For those comparing the Hawks to Dallas and there are plenty

[td00]

I know we look at our team and say changes need to be made, but there are some who think let's keep moving forward with our core. You see Dallas, and those from the '06 season that were still there last year: Cuban, Nelson, Nowitski, JT...I believe these are the leftover pieces that lost to Shaq and DWade.

Saying that, there is no reason for this management team here to believe the majority of the guys on this roster can be championship level competitive. No way...changes simply need to be made in many ways. And this is my view of wanting to have a championship contender here in Atlanta.

- You fill your weaknesses
- You use your strengths

We can stop right there and know we have more weaknesses than strenghts despite what the record shows.

Who are our defensive stoppers?
Who on this team really even relishes playing defense?

If there was a team in need of a new identity other than being a jump shooting, athletic, interchangeable team, its us.

Retain JT, Josh and Zaza as a good backup off the bench and you move the other pieces to get as much as you can. Can you do that without having to go back down into the valuable portion of the draft lottery. Probably not. I just think if you have 2 so-so all-stars, you see what someone will give you for them. There is no need to have 2 elite PFs, nor is there a need to have a guy who isn't seen as the clear cut team leader taking up more than 1/4 of your cap.

Oh yeah, the diff in us and Dallas? We put limitations on things......Cuban doesn't!

[NWO4Life]

Oh yeah, the diff in us and Dallas?

...It's called a billionaire owner...and the 25 extra million he's willing to spend a year over the Hawks.

[td00]

To add to that, the top 2 salary grabs from that '06 team:

Finley @ 15.937M and Van Horn @ 15.694M

Van Horn was not on next year's roster, and they paid 20 players each year looking for the right pieces. That note in itself tells me Sund doesn't have the forsight to keep searching for pieces to help this roster. The Hawks ended up paying 14 salaries.

Looking at the 2011 Dallas roster, they went through 16 salaries and won despite losing Caron Butler.
If we had lost our 3rd highest salary, Josh Smith, we wouldn't be thinking Finals, much less playoffs.

[td00]

Oh yeah, the diff in us and Dallas?

...It's called a billionaire owner...and the 25 extra million he's willing to spend a year over the Hawks.

Yeah, that too, along with incompetance in this city.

[Ruhiel]

I myself compared Hawks core players because of the wins total. Dirk can only play a certain amount of minutes and be effective.

Al can only play a certain amount. Joe as well.

Mathematically and talent wise there is a cap too how many games you can win. If you had Mike Jordans, Bill Russell, Wilt, Bird and Magic on 1 team they could all play 26 mpg and you'd win 60 games.

If you have Jamal and Joe on one team its not the same. Injecting Smith's defense and passing helps a bit. Horford's shooting and passing helps.
Going small to put Joe and Jamal on the court and have our bigs lead the team in assists hurts.
Jason Collins being 33yo and playing only 500 minutes a season hurts.

Going forward no one is saying this but obviously we're expecting big #s from Teague.

Like 36 mpg and 13% Wins every 48 minutes. He's 23yo did that in the playoffs and Zaza as a backup is 12% over the past 3 years.

Teague gets 16ppg and 6assists. Thats -
4 points per 9 minutes (explosive slasher, pull up jump shot, transition, Free Throws)
and 3 assists every 18 minutes (Give him big men who can shoot and block shots to start the break).

Very strong chance he supercedes this if he plays (AT POINT GUARD) with other EASY layup makers instead of overloading the team offense with jump shooters Joe, Hinrich and Marvin and sacrificing defense.

[Geaux_Hawks]

2 shooters and a big body and this team will be fine. I would love to see if NJ would trade Lopez, Petro, Morrow, and HOU '12 pick for Horford. Follow that up with Marvin & a future first for Austin Daye & Charlie Villunueva. Then move Zaza to Sacto for Tyler Honeycutt.

Finish it up with Pryzbilla and Brandon Wright(I just like this guy)

[parson]

DAL has the money to hire a really talented and versatile bench. There is almost no comparison between their bench and ours. We would play the Jamal card, Zaza would bang for 10-15 minutes and we'd be done.

[Ruhiel]

2 shooters and a big body and this team will be fine. I would love to see if NJ would trade Lopez, Petro, Morrow, and HOU '12 pick for Horford.

Lopez - why? When's the last time a score 1st center = championship?

Follow that up with Marvin & a future first for Austin Daye & Charlie Villunueva.

Villanueva career high. 11%

Williams career high. 14%

Then move Zaza to Sacto for Tyler Honeycutt. Finish it up with Pryzbilla and Brandon Wright(I just like this guy)

Pryzbilla is retiring in all likelihood.
For Horford we need a power forward and a center. Petro is not the 16ppg and defensive forward we need.

Villanueva is still stuck trying to figure out who he guards better: 3s or 4s. He makes Al Harrington's DEF #s look good.

What would this depth chart even look like?

[td00]

2 guys who I would like to see playing for this team next year:

Terrance Williams, who is getting the numbers in the NBDL to justify him getting a roster slot.

Anthony Randolph, who to me is more valuable than Brandon Wright. Randolph doesn't appear to have had a decent shot yet, but he finished very strong in the last week of the season.

[Geaux_Hawks]

2 guys who I would like to see playing for this team next year:

Terrance Williams, who is getting the numbers in the NBDL to justify him getting a roster slot.

Anthony Randolph, who to me is more valuable than Brandon Wright. Randolph doesn't appear to have had a decent shot yet, but he finished very strong in the last week of the season.

We seem to think that Golden State wasted 2 talented pf's. I like Randolph as well.

[HMFFL]

2 guys who I would like to see playing for this team next year:

Terrance Williams, who is getting the numbers in the NBDL to justify him getting a roster slot.

Anthony Randolph, who to me is more valuable than Brandon Wright. Randolph doesn't appear to have had a decent shot yet, but he finished very strong in the last week of the season.

Anthony Randolph being more valuable than Brandon Wright is a no brainer. I wanted us to pursue him when GS put him on the block. Low risk, high reward, even if it cost a first round pick.

[Brett]

2 guys who I would like to see playing for this team next year:

Terrance Williams, who is getting the numbers in the NBDL to justify him getting a roster slot.

Anthony Randolph, who to me is more valuable than Brandon Wright. Randolph doesn't appear to have had a decent shot yet, but he finished very strong in the last week of the season.

The Wolves are putting Randolph at the starting center spot next season.

[Dark_Magician]

I say hold on to Crawford and see if Houston will give up Hasheem Thabeet, slide Smith over to the small forward spot and move Williams to the bench with Crawford and Zaza

[Geaux_Hawks]

I say hold on to Crawford and see if Houston will give up Hasheem Thabeet, slide Smith over to the small forward spot and move Williams to the bench with Crawford and Zaza

If a S&T is possible, why not see what team wants Crawford(Indy, NJ, Utah & OKC maybe, Chicago). I'm going to assume it's NJ and we get the Houston pick. Then trade Marvin to Houston for Jordan Hill, Thabeet, & Chandler Parsons(Think this kid will be a Landry Fields glue guy). At least then, we get something out of Crawford, we get Thabeet like you want, and add some depth.

[Ruhiel]

I don't understand why we get 3 assets for Marvin Williams who has played himself/ been utilized into what amounts to a bad contract, all 3 of those assets being over 6'10.
sf, pf, c For a bad contract.

Rockets tried to trade Hill (6'10) and Hasheem (7'0) straight up for Biedrins (6'11).

Marvin Williams is not worth multiple F/C's even if he's expiring.

Thabeet, Horford, Smith has no spacing and no usage the highest volume shot creator is Smith here.

If the goal is to make Joe Johnson a dangerous secondary/third option, Thabeet and Horford are not going to get it done.

[Geaux_Hawks]

Say what you want to say, but Marvin is still an effective scorer granted he gets touches and is an above average defender. "Real GM" will refer to him as an albatross or bad contract, but actual GM's will probably see him as a useful role player, just overpaid which is the only reason he didn't get traded at the deadline. It would be completely different had this been Outlaw.

Then you act like the Rockets being denied of Biedrins showed how much value Thabeet and Hill have just because they offered them for Beans. If anything, it shows how less valued the pair or individual is since they got denied. I'm not trying to make them seem like garbage players(though Thabeet kind of is until he develops), but they aren't the most coveted individuals, just like Marvin isn't either. I honestly could see the Rockets doing Marvin for Hill & Parsons, but would need a filler(enter Thabeet)

I like How can you praise Thabeet to be such a great investment, but then bash him as if he wouldn't provide much of a difference unless we got rid of Horford and brought in Montiejunas..Like seriously, what does usage have to do with a front court? Unless you are trying to refer to not having a low post, "go-to" option. No wonder people take you as a joke when you post on other boards.

[Ruhiel]

Say what you want to say, but Marvin is still an effective scorer granted he gets touches and is an above average defender.

Kyle Lowry, Kevin Martin, Chase Budinger... Marvin wont get any touches.
post the trade in the Trades and Transactions board.

Then you act like the Rockets being denied of Biedrins showed how much value Thabeet and Hill have just because they offered them for Beans. If anything, it shows how less valued the pair or individual is since they got denied. I'm not trying to make them seem like garbage players(though Thabeet kind of is until he develops), but they aren't the most coveted individuals, just like Marvin isn't either. I honestly could see the Rockets doing Marvin for Hill & Parsons, but would need a filler(enter Thabeet)

Unless the

Pistons sign-n-trade Prince for Thabeet and a 2012 snd rounder? Deal?

No thanks. We need to give T-Will and Marcus Morris a chance to show their skills at SF.

Chase Budinger also scored 35 points in the last game of the season so he deserves a chance to keep the starting SF job. (in the 22 games that Chase started his stats were 13.9 ppg, 3.9rpg and 2.6 apg)

Big men (rebounds) for big men (rebounds). marvin is a wing scorer and they have many wings.
Unless the Rockets or any team see a superstar in Marvin, 3 players for Marvin is not going down.

I like How can you praise Thabeet to be such a great investment, but then bash him as if he wouldn't provide much of a difference unless we got rid of Horford and brought in Montiejunas.Like seriously, what does usage have to do with a front court? Unless you are trying to refer to not having a low post, "go-to" option.

ding. ding. ding. That is exactly what the front court is supposed to do.

No wonder people take you as a joke when you post on other boards.

lol, post the trade and report back or maybe I should post it because thats what that trade is. A joke.
...........
edit:

Pistons sign-n-trade Prince for Thabeet and a 2012 snd rounder? Deal?

No thanks. We need to give T-Will and Marcus Morris a chance to show their skills at SF.

Chase Budinger also scored 35 points in the last game of the season so he deserves a chance to keep the starting SF job. (in the 22 games that Chase started his stats were 13.9 ppg, 3.9rpg and 2.6 apg)

[Geaux_Hawks]

Lowry of course handles the ball, Kevin Martin is a highly efficient scorer that doesn't need 20 shots, and Budinger really doesn't create with the ball. He is more of a spot up shooter.

Like I stated, "Real GM" will shoot it down because they think too highly of salary, which factors in player evaluation.

Rebounds for Rebounds is "your" rule. The point of moving Marvin to Houston would be to get rid of some of those wings. Morris is a 3/4 tweener more useful as a 4. Budinger is a spot shooter, who can run, but better off the bench since he is undersized. I'd take Marvin over Terrance Williams anyday.

Be more specific instead. Using the word "Usage" doesn't really specify you meaning "go-to guy".

[Ruhiel]

"Say what you want to say, but Marvin is still an effective scorer granted he gets touches and is an above average defender.

I'm always saying this. I even made an entire post about how Marvin can be a better scorer if we go bigger so he is guarded by SGs. You know this.

What I said in my last post.

I don't understand why we get 3 assets for Marvin Williams who has played himself/ been utilized into what amounts to a bad contract, all 3 of those assets being over 6'10.
sf, pf, c For a bad contract.
Rockets tried to trade Hill (6'10) and Hasheem (7'0) straight up for Biedrins (6'11).
Marvin Williams (6'8) is not worth multiple F/C's even if he's expiring.

I was very careful not to say anything negative about Marvin.
Williams value as it stands is what it is, a bad contract.

"Real GM" will refer to him as an albatross or bad contract, but actual GM's will probably see him as a useful role player, just overpaid which is the only reason he didn't get traded at the deadline. It would be completely different had this been Outlaw."

Translation: "Real GM" will refer to him as an albatross or bad contract, but actual GM's will probably see him as an overpaid role player which is the reason he doesn't/wasn't/can't get traded for multiple useful role players (ie Hill, Parsons, Thabeet) .

Like I stated, "Real GM" will shoot it down because they think too highly of salary, which factors in player evaluation.

and yet actual GMs don't think highly of salary? Then why can't we trade Marvin for cap salary?
Gerald Wallace for Pryzbilla?
Rashard for Arenas?

Rebounds for Rebounds is "your" rule. The point of moving Marvin to Houston would be to get rid of some of those wings. Morris is a 3/4 tweener more useful as a 4. Budinger is a spot shooter, who can run, but better off the bench since he is undersized. I'd take Marvin over Terrance Williams anyday.

I don't understand this rationale. Marvin is a 6'8 useful SF role player. There are quite a few around the league.
big men who can defend not so much.

Parsons> Marvin imo, but lets see...

[Ruhiel]

So the point is to let there wing (T.Williams) walk which they could do in 2 years.
Budinger is undersized and T.Williams expendable/tradeable so they need an upgrade in SF size, so they trade the 6'10 Parsons along with a PF/C and a 7'3 center.

Is that correct?