent out of your control.

Maneesh · Post #5 » by **Maneesh** » Sat Jul 2, 2011 3:24 am

My thoughts for lockout is bad. I think this makes us win champion much longer and kanter sits longer and not play 3 years. Thiis selfish for greedy fisher. I know fisher is problem here when i see he took from our great leader millers kindness. Fisher caused tooo many problems and players should throw him now! They stand to him and say " we not like this you traitor!!!!". He will be throw from high ranks of players. This must end now!!! Our heros must be primed for champions and fisher try and steal from jazz. I know this. Isee it on tv and fisher face look like crazy general. He wants ruin this. I miss jazz now. Thanks to read my thoughts and i sorry for anger.

MeestR · Post #6 » by **MeestR** » Sat Jul 2, 2011 5:16 am

Maneesh wrote:My thoughts for lockout is bad. I think this makes us win champion much longer and kanter sits longer and not play 3 years. Thiis selfish for greedy fisher. I know fisher is problem here when i see he took from our great leader millers kindness. Fisher caused tooo many problems and players should throw him now! They stand to him and say " we not like this you traitor!!!!". He will be throw from high ranks of players. This must end now!!! Our heros must be primed for champions and fisher try and steal from jazz. I know this. Isee it on tv and fisher face look like crazy general. He wants ruin this. I miss jazz now. Thanks to read my thoughts and i sorry for anger.

Maneesh, your anger has cheered me up. thanks to share your thoughts.

carrottop12 · Post #7 » by **carrottop12** » Sat Jul 2, 2011 2:08 pm

Maneesh wrote:My thoughts for lockout is bad. I think this makes us win champion much longer and kanter sits longer and not play 3 years. Thiis selfish for greedy fisher. I know fisher is problem here when i see he took from our great leader millers kindness. Fisher caused tooo many problems and players should throw him now! They stand to him and say " we not like this you traitor!!!!". He will be throw from high ranks of players. This must end now!!! Our heros must be primed for champions and fisher try and steal from jazz. I know this. Isee it on tv and fisher face look like crazy general. He wants ruin this. I miss jazz now. Thanks to read my thoughts and i sorry for anger.

Maneesh, let me tell you something. Never, ever, ever apologize for your anger, it's always welcome here my friend.

Maneesh · Post #8 » by **Maneesh** » Sat Jul 2, 2011 4:12 pm

Thanks to listen to me accept anger. I dont want this stoppage. I miss Jazz free agent time. Fisher must step away and I am not miss games in season!

erudite23 · Post #9 » by **erudite23** » Mon Jul 4, 2011 4:02 am

Maneesh wrote:My thoughts for lockout is bad. I think this makes us win champion much longer and kanter sits longer and not play 3 years. Thiis selfish for greedy fisher. I know fisher is problem here when i see he took from our great leader millers kindness. Fisher caused tooo many problems and players should throw him now! They stand to him and say " we not like this you traitor!!!!". He will be throw from high ranks of players. This must end now!!! Our heros must be primed for champions and fisher try and steal from jazz. I know this. Isee it on tv and fisher face look like crazy general. He wants ruin this. I miss jazz now. Thanks to read my thoughts and i sorry for anger.

Best.Post.Ever.

Colby · Post #10 » by **Colby** » Mon Jul 4, 2011 2:29 pm

Maneesh you are my favorite Jazz fan hands down!

UTJazzFan_Echo1 · Post #11 » by **UTJazzFan_Echo1** » Mon Jul 4, 2011 4:25 pm

That sucks.

Wouldn't that mean Miami would have a much higher pick than the Cavs?

Post #12 » by **DelaneyRudd** » Mon Jul 4, 2011 4:33 pm

UTJazzFan_Echo1 wrote:That sucks.

Wouldn't that mean Miami would have a much higher pick than the Cavs?

lol

nghedman · Post #13 » by **nghedman** » Mon Jul 4, 2011 5:39 pm

So what are your thoughts here? Do we even get enough news on the subject to know whats going on but here is my take.

Those dang owners need to get it together!! I don't care if every team in the NBA is going bankrupt it's not the players or lets say "tenants" or "employees" fault. If the NBA goes to a "hard cap" they are flirting with losing great players to the highest bidder which can be over seas if the NBA has a hard cap. Much of what the MLS is doing which appears to being very successful since finally someone with some good business sense is running a soccer league. And if the best players go overseas then of course the next step is the overseas teams will win games and be better then the NBA or our Olympic team which is already starting to happen. The NBA owners better be careful and not get too greedy because if they use the excuse we are losing money and we need a hard cap it could come back to bit them very hard in the back side.

If I over pay for marketing and overpay my employees in my personal business to get the best employees in my speciality... yes I might win paying customers but if the paying customer won't pay ALL my bills it wouldn't be good business sense and I am over paying. The owners need to make rules for themselves, not push it onto the players. Rules like how to pay your bills on time and sign contracts you can afford. Rules on marketing your team and players, and tv contracts...internal business rules that are indirectly associated with a a hard cap. But to put on a direct hard cap will lose out to the competition of other basketball teams over seas.

So my view is with the players and to say shame on the owners, I see the writing on the wall with a hard cap and it scares me. Why can't the NBA just penalize the business if they are bad managers, and move the teams around to other owners, and hence other cities? They spend so much on training the player for the media and the player for entry into the NBA profession why don't they spend some money on training the owners to be good managers of their money. Is it obvious they have so much money they think they can just spend and get anything they want? I bet if they want a tv they just spend and buy it... a new car, they just buy it, a new home, no problem they are millionaires/billioniares, they buy what they want and that habit seems to be carrying over to their NBA team business. They have soooo much money are they really that bad at managing a business? They must be if they have so many teams that are losing money. They should be fining the owners if they over pay on a players contract not penalize the player. There are plenty of ways to penalize a bad manager and not penalize the players who are really excelling at their duties.

edited-
Just wanted to add I'm a fan and want to see the games start on time, lets watch basketball, come on owners!

Nate505 · Post #14 » by **Nate505** » Mon Jul 4, 2011 9:20 pm

Both sides need to give and take. Unfortunately, when two people firmly believe they are in the right that's a tough proposition.

nghedman · Post #15 » by **nghedman** » Tue Jul 5, 2011 2:16 pm

Ok..... why did my post get moved to the thread of next year's draft if their is a lockout? I wanted a thread for this years lockout subject period. How cares about the draft next year right now that is a year away.

It would have been nice to see the thread numbers too... hint on the first line of my post.

BarneyGumble · Post #16 » by **BarneyGumble** » Tue Jul 5, 2011 3:14 pm

Maneesh wrote:My thoughts for lockout is bad. I think this makes us win champion much longer and kanter sits longer and not play 3 years. Thiis selfish for greedy fisher. I know fisher is problem here when i see he took from our great leader millers kindness. Fisher caused tooo many problems and players should throw him now! They stand to him and say " we not like this you traitor!!!!". He will be throw from high ranks of players. This must end now!!! Our heros must be primed for champions and fisher try and steal from jazz. I know this. Isee it on tv and fisher face look like crazy general. He wants ruin this. I miss jazz now. Thanks to read my thoughts and i sorry for anger.

Your post made my Tuesday morning bright! :thumbsup:

nghedman · Post #17 » by **nghedman** » Tue Jul 5, 2011 3:42 pm

I'm with ya Barney. Those filthy rich just want a little bit more money, greedy fools. Lets just play the game and give us back our past time.

I don't think I could watch foreign basketball and the best talent will be going over seas with a hard cap, I guarantee it! Wouldn't you take the highest offer for a job pay check... who wouldn't. I can't stand college ball because the talent level is so bad.

johnnyblazzed · Post #18 » by **johnnyblazzed** » Tue Jul 5, 2011 4:32 pm

[quote="nghedman"]So what are your thoughts here? Do we even get enough news on the subject to know whats going on but here is my take.

Those dang owners need to get it together!! I don't care if every team in the NBA is going bankrupt it's not the players or lets say "tenants" or "employees" fault. If the NBA goes to a "hard cap" they are flirting with losing great players to the highest bidder which can be over seas if the NBA has a hard cap. Much of what the MLS is doing which appears to being very successful since finally someone with some good business sense is running a soccer league. And if the best players go overseas then of course the next step is the overseas teams will win games and be better then the NBA or our Olympic team which is already starting to happen. The NBA owners better be careful and not get too greedy because if they use the excuse we are losing money and we need a hard cap it could come back to bit them very hard in the back side.

If I over pay for marketing and overpay my employees in my personal business to get the best employees in my speciality... yes I might win paying customers but if the paying customer won't pay ALL my bills it wouldn't be good business sense and I am over paying. The owners need to make rules for themselves, not push it onto the players. Rules like how to pay your bills on time and sign contracts you can afford. Rules on marketing your team and players, and tv contracts...internal business rules that are indirectly associated with a a hard cap. But to put on a direct hard cap will lose out to the competition of other basketball teams over seas.

So my view is with the players and to say shame on the owners, I see the writing on the wall with a hard cap and it scares me. Why can't the NBA just penalize the business if they are bad managers, and move the teams around to other owners, and hence other cities? They spend so much on training the player for the media and the player for entry into the NBA profession why don't they spend some money on training the owners to be good managers of their money. Is it obvious they have so much money they think they can just spend and get anything they want? I bet if they want a tv they just spend and buy it... a new car, they just buy it, a new home, no problem they are millionaires/billioniares, they buy what they want and that habit seems to be carrying over to their NBA team business. They have soooo much money are they really that bad at managing a business? They must be if they have so many teams that are losing money. They should be fining the owners if they over pay on a players contract not penalize the player. There are plenty of ways to penalize a bad manager and not penalize the players who are really excelling at their duties.

edited-
Just wanted to add I'm a fan and want to see the games start on time, lets watch basketball, come on owners![/quote]

The owner’s are trying to fix their mistakes. Any business that has to reign in costs will always look to where the worst violations are. i.e. Rashard Lewis, Gilbert Arenas. It is not Rashard’s fault not Gilbert’s fault teams threw money at them, however the league are looking to create an environment where players, agents, and idiotic owners aren’t continuing down the overspending path. Overspending requires the owners to cover those costs, which usually means the fan loses with high ticket prices for a sub par product – i.e. Rashard Lewis.

A hard cap may be extreme, however know that both sides are posturing now. Though the owners would love a hard cap, non-guaranteed contracts, and so on, they are well aware there will be give and take. Both sides are waiting for the other to break. Once that happens, real negotiations begin.

Also, who cares how much the owners make in their business ventures outside of the NBA. The other business ventures should not be subsidizing their NBA team. That is terrible business management.

The59Sound · Post #19 » by **The59Sound** » Tue Jul 5, 2011 5:00 pm

I sympathize with both sides, and at the same time sympathize with neither.

I can understand why the players are so fervently resisting a drastic reduction in their NBA pay. Who would want to take a huge pay cut after a decade of their current wages? And given how few of them have successful post-basketball careers, their overwhelming desire to to get as much money as possible to secure their future makes perfect sense. But at the end of the day, I still think, "Oh my God. I get paid in one year what they get paid for one practice. Are you telling me you can't live off of 4 million dollars???"

Then there's the owners. I can understand why they think the current system is way out-of-whack, both for fielding a competitive team and for turning a profit. The personnel costs are definitely prohibitive for some clubs. But, once more, when I hear the "we're just trying to put food on the table"-type talk from these millionaire and billionaire owners, I want to punch them in the mouth. And if I had the choice between who I'd prefer to be getting millions and millions of dollars -- the players (who often come from tough economic circumstances and are supporting their nuclear and extended families) or the owners (who are generally corporate kingpin types... with obvious exceptions), I'd probably go with the former.

It's just a debacle. Both sides need to make concessions, but are so convinced of their rightness that this will drag on interminably. It's going to be awful not having any basketball come November.

nghedman · Post #20 » by **nghedman** » Thu Jul 7, 2011 3:08 pm

nghedman wrote:I'm with ya Barney. Those filthy rich just want a little bit more money, greedy fools. Lets just play the game and give us back our past time.

I don't think I could watch foreign basketball and the best talent will be going over seas with a hard cap, I guarantee it! ...

Check this out. Deron understands how the system works. He is a smart man, but of course he learns from a smart Jazz front office.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... h_Besiktas

I would have Deron back any day but he has to look out for himself and keep himself primed for his goals.