Andray Blatche - Resurgence Thread ( Merged )

[pcbothwel]

^^^ Agree, I had a good feeling about Blatche this year but the last thing this team needs is a year off.

[Wizardspride]

Why is Blatche getting in shape in Miami? I'm just saying, it seems like there are plenty of good gyms in cities with fewer distractions.

Blatche has a home in Miami.

[hands11]

Well we got a little news on Dray and it was good news. That is all we have to go on. Better than bad news.

Man this is going to suck if they don't work out an agreement.

[Illuminaire]

Why is Blatche getting in shape in Miami? I'm just saying, it seems like there are plenty of good gyms in cities with fewer distractions.

Blatche has a home in Miami.

Blatche was born in NY and went to high school in Connecticut. His home in Miami is for pleasure purposes, not business or family.

So while I thank you for adding to my point, we still don't have a satisfactory answer to the question.

[Chocolate City Jordanaire]

Why is Blatche getting in shape in Miami? I'm just saying, it seems like there are plenty of good gyms in cities with fewer distractions.

I hope he does what he says he will, I'm just feeling a tad cynical if he's basing himself out of party central.

My first thought is that back in the day, Jimmy Johnson had the Canes in the best shape of any NCAA football players. The U has put some of the fastest and fittest guys in the league. Dwayne Johnson aka "The Rock" played at Miami, as did Micheal Irvin.

Just because the party's on in a particular city, that doesn't preclude a guy from getting in shape.

It's more a testimonial to that player's work ethic the shape he gets in. As I see it, Blatche is 24 but a 7-yr NBA player. We saw 7-Day Dray have a lot of success. He's usually in shape on April Fool's day. But other than that, he's usually not in shape. He's got the reputation of an immature guy who doesn't take the greatest care but is always on time for Lap Dance Tuesday.

That said, I think with Blatche about to be 25 and about to be a baby daddy, he probably will get in good shape. Andray is very highly skilled. I think he works hard on his game but just is not that athletic or disciplined to get in great shape and stay that way.

Miami's got nothing to do with it IMO. You can go ho chasing in Minot, North Dakota. There are wrong things to get involved with everywhere.

[Illuminaire]

You could also stay on your diet while going to buffets every night, but no one could say that was a smart way of going about it.

[hands11]

Why is Blatche getting in shape in Miami? I'm just saying, it seems like there are plenty of good gyms in cities with fewer distractions.

I hope he does what he says he will, I'm just feeling a tad cynical if he's basing himself out of party central.

My first thought is that back in the day, Jimmy Johnson had the Canes in the best shape of any NCAA football players. The U has put some of the fastest and fittest guys in the league. Dwayne Johnson aka "The Rock" played at Miami, as did Micheal Irvin.

Just because the party's on in a particular city, that doesn't preclude a guy from getting in shape.

It's more a testimonial to that player's work ethic the shape he gets in. As I see it, Blatche is 24 but a 7-yr NBA player. We saw 7-Day Dray have a lot of success. He's usually in shape on April Fool's day. But other than that, he's usually not in shape. He's got the reputation of an immature guy who doesn't take the greatest care but is always on time for Lap Dance Tuesday.

That said, I think with Blatche about to be 25 and about to be a baby daddy, he probably will get in good shape. Andray is very highly skilled. I think he works hard on his game but just is not that athletic or disciplined to get in great shape and stay that way.

Miami's got nothing to do with it IMO. You can go ho chasing in Minot, North Dakota. There are wrong things to get involved with everywhere.

Dray is going to be a daddy ? I either forgot this or missed it.

Not saying it will help, but it can help some to focus more. In Gils case it ended up a nightmare but for some, this is a good change in life.

[Illuminaire]

I don't know if we've seen verification of that. It was a sketchy internet rumor last I heard. (NOT a good situation, by that account. He'd be paying bills, not trying to raise a kid... all the pain, none of the reward.)

Anyone heard more?

[JonathanJoseph]

It seems that every important offseason thread has some Blatche-hate going so I'll just make this point here, because this continues to amaze me. Nate is not a Blatche-hater, but in a recent post he did not include Blatche in the "legitimate" starter category of players on the current roster. The lack of perspective on Blatche continues to be outrageous.

I think we all agree that Blatche, injury riddled or not, had a poor season. I think we all agree that Blatche played well below what he is capable of despite averaging 16/8/2.

For context, let's consider the List of NBA players who have averaged 16/8/2 in a season since 2000:

6'11'' and above:
Garnett
Duncan
Dirk
Shaq
Pau Gasol
Lamarcus Aldridge
Mehmet Okur
Jermaine O'Neal
Brook Lopez
Yao
Blatche

6'9'' and above also includes:
Andrei Kirilienko
Kevin Love
Chris Webber
Carlos Boozer
Chris Bosh
Blake Griffin
Antonio McDyess (2000)
Shareef Abdur Rahim (2001)
Kenyon Martin (2003)
David West
Luis Scola
David Lee
Josh Smith

I believe everyone on those lists, except for Josh Smith, Memhet Okur and Luis Scola, have been to all-star games. I'm also pretty certain that if you told me we had any of the above players at age 24 and locked up at about $7M/year we would all agree that they would be pretty close to untouchable given relative contract value.

[7-Day Dray]

It seems that every important offseason thread has some Blatche-hate going so I'll just make this point here, because this continues to amaze me. Nate is not a Blatche-hater, but in a recent post he did not include Blatche in the "legitimate" starter category of players on the current roster. The lack of perspective on Blatche continues to be outrageous.

I think we all agree that Blatche, injury riddled or not, had a poor season. I think we all agree that Blatche played well below what he is capable of despite averaging 16/8/2.

For context, let's consider the List of NBA players who have averaged 16/8/2 in a season since 2000:

6'11'' and above:
Garnett
Duncan
Dirk
Shaq
Pau Gasol
Lamarcus Aldridge
Mehmet Okur
Jermaine O'Neal
Brook Lopez
Yao
Blatche

6'9'' and above also includes:
Andrei Kirilienko
Kevin Love
Chris Webber
Carlos Boozer
Chris Bosh
Blake Griffin
Antonio McDyess (2000)
Shareef Abdur Rahim (2001)
Kenyon Martin (2003)
David West
Luis Scola
David Lee
Josh Smith

I believe everyone on those lists, except for Josh Smith, Memhet Okur and Luis Scola, have been to all-star games. I'm also pretty certain that if you told me we had any of the above players at age 24 and locked up at about $7M/year we would all agree that they would be pretty close to untouchable given relative contract value.

Exactly. All Wizards fans most likely agree that he had a poor season, but he still put up good numbers. That shows shows you how good he can be at his peak.

I'm just stunned with all the posters that wanna dump him for nothing.

[Wizards2Lottery]

I used to love all the 16-20 point games that Dray would have on 6-20 shooting.

Hooray for empty numbers.

[Illuminaire]

I'm still stunned by how none of that categorizes Blatche's unwillingness to rotate on defense.

Blatche certainly has the tools to be a legitimate NBA starter. For quite some time, though, his overall production has been more what Wiz2lottery just said... empty numbers.

I agree that dumping him for nothing is foolish. Calling him "untouchable" seems to be the opposite extreme, however, and just as difficult to defend.

[JonathanJoseph]

I'm still stunned by how none of that categorizes Blatche's unwillingness to rotate on defense.

Blatche certainly has the tools to be a legitimate NBA starter. For quite some time, though, his overall production has been more what Wiz2lottery just said... empty numbers.

I agree that dumping him for nothing is foolish. Calling him "untouchable" seems to be the opposite extreme, however, and just as difficult to defend.

No, I've said repeatedly that his effort on defense this last season was inexcusable. But I place that blame squarely on Ernie Grunfeld and the Eddie Jordan/Ed Tapscott/Gilbert Arenas/Caron Butler/Antawn Jamison era. Blatche has learned throughout his career that the best veteran players are allowed to take any shot they want while not giving full effort on defense.

The reason that Wall/Booker/Seraphin/Vesley/Singleton/Mack were brought in to bring a tough defensive mindset to DC is because there is and has been a culture problem in the Wizards locker room. Blatche is an effect of the culture, not the cause.

I don't want to hear any more of this "empty numbers" garbage. Not one person has labeled Jordan Crawford's torrid finish to the season "empty numbers" showing the the anti-Blatche bias continues to be prevalent. That characterization suggests any NBA player can put up 16/8/2 if they just get enough shots and play on a bad enough team, which is clearly false.

edit: the Clippers finished 32-50. Either explain how Blake Griffin's inclusion on this list somehow is not "empty numbers" or please dispense of that argument.

[Wizards2Lottery]

When you shoot like ass all season and give **** effort, they are indeed empty numbers. I did not watch Blake Griffin to form an opinion.

Dray's shooting percentages speak for themselves. Comparing him to a rookie is foolish.

[Ruzious]

I'm still stunned by how none of that categorizes Blatche's unwillingness to rotate on defense.

Blatche certainly has the tools to be a legitimate NBA starter. For quite some time, though, his overall production has been more what Wiz2lottery just said... empty numbers.

I agree that dumping him for nothing is foolish. Calling him "untouchable" seems to be the opposite extreme, however, and just as difficult to defend.

No, I've said repeatedly that his effort on defense this last season was inexcusable. But I place that blame squarely on Ernie Grunfeld and the Eddie Jordan/Ed Tapscott/Gilbert Arenas/Caron Butler/Antawn Jamison era. Blatche has learned throughout his career that the best veteran players are allowed to take any shot they want while not giving full effort on defense.

The reason that Wall/Booker/Seraphin/Vesley/Singleton/Mack were brought in to bring a tough defensive mindset to DC is because there is and has been a culture problem in the Wizards locker room. Blatche is an effect of the culture, not the cause.

I don't want to hear any more of this "empty numbers" garbage. Not one person has labeled Jordan Crawford's torrid finish to the season "empty numbers" showing the the anti-Blatche bias continues to be prevalent. That characterization suggests any NBA player can put up 16/8/2 if they just get enough shots and play on a bad enough team, which is clearly false.

edit: the Clippers finished 32-50. Either explain how Blake Griffin's inclusion on this list somehow is not "empty numbers" or please dispense of that argument.

You're just so wrong - it's like you're trying to be wrong most of the time.

Everyone is personally responsible for their effort or lack of effort - no matter what the culture is - no matter what sport or business you're talking about. And everyone should be held accountable for their effort or lack thereof.

As far as Arenas, Jamison, and Butler's shot selection being a cause of Blatche's inefficiency, that's more garbage that's been disproven in this forum time after time after time. It's discouraging that people post garbage. There was nothing wrong with the offense of "the big 3". Arenas was a very efficient scorer before his injuries. Jamison was an efficient scorer during his entire tenure with the team. Butler was an efficient scorer until his final season here - when he was lousy.

Crawford was a very inefficient scorer - and that has been pointed out many times, but he was a rookie asked to play major minutes after joining the team in midseason and often asked to play the point. It's ridiculous to compare his situation to Blatche's. And as for comparing Blake Griffin to Blatche, that's so absurd, I won't even get into that.

Whether you're tired of hearing it or not, Blatche's numbers were empty numbers. His play was garbage a lot of the time. You can talk about 16/8/2 till you're blue or green or purple in the face. It doesn't matter when you're contributing to the team losing. Wins and losses are what matters. Other teams actually realize that. Because of that, I doubt there's any trade market for him - other than teams being willing to trade away players they don't want, anyway. Whether the Wiz like it or not, they probably have to keep him another year, because of his lack of value and the fact that they don't have front court players who can shoot or score. The Wiz will stink next season due to lack of ability and experience, and barring him doing something even more embarrassing than usual - Blatche will be their starting PF - if there's a season. It's a lousy situation and something I'd like to forget about for the rest of the day. Happy 4th!

[JonathanJoseph]

And as for comparing Blake Griffin to Blatche, that's so absurd, I won't even get into that.

Whether you're tired of hearing it or not, Blatche's numbers were empty numbers. His play was garbage a lot of the time. You can talk about 16/8/2 till you're blue or green or purple in the face. It doesn't matter when you're contributing to the team losing. Wins and losses are what matters. Other teams actually realize that.

Except I'm the one using facts and you are just telling me how wrong I am (and that I'm trying to be wrong) but are unwilling to offer any proof.

As you said yourself, all that matters is winning and losing. So either Blake Griffin's numbers are also "empty", or your point is moot.

[doclinkin]

And as for comparing Blake Griffin to Blatche, that's so absurd, I won't even get into that.

Whether you're tired of hearing it or not, Blatche's numbers were empty numbers. His play was garbage a lot of the time. You can talk about 16/8/2 till you're blue or green or purple in the face. It doesn't matter when you're contributing to the team losing. Wins and losses are what matters. Other teams actually realize that.

Except I'm the one using facts and you are just telling me how wrong I am (and that I'm trying to be wrong) but are unwilling to offer any proof.

As you said yourself, all that matters is winning and losing. So either Blake Griffin's numbers are also "empty", or your point is moot.

Look I'm always the first guy to say 'wait and see' on Blatche. He's a bit lazy but often manages to say the right thing in interviews, even pointing up his own flaws in interviews. Self-awareness is key to improvement. However, there's ample evidence that he's putting up empty stats. If you do your same sort for players 6'10" or taller with eFG% of .45 or less then Dray finds himself in company with Kwame Brown, Manute Bol, Kevin Duckworth...

http://tinyurl.com/emptydray

And if you want to drag Griff into it: check counterpart match-up:
Dray. http://www.82games.com/1011/10WAS20.HTM#bypos
Blake. http://www.82games.com/1011/10LAC14.HTM#bypos

For the majority of the minutes they play, Dray is giving up just about exactly whatever he gets for the team, or a little less, whereas Griff is destroying his opponents and holding them below the league average.

I like him, as always he has a ton of room for development, he is 'only' 24 and should be reaching his peak any day now, one of these years, but there's no way to say that Dray has ever reached his potential or accomplished much in this league. Yet.

[montestewart]

Everyone here's pretty much an idiot that cherry picks selected low lights of Blatche's career in order to present a distorted view that justifies his expendability. That's pretty much the argument, right?

Fact: if you run that 16/8/2 list, Blatche's EFG% and TS% (from his only season on the list) ranks near rock bottom. The only comparable player was Webber, who had greater overall production than Blatche's in virtually all seasons on the list and was generally a better rebounder and passer.

Fact: if you make a list using a player's best season as the floor, of course that season will be on the list. It will be the floor. Almost every other season on that list is necessarily better according to the stated criteria. Eventually you can pull Mortimer Snerd into a list with MJ, but what does that prove? Nothing, except they are on the same list.

Fact: many, many, many people complained about the failures of the Big-3 on defense, but their offensive production was almost always more efficient than Blatche's, so there was nothing to complain about there.

Fact: plenty of people observed and continue to observe the inefficient scoring of Crawford (although Ruzious well pointed out how his situation is hardly comparable to Blatche's).

These facts rebut the "facts" that manipulate fantasy into reality, the hallmark of the true believer in the cult of Blatche. What other fantastic allegations have spilled onto the floor of this temple to Blatche? Happy to rebut. Here at the cat club, we require facts whenever possible. And, while you can't easily prove a negative, I can prove a positive; I just don't want to. Why would I try to stop the comedy of such unaBlatchedly Blatchemomania?

I gotta go get my Ritalin injection from Chipotle.

[hands11]

I'm still stunned by how none of that categorizes Blatche's unwillingness to rotate on defense.

Blatche certainly has the tools to be a legitimate NBA starter. For quite some time, though, his overall production has been more what Wiz2lottery just said... empty numbers.

I agree that dumping him for nothing is foolish. Calling him "untouchable" seems to be the opposite extreme, however, and just as difficult to defend.

No, I've said repeatedly that his effort on defense this last season was inexcusable. But I place that blame squarely on Ernie Grunfeld and the Eddie Jordan/Ed Tapscott/Gilbert Arenas/Caron Butler/Antawn Jamison era. Blatche has learned throughout his career that the best veteran players are allowed to take any shot they want while not giving full effort on defense.

The reason that Wall/Booker/Seraphin/Vesley/Singleton/Mack were brought in to bring a tough defensive mindset to DC is because there is and has been a culture problem in the Wizards locker room. Blatche is an effect of the culture, not the cause.

I don't want to hear any more of this "empty numbers" garbage. Not one person has labeled Jordan Crawford's torrid finish to the season "empty numbers" showing the the anti-Blatche bias continues to be prevalent. That characterization suggests any NBA player can put up 16/8/2 if they just get enough shots and play on a bad enough team, which is clearly false.

edit: the Clippers finished 32-50. Either explain how Blake Griffin's inclusion on this list somehow is not "empty numbers" or please dispense of that argument.

You're just so wrong - it's like you're trying to be wrong most of the time.

Everyone is personally responsible for their effort or lack of effort - no matter what the culture is - no matter what sport or business you're talking about. And everyone should be held accountable for their effort or lack thereof.

As far as Arenas, Jamison, and Butler's shot selection being a cause of Blatche's inefficiency, that's more garbage that's been disproven in this forum time after time after time. It's discouraging that people post garbage. There was nothing wrong with the offense of "the big 3". Arenas was a very efficient scorer before his injuries. Jamison was an efficient scorer during his entire tenure with the team. Butler was an efficient scorer until his final season here - when he was lousy.

Crawford was a very inefficient scorer - and that has been pointed out many times, but he was a rookie asked to play major minutes after joining the team in midseason and often asked to play the point. It's ridiculous to compare his situation to Blatche's. And as for comparing Blake Griffin to Blatche, that's so absurd, I won't even get into that.

Whether you're tired of hearing it or not, Blatche's numbers were empty numbers. His play was garbage a lot of the time. You can talk about 16/8/2 till you're blue or green or purple in the face. It doesn't matter when you're contributing to the team losing. Wins and losses are what matters. Other teams actually realize that. Because of that, I doubt there's any trade market for him - other than teams being willing to trade away players they don't want, anyway. Whether the Wiz like it or not, they probably have to keep him another year, because of his lack of value and the fact that they don't have front court players who can shoot or score. The Wiz will stink next season due to lack of ability and experience, and barring him doing something even more embarrassing than usual - Blatche will be their starting PF - if there's a season. It's a lousy situation and something I'd like to forget about for the rest of the day. Happy 4th!

There was everything wrong with the offense of the big three. Talk about empty stats. AJ was the king of empty stats. And Gil was a nut/goof ball and never involved the post game and jacked shots like Micheal Adams and played about as much D. It was all CB could do to jack up a few to keep up. I remember that one playoff series that AJ averaged like 30 pts a game when CB and Gil were hurt. talk about EMPTY. And that was supposed to be his mentor ? I think Haywood played a few games when EFJ wasnt sitting him for Etan or Ruffin. Haywood probably got about 4 shots a game.

This was the crap a young young Dray was brought into and grow up in until they blow the team up. Just a bad fit for a kid like him. He was not a Ves type. Ves is good looking kid that can already get the ladies and has some swag. He has confidence. He played in front of large Euro crowds shouting him name. Wall ( the #1 pick ) only had to deal with 1 year of dysfunction and it was already under the new owner and plan. Dray was goofy with messed up teeth that wished he could get the ladies. I bring that up because it is about confidence and focus. Dray was one of those kind of guys that wanted to be cool. He didnt have any swag. He was a shy kind of kid. Kind of like Nick. All he had was that he was a good basketball prospect. But at least Nick got some college ball under his belt. I mention this because it is not uncommon for a young dude who doesn't have confidence and pull with the ladies to make that a focus. So now he has straight teeth and money. I'm sure he is making up for lost time.

This was just a terrible place for Dray to land. Had he landed in SA, he would probably be an All Star already. All that said, it makes me wonder if Dray is to far gone to be fixed after being around this crap for six years, but he does deserve a chance to turn it around. This new owner/coach/GM combo and roster is the most stable, focused, defensive oriented team he has ever had. Wall is a way more focused stable leader than Gil was. There is no AJ type no D player logging minutes in front of him. Dray had shown enough back then to earn the starting PF job but that just wasn't going to happen because EFJ didnt have the balls to do it.

So does Dray have the skills to be really really good ? I think most would say yes. Has he been in a good environment with this organization to bring all of that out ? I think most would say no. Is this newly constructed team and organization his best chance ? I think most again would say yes. Is this strike happening at the worst time for Dray and the team ? I say it would be better if they got to play. They have a lot to evaluate.

Can Dray still put it all together ? I say that is about a 50-50% chance. Maybe 55%-45% Not terrible odds considering the talent he has and his age and contract. But he has to do it now.

So sure, some of this is Dray's fault, but so much of it is the organization a kid like him came into. It was just a bad fit for a kid like Dray. I would put that at 70 to 75% the organization/situation/players/coach and 25-30% on Dray.

But things are different now. He needs to realize that and take advantage of the opportunity. He still has a lot of growing up to do but at least now the environment is conducive to he doing it. Time to turn the page Dray. Time to take advantage of your talent and opportunity.

[montestewart]

What's a shot jacker? I thought this was a family friendly site.