The Politics Thread - please direct all related posts here..

[Jimako10]

In 7th or 8th grade social studies (1998), I remember one student in my class who asked what was the difference between republicans and democrats. My teacher quietly went up to the chalk board, and proceeded to write

"3%"

I'm sure you guys can guess what that means but I find it funny looking back because it's never been as true as it is right now.

[duetta]

This, as I say, is the mother of all no-brainers.

But we can have no confidence that the Republicans will seize this opportunity. That’s because the Republican Party may no longer be a normal party. Over the past few years, it has been infected by a faction that is more of a psychological protest than a practical, governing alternative.

The members of this movement do not accept the logic of compromise, no matter how sweet the terms. If you ask them to raise taxes by an inch in order to cut government by a foot, they will say no. If you ask them to raise taxes by an inch to cut government by a yard, they will still say no.

The members of this movement do not accept the legitimacy of scholars and intellectual authorities. A thousand impartial experts may tell them that a default on the debt would have calamitous effects, far worse than raising tax revenues a bit. But the members of this movement refuse to believe it.

The members of this movement have no sense of moral decency. A nation makes a sacred pledge to pay the money back when it borrows money. But the members of this movement talk blandly of default and are willing to stain their nation’s honor.

The members of this movement have no economic theory worthy of the name. Economists have identified many factors that contribute to economic growth, ranging from the productivity of the work force to the share of private savings that is available for private investment. Tax levels matter, but they are far from the only or even the most important factor.

But to members of this movement, tax levels are everything. Members of this tendency have taken a small piece of economic policy and turned it into a sacred fixation. They are willing to cut education and research to preserve tax expenditures. Manufacturing employment is cratering even as output rises, but members of this movement somehow believe such problems can be addressed so long as they continue to worship their idol.

Over the past week, Democrats have stopped making concessions. They are coming to the conclusion that if the Republicans are fanatics then they better be fanatics, too.

The struggles of the next few weeks are about what sort of party the G.O.P. is — a normal conservative party or an odd protest movement that has separated itself from normal governance, the normal rules of evidence and the ancient habits of our nation.

If the debt ceiling talks fail, independents voters will see that Democrats were willing to compromise but Republicans were not. If responsible Republicans don’t take control, independents will conclude that Republican fanaticism caused this default. They will conclude that Republicans are not fit to govern.

And they will be right.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/opinion/05brooks.html

[mugzi]

Is that a NY Slimes editorial or an official press release from the DNC? I havent been able to tell the difference in years.


And this is economic ineptitude at its finest, forget shovel ready jobs something was shoveled alright. Anyone who thinks Obamacare won't be rife with the same type of GROSS INCOMPETENCE is a delusional fool.

Obama’s Economists: ‘Stimulus’ Has Cost $278,000 per Job
The stimulus is now causing the economy to shed jobs.
12:07 PM, JUL 3, 2011 • BY JEFFREY H. ANDERSON
When the Obama administration releases a report on the Friday before a long weekend, it’s clearly not trying to draw attention to the report’s contents. Sure enough, the “Seventh Quarterly Report” on the economic impact of the “stimulus,” released on Friday, July 1, provides further evidence that President Obama’s economic “stimulus” did very little, if anything, to stimulate the economy, and a whole lot to stimulate the debt.


The report was written by the White House’s Council of Economic Advisors, a group of three economists who were all handpicked by Obama, and it chronicles the alleged success of the “stimulus” in adding or saving jobs. The council reports that, using “mainstream estimates of economic multipliers for the effects of fiscal stimulus” (which it describes as a “natural way to estimate the effects of” the legislation), the “stimulus” has added or saved just under 2.4 million jobs — whether private or public — at a cost (to date) of $666 billion. That’s a cost to taxpayers of $278,000 per job.

In other words, the government could simply have cut a $100,000 check to everyone whose employment was allegedly made possible by the “stimulus,” and taxpayers would have come out $427 billion ahead.

Furthermore, the council reports that, as of two quarters ago, the “stimulus” had added or saved just under 2.7 million jobs — or 288,000 more than it has now. In other words, over the past six months, the economy would have added or saved more jobs without the “stimulus” than it has with it. In comparison to how things would otherwise have been, the “stimulus” has been working in
reverse over the past six months, causing the economy to shed jobs.

Again, this is the verdict of Obama’s own Council of Economic Advisors, which is about as much of a home-field ruling as anyone could ever ask for. In truth, it’s quite possible that by borrowing an amount greater than the regular defense budget or the annual cost of Medicare, and then spending it mostly on Democratic constituencies rather than in a manner genuinely designed to stimulate the economy, Obama’s “stimulus” has actually undermined the economy’s recovery — while leaving us (thus far) $666 billion deeper in debt.

The actual employment numbers from the administration’s own Bureau of Labor Statistics show that the unemployment rate was 7.3 percent when the “stimulus” was being debated. It has since risen to 9.1 percent. Meanwhile, the national debt at the end of 2008, when Obama was poised to take office, was $9.986 trillion (see Table S-9). It’s now $14.467 trillion — and counting.

All sides agree on these incriminating numbers — and now they also appear to agree on this important point: The economy would now be generating job growth at a faster rate if the Democrats
hadn’t passed the “stimulus.”



Clueless, just f'n clueless, or corrupt and hellbent on destroying this superpower, you pick.

[Manhattan Project]

So are going to see the 03 Bush tax cuts again soon?
Are these tax cuts going to cost jobs 6-7 years later?
Aren't we just going to repeat this again?

Oh politics.

[richardhutnik]

I was asked to pop in here and visit and post and reply. Well, I did, but here you go, one more. Let's go beyond Libertarianism into... Anarchy!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juKld6ksmag[/youtube]

Have fun...

- Rich

[knicks82023]

Mugzi did you even read the document the white house put out? They constantly say more jobs were added bc of the stimulus. Read the conclusion if you don't want to read the whole thing. The writer of that article is confusing less jobs being added than they had thought with losing jobs.

[mugzi]

Are you seriously going to question my comprehension skills after that azz pounding your commie in chief just got by his own economic advisors?

What part of 278k per job created dont you understand?

Do you realize we couldve cut each of these supposed people whose jobs were saved a check for 100k and saved over 400 bilion dollars????

I don't understand how any of you other than being brainwashed by the alphabet media, academia and the liberal hipster city you live in can be so deluded by this charlatan.

You know why Wingo is missing? Because he knows this article highlights this administrations ECONOMIC INEPTITUDE AND OR DELIBERATE SABOTAGE.

Im sick of this crap. I went food shopping today and not only have companies reduced their portion sizes 12.5% on many items {that pound of smoked turkey is now 14oz} but prices are also up 10-15%

If thats not inflation, tell me what is? {Thanks Helicopter Ben}

And all the greedy corporations Wingo likes to pin all our troubles on are sitting on cash for one reason and one reason only. ECONOMIC UNCERTAINTY AND OVERZEALOUS BUREAUCRACY.

Im the last angry man when it comes to politics on this board. And if it weren't for me, many people wouldn't have the faintest idea of whats really going on, regardless of how they feel about my viewpoint.

So don't come to me parrotting the WH press release or latest fabricated document they've produced putting lipstick on a pig. Its still a pig, no matter how they dress it up.

[knicks82023]

I am not questioning your reading comprehension,you read the authors interpretation just fine. I just question if you read the report the author references bc it talks up the stimulus the whole time. The figures are skewed bc the jobs produce benefits for the country (is infrastructure) and had to be made at some pt in time anyway.

One sec you say look at the beatdown his advisors gave him and the next you dismiss everything they say. Which is it? Are they credible or not.

You can skew numbers in all sorts of ways if you try hard enough. That's not to say I agree w everythin Obama has done, but giving people 100k is not the same.

[duetta]

Is that a NY Slimes editorial or an official press release from the DNC? I havent been able to tell the difference in years.

It was by David Brooks, one of the Times' conservative columnists.

[mugzi]

He's about as "conservative" as Morning Joe on PMSNBC. Theres no such thing as a conservative at the NY Times. We both know that.

[HarthorneWingo]

He's about as "conservative" as Morning Joe on PMSNBC. Theres no such thing as a conservative at the NY Times. We both know that.

He's such a communist.

Mugzi, you are so out of your mind (but you do make me laugh ). I guess Ronald Reagan must be a Marxist according your standards today.

Republicans today are nothing but a bunch of debt-shufflers who outsource American jobs ... and don't pay taxes.

[MF Doom]

Republicans today are nothing but a bunch of debt-shufflers who outsource American jobs ... and don't pay taxes.

Wake Up. The status quo Republican and Democrat don't give a damn about you. They only want your votes. If you send one to public office, hold them accountable. I despise both parties. I now vote based on the ideology of the INDIVIDUAL, not the party affiliation.

[tuckerfor3]

Republicans today are nothing but a bunch of debt-shufflers who outsource American jobs ... and don't pay taxes.

Wake Up. The status quo Republican and Democrat don't give a damn about you. They only want your votes. If you send one to public office, hold them accountable. I despise both parties. I now vote based on the ideology of the INDIVIDUAL, not the party affiliation.

Good for you, Doom. Blind allegiance is for posers, anyway.

[mugzi]

He's about as "conservative" as Morning Joe on PMSNBC. Theres no such thing as a conservative at the NY Times. We both know that.

He's such a communist.

Mugzi, you are so out of your mind (but you do make me laugh ). I guess Ronald Reagan must be a Marxist according your standards today.

Republicans today are nothing but a bunch of debt-shufflers who outsource American jobs ... and don't pay taxes.

If it werent for me, the dreck you post would go unchallenged. I have nothing but admiration for the job Reagan did. He stood up to your comrades in the USSR and he rescued the economy from the NWO psychotic, communist, terrorist sympathizing peanut farmer who gave us rampant inflation and economic malaise {deja vu huh? }

GE didnt pay taxes on 6 billion in taxes. Care to tell me where their politics lie? The parent company of NBC and whose CEO recently accompanied the POTUS to Brazil.

And how many jobs have GE outsourced?

Now I never liked GHWB as I view him as part of the NWO, but it was Slick Willy who greenlit NAFTA which is responsible for this outsourcing you erroneously try to demagogue the GOP with.

In three separate ceremonies in the three capitals on Dec. 17, 1992, President Bush, Mexican President Salinas, and Canadian Prime Minister Mulroney signed the historic North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). The framework agreement proposed to eliminate restrictions on the flow of goods, services, and investment in North America. The House of Representatives approved NAFTA, by a vote of 234 to 200 on November 17, 1993, and the Senate voted 60 to 38 for approval on November 20. It was signed into law by President Clinton on December 8, 1993, and took effect on January 1, 1994.

Read more: North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) — Infoplease.com http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104566. ... z1RO4PyaSk

And lets just address this weeks shenanigans from your man. Nevermind the fact you didnt EVEN TRY to address the 278k cost per job from the brilliant stimulus- and those shovel ready jobs.

This week alone- Operation Gun Runner- this alone is a huge scandal which at the very least implicates Holder who the head of the ATF said he got his marching orders from. And who does Holder get his marching orders from? Say what you want about that RINO Nixon and Watergate, but no one died from that debacle.

Then the MORONIC sympathizing with the convicted murderer rapist in TX facing execution which the president is trying to stop because said individual wasnt apprised of his right to consult his consulate before he confessed to his atrocious crime.

Now theres the desperate twitter town hall where the communist usurper was called out on his "job creation" and in an open forum designed to answer questions had the gall to call the speaker's question "skewed." Oh I guess when your ineptitude is question thats skewed, LMAO.


You have no leg to stand on Wingo. I have fuel for months if not years. Your left with democratic talking points with no facts or reason to validate your assertions. It's just so easy to poke fun at this administration because they are either woefully inept or deliberate in their sabotage.


Mugz out.

[ewingxmanstarks]

Wingo, as a lawyer what did you think about the Casey Anthony case?

I personally feel there was enough circumstantial evidence to convict.

[mugzi]

Score one for justice and states rights. Sorry Mr.President that you couldnt stop the death of a rapist murderer.

Texas executes Mexican after court stay rejected

By MICHAEL GRACZYK - Associated Press | AP – 56 mins ago


This undated handout photo provided by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice shows …
HUNTSVILLE, Texas (AP) — A Mexican national was executed Thursday for the rape-slaying of a teenager after the U.S. Supreme Court turned down a White House-supported appeal to spare him in a death penalty case where Texas justice triumphed over international treaty concerns.
In his last minutes, Humberto Leal repeatedly said he was sorry and accepted responsibility.
"I have hurt a lot of people. ... I take full blame for everything. I am sorry for what I did," he said in the death chamber.
"One more thing," he said as the drugs began taking effect. Then he shouted twice, "Viva Mexico!"
"Ready warden," he said. "Let's get this show on the road."
The 38-year-old mechanic was pronounced dead 10 minutes after the lethal drugs began flowing into his arms.He was sentenced to death for the 1994 murder of 16-year-old Adria Sauceda, whose brutalized nude body was found hours after he left a San Antonio street party with her. She was bludgeoned with a chunk of asphalt.

Leal was just a toddler when he and his family moved to the U.S. from Monterrey, Mexico, but his citizenship became a key element of his attorneys' efforts to win a stay. They said police never told him following his arrest that he could seek legal assistance from the Mexican government under an international treaty.
Mexico, the Obama administration and others had asked the U.S. Supreme Court to delay Leal's execution so Congress could consider a law that would require court reviews in cases where condemned foreign nationals did not receive help from their consulates. They said the case could affect not only foreigners in the U.S. but Americans detained in other countries.
The court rejected the request 5-4. Its five more conservative justices doubted that executing Leal would cause grave international consequences, and doubted "that it is ever appropriate to stay a lower court judgment in light of unenacted legislation."
"Our task is to rule on what the law is, not what it might eventually be," the majority said.


The court's four liberal-leaning justices said they would have granted the stay.
Leal's attorney Sandra L. Babcock said that with consular help her client could have shown that he was not guilty. But she added, "This case was not just about one Mexican national on death row in Texas. The execution of Mr. Leal violates the United States' treaty commitments, threatens the nation's foreign policy interests, and undermines the safety of all Americans abroad."

Prosecutors, however, said Congress was unlikely to pass the legislation sought and that Leal's appeals were simply an attempt to evade justice for a gruesome murder.
Mexico's foreign ministry said in a statement that the government condemned Leal's execution and sent a note of protest to the U.S. State Department. The ministry also said Mexican ambassador Arturo Sarukhan attempted to contact Texas Gov. Rick Perry, who refused to speak on the phone.
The governor's office declined to comment on the execution Thursday.
Leal's argument that he should have received consular legal aid that could have helped his case was not new. Texas has executed other condemned foreign nationals who raised similar challenges, most recently in 2008.
Leal's appeals, however, focused on legislation introduced last month in the U.S. Senate by Vermont Democrat Patrick Leahy. Leahy's measure would bring the U.S. into compliance with the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations provision regarding the arrests of foreign nationals, and ensure court reviews for condemned foreigners to determine if a lack of consular help made a significant difference in the outcome of their cases.
"Americans detained overseas rely on their access to U.S. consulates every day," Leahy said after the Supreme Court decision was announced. "If we expect other countries to abide by the treaties they join, the United States must also honor its obligations."
The Obama administration took the unusual step of intervening in a state murder case last week when Solicitor General Donald Verrilli Jr. joined Leal's appeal, asking the high court to halt the execution and give Congress at least six months to consider Leahy's bill.
The Mexican government and other diplomats also contended that the execution should be delayed so Leal's case could be thoroughly reviewed. Some also warned his execution would violate the treaty provision and could endanger Americans in countries that deny them consular help.
Measures similar to Leahy's have failed at least twice in recent U.S. congressional sessions. The Texas Attorney General's office, opposing the appeals, pointed to those failures in its Supreme Court arguments and said "legislative relief was not likely to be forthcoming."
Stephen Hoffman, an assistant attorney general, also said evidence pointing to Leal's guilt is strong.
"At this point, it is clear that Leal is attempting to avoid execution by overwhelming the state and the courts with as many meritless lawsuits and motions as humanly possible," Hoffman said.
Prosecutors said Sauceda was drunk and high on cocaine the night she was killed, and that Leal offered to take her home. Witnesses said Leal drove off with her around 5 a.m. Some partygoers found her brutalized nude body later that morning and called police.
Sauceda's mother, Rachel Terry, told San Antonio television station KSAT her family already had suffered too long.


"A technicality doesn't give anyone a right to come to this country and rape, torture and murder anyone," she said.


After his execution, relatives of Leal who had gathered in Guadalupe, Mexico, burned a T-shirt with an image of the American flag in protest. Leal's uncle Alberto Leal criticized the U.S. justice system and the Mexican government and said, "There is a God who makes us all pay."


In 2005, President George W. Bush agreed with an International Court of Justice ruling that Leal and 50 other Mexican-born inmates nationwide should be entitled to new hearings in U.S. courts to determine if their consular rights were violated. The Supreme Court later overruled Bush.

[HarthorneWingo]

The quiet on this thread is deafening.

[ewingxmanstarks]

As is the quiet, when asking Obama what are the details in his plan to cut entitlements.

[HarthorneWingo]

As is the quiet, when asking Obama what are the details in his plan to cut entitlements.

Obama has used you guys like a hand tool.

[GONYK]

As is the quiet, when asking Obama what are the details in his plan to cut entitlements.

Correct me if I am wrong, but how can Obama provide details if there have been no serious "in good faith" negotiations because Republicans keep making revenue increases a non-starter?