Starting Frontcourt/Foundation Survey: "sf'', "pf","c"?

[Ruhiel]

1- who is our competition (for the NBA title)? East / West
2- what is the ideal frontcourt/foundation sf,pf,c situation to compete? (with current team/trade)
3- Where do our sf, pf, c rank to you amongst NBA elites/ our competition? (current/trade)
4- Which Frontcourt/Foundation do our SF, PF, C currently resemble/ can we resemble?
...
edit: Ok, what I'm going to do is compile the list of championship frontcourts (starters) and try to post them.

Some Title teams Starting sf, pf,c:
LAL: '85, '87+'88, '00+'01+'02,'09(Ariza), '10(Artest)
BOS: '84,'86,'08
CHI: 91,92,93 (pre Rodman's contract acquisition)
DAL: '11
DET: '89. '90. '04
HOU: 94 (pre-Clyde)
MIA: '06
SAS: '03,'05,'07
ATL; Champion Frontcourts (revised).ppt http://www.mediafire.com/?s4zr9rfrm7c2dcl
..................................
Some Non-Title teams Starting sf, pf,c:
PHI: '85, '86 {Dr. J, Malone, Barkley}
PHO: 06, 07 starting Frontcourts
SAS: 08 WCSF
LAL: '08 Finals Team
ATL: '08,'10, '11
edit: cut out ORL: '10 Finals Team in summary Dwight put up historical and the other 2 shot the ball.smGdh
ATL; RunnerUps.ppt http://www.mediafire.com/?q9cu34iqlakth3o
...................................
ATL; Current Competition.ppt http://www.mediafire.com/?k3x5xtfpuwbkok1
MIA,CHI - East o.O
OKC, MEM, DAL, LAL, LAC - West

Things That'll Be listed:
*- Offensive Rebound% *- Defensive Rebound% *- Total Rebound% *- Block%
*- True Shooting % *- Possession Usage Rate%
*- Assist % *- Turnover% *- Steal%
:::::::::::::::::::::
ATL; Current Competition.ppt http://www.mediafire.com/?k3x5xtfpuwbkok1
ATL; RunnerUps.ppt http://www.mediafire.com/?q9cu34iqlakth3o
ATL; Champion Frontcourts (revised).ppt http://www.mediafire.com/?s4zr9rfrm7c2dcl

You guys can compare and make suggestions but to me formula seems to be: Offensive Rebounding + Capable Volume Shooters and Backups.

[Geaux_Hawks]

1-Thunder, Bulls,Memphis, Miami, Dallas

2-Any center brought in that doesn't cost us Horford or Smith would be

SF-Smith
PF-Horford
C -Two of (Bargnani, Robin Lopez, Kosta Koufos, Darko, Aaron Gray or Cole Aldrich)

We won't get a teams starting center without giving up Horford or Smith, so I would rather take a young guy and develop himor somebody else's trash. Never know if somebody emerges like Marc Gasol or Asik. If Horford or Smith is moved then it depends on the return and if we get a center back.

3 & 4 are unknown

[Ruhiel]

1- I like that response ^.^
Not a big believer in OKC until Ibaka shows he can become a confident, consistent floor spacer
Please, Keep em coming guys.

[brigadierjerry]

Good survey, i will answer these later.

[ATL Boy]

1. MIA, OKC, MEM, CHI, DAL, LAL, and in a few years the clippers.
2. I want to get a center out of free agency (best case scenario: Dalembert, Chandler), or a young center like Geaux said, ideally I would trade Marvin for Hunnicut but that might just be a pipe dream.
SF-Smoove
PF-Horford
C-Hunnicut
3. Our SF (Josh) would rank pretty well anong the lines of NBA SF's but wouldn't be able to stack up to the likes of Durant, and Lebron (our competition). Our PF (AL) would be amongst the cream of the crop when it comes to our competition. He can match Bosh, he isn't as good as Gasol but because of the age factor that'll change, same with Zbo, he's no Dirk, and I would put him even with Blake Griffin (he may be fun to watch but numbers wise he and Al are pretty even. Our C (Hunnicut) would be developing and is in the back seat when it comes to our competition.
4. Get back to me on that one.

[Ruhiel]

1. MIA, OKC, MEM, CHI, DAL, LAL, and in a few years the clippers.
2. I want to get a center out of free agency (best case scenario: Dalembert, Chandler), or a young center like Geaux said, ideally I would trade Marvin for Hunnicut but that might just be a pipe dream.
SF-Smoove
PF-Horford
C-Hunnicut
3. Our SF (Josh) would rank pretty well anong the lines of NBA SF's but wouldn't be able to stack up to the likes of Durant, and Lebron (our competition). Our PF (AL) would be amongst the cream of the crop when it comes to our competition. He can match Bosh, he isn't as good as Gasol but because of the age factor that'll change, same with Zbo, he's no Dirk, and I would put him even with Blake Griffin (he may be fun to watch but numbers wise he and Al are pretty even. Our C (Hunnicut) would be developing and is in the back seat when it comes to our competition.
4. Get back to me on that one.

Blake is a 21yo rookie played 37mpg and has quite a bit more untapped scoring ability (free throws for example) but I digress..
C- who is Hunnicut?

[azuresou1]

1. CHI, MIA, LAL, MEM, OKC, LAC, NYK if they get a C with the MLE
2. Ideally, Keith Benson puts on 60 lbs of muscle. In the probable event that it doesn't happen...

- Toss an MLE at Oden.
- S&T Jamal Crawford for Asik, Brewer, a 2nd
- Trade Marvin, Zaza, a 2nd for A. Randolph, M. Webster

SF - Josh Smith, M. Webster
PF - Al Horford, A. Randolph
C - Greg Oden, Omer Asik, Keith Benson

3. IF Greg Oden stays healthy, I think we would jump to the top of the NBA in terms of frontcourt talent and depth. No team, not even LA, would be able to put out a quality frontcourt for all 48 minutes that we could.

4. Currently, with Marvin at the 3, we don't really resemble any team. With my revised lineup, we would resemble the recent Lakers when they go big with worse offense and spacing but better defense.

[Ruhiel]

Greg Oden and his uneven legs are currently valued at 8.8 million.
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... Oden_Mills

[ATL Boy]

1. MIA, OKC, MEM, CHI, DAL, LAL, and in a few years the clippers.
2. I want to get a center out of free agency (best case scenario: Dalembert, Chandler), or a young center like Geaux said, ideally I would trade Marvin for Hunnicut but that might just be a pipe dream.
SF-Smoove
PF-Horford
C-Hunnicut
3. Our SF (Josh) would rank pretty well anong the lines of NBA SF's but wouldn't be able to stack up to the likes of Durant, and Lebron (our competition). Our PF (AL) would be amongst the cream of the crop when it comes to our competition. He can match Bosh, he isn't as good as Gasol but because of the age factor that'll change, same with Zbo, he's no Dirk, and I would put him even with Blake Griffin (he may be fun to watch but numbers wise he and Al are pretty even. Our C (Hunnicut) would be developing and is in the back seat when it comes to our competition.
4. Get back to me on that one.

Blake is a 21yo rookie played 37mpg and has quite a bit more untapped scoring ability (free throws for example) but I digress..
C- who is Hunnicut?

A random young name.

[azuresou1]

Greg Oden and his uneven legs are currently valued at 8.8 million.
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/21 ... Oden_Mills

Son of a...

Well, even without him, I think a Smith/Horford/Asik starting lineup with Webster/Randolph/Benson splitting minutes is still quality, although no longer best in the league.

[theatlfan]

1- who is our competition (for the NBA title)? East / West

East: MIA and CHI. ORL and BOS have a short window and WASH and NJN are at least a year away.
West: LAL, DAL, OKC, DEN. SAS have a short window while the only teams I could see rising are MIN and UTH, but I doubt either do quickly - if at all.

2- what is the ideal frontcourt/foundation sf,pf,c situation to compete? (with current team/trade)

I'd think we want to get mismatches for Smoove & Horford. Getting role players for SF and C so that Smoove & Horford can move from C/PF to PF/SF would be the best way for us to maximize our abilities to find these matchups. Without regards to realistic trade scenarios or financial implications, I'd say landing B Haywood from DAL and signing someone like Reggie Williams or T Prince would give us the appropriate versatility needed to deploy a good front court at all times:
SF: Smoove / R Williams
PF: Horford / Smoove
C: Haywood / Horford / Zaza
or start Prince and put Haywood in as backup.

3- Where do our sf, pf, c rank to you amongst NBA elites/ our competition? (current/trade)

Middling in both. We're versatile, but not overly so. Under Sund, we'll always be a team where the front court takes the lead from the back court.

4- Which Frontcourt/Foundation do our SF, PF, C currently resemble/ can we resemble?

Honestly, my model would follow something akin to the mid-80's 76'ers. Horford would play the Moses Malone role of PF forced to play C; Smoove would play the role of Charles Barkley as the talented SF sized PF. We would still need to acquire the role players like C Clemon Johnson and SF Bobby Jones could be deployed to find the matchups for Barkley and Malone to thrive. There are some issues with the comp - like the fact that Dr J was deployed as a SF more than an SG - but he was toward the end of his career and PHI would look to the future pairing of Malone and Barkley. The obvious issue here is that PHI never won the title with the pairing and eventually traded Malone along with 3 1st round picks (Terry Catledge finished his rookie year, but was a 1st rounder the year before) for a couple of injury prone guys who they thought would fit better alongside Barkley - true C Jeff Ruland and versatile forward Cliff Robinson. Never panned out for PHI with Ruland only playing 5 games while Robinson played 3 injury riddled years. Maybe we should take that as a sign...

[Superiorblogman]

Josh Smith SF
Al Horford PF
Keith Benson C if he is something like a Camby clone

Or

Josh Smith SF
Al Horford PF
Draft Festus Ezeli or Lucas Nogueira next draft

Or

Josh Smith SF
Al Horford PF
Trade Marvin and Zaza for Robin Lopez and Josh Childress Lopez has a lot more upside than Zaza and J Chillz could play some backup SG and SF and give you that slasher you need.

[Ruhiel]

Ok, what I'm going to do is compile the list of championship frontcourts (starters) and try to post them.

Some Title teams Starting sf, pf,c:
LAL: 87+88, 00+01+02,'10
BOS: 86, 08
DAL: '11
DET: 04
HOU: 94 (pre-Clyde)
SAS: 03,05,07

Some Non-Title teams Starting sf, pf,c:
ATL: '08,'10, '11
LAL: '08 Finals Team
ORL: '10 Finals Team
PHO: WCF Team
SAS: 08 WCSF
PHI: '85, '86 {Dr. J, Malone, Barkley}

Current Competition:
MIA,CHI - East o.O
OKC, MEM, DAL, LAL, LAC - West

Things That'll Be listed:
*- Offensive Rebound% *- Defensive Rebound% *- Total Rebound% *- Block%
*- True Shooting % *- Possession Usage Rate%
*- Assist % *- Turnover%

[theatlfan]

Ok, what I'm going to do is compile the list of championship frontcourts (starters) and try to post them.

Some Title teams Starting sf, pf,c:
LAL: 87+88, 00+01+02,'10
BOS: 86, 08
DAL: '11
DET: 04
HOU: 94 (pre-Clyde)
SAS: 03,05,07

Some Non-Title teams Starting sf, pf,c:
ATL: '08,'10, '11
LAL: '08 Finals Team
ORL: '10 Finals Team
PHO: WCF Team
SAS: 08 WCSF
PHI: '85, '86 {Dr. J, Malone, Barkley}

Current Competition:
MIA,CHI - East o.O
OKC, MEM, DAL, LAL, LAC - West

Things That'll Be listed:
*- Offensive Rebound% *- Defensive Rebound% *- Total Rebound% *- Block%
*- True Shooting % *- Possession Usage Rate%
*- Assist % *- Turnover%

Ambitious, I'd definitely like to see it though.

There is a problem with this though - who is running the show? A Shaq-led team would prolly have a better statistical front court then the Billups-led Pistons. Not saying I know how to cover this, but it is there...

[Ruhiel]

Yes, I thought of this too. Like the Lakers in the 80s. Kareem+ Worthy+ Green was not a "dominant" rebounder but they didnt need to worry about rebounding as much because their shooting % were thru the roof with Magic's high Assist% running the show.

The problem with having a "superstar" led team ie Dwight Howard is that you'll also have a "Hedo Turkoglu/Rashard Lewis" in there providing little to no defensive stops or keeping possessions alive .

A superstar contract like Shaq means you'll have holes elsewhere (ie aging AC Green as your 2nd best Defensive rebounder).

I streamlined it to only include starters but there are 6th men who are just as good as starters in some areas.
For example Pau Gasol was just as likely to grab a rebound as Odom in 2010. And the slower Bynum is less likely to grab a board than Zaza Pachulia

For the most part most current teams dont have as good a 2-way backup center as Zaza, Dallas included.

So far this is the most remarkable thing about this "research" is the Defensive and Total Rebounding.

[Ruhiel]

I can only do so many but...
any1 have a runnerup frontcourt/team that'd they'd like looking up

also this is gonna be in "Compatability mode" 97-2003 Microsoft Powerpoint...

[Ruhiel]

didnt get to finish "det 1990"

might have some mistakes, I was in a rush! ill try to do others later
edit: revising some mistakes
edit: CHAMPSfrontcourt.ppt
http://www.mediafire.com/?q3a2rrmobgwi2g3
;;;;;;;;;
Gold (Totals):
USG%= 60% or above, team is heavily frontcourt oriented
TS%= 60% or above, frontcourt is highly accurate
ORB%= 25% or above, Possessions result in Second Chances
DRB%= 60% or above, helps Indicates Defensive Stops
DRB%= 42% or above, helps Indicates Total Rebounding Ability
BLK%= 10% or above, this frontcourt rejects FGA at a high rate
TS%= 1.800 or above, rare efficiency from multiple players
USG%= 60% or above, these players are great possession finishers
AST%= 40% or above, rarely seen ability to facilitate other players
TOV%= 40% or below, rare ability to take care of ball
STL%= 5% or above, ball thief amongst us

[Geaux_Hawks]

My first post, I didn't really go into depth about an ideal front-court. This time I will.

Starting with what we already have, and trying to stay realistically as possible, I think we should keep Horford and Smith. The two of them together is a great duo. Al really compliments Josh, when Josh is dominating the paint offensively.

Ideally, we need to slide both of them over a position so they can exploit better match-ups on offense. With that said, it's not like we can go out and spend money on a legit center. So, we should look to grab a young guy, who has underachieved, but has talent.

My first option would be Kosta Koufos. Koufos is a very talented guy with great hands & touch and actually has a back to the basket game, ability to create on his own, good range, and potential to be a defensive presence. He just needs actual game experience. Maybe we can obtain him by trading Marvin to LAC & a future 2nd to Denver & they send Foye to Denver,

I think Brandan Wright is still talented, and would be a great addition to our front-court. We lack depth at the 4 anyway. Chandler Parsons reminds me of a bigger Landry Fields. I would love to move Zaza to Houston for Chandler Parson & that Minnesota 2nd in 2012. Then sign Aaron Gray.

A front-court of:

SF- Josh[32]/Parsons[20]
PF- Horford[31/Wright[18]/Rolle
C - Koufos[25]/Gray[18]/Benson

Josh and Horford can still play the 4 and 5 in favorable match-ups or crutch time, depending on how Drew wants to play and they no longer have to play 35-40 minutes on a nightly basis. I think a quality platoon of centers is all we need anyway to be successful.

[Ruhiel]

looking at the "CHAMPSfrontcourt" with the experienced Zaza in and Josh at the 3... Atlanta has the highest Defensive Rebounding Percentage of any team on the championship list.

Zaza is a borderline starter coming off the bench and should be untouchable.
Williams is nothing spectacular...unless you shift his rebounding and Shooting to the backcourt spot.

Smith is putting up great steals #s and his DEF rebounds parallelled Horford's. His True Shooting % and Usage of possessions was at a high but he would still better be utilized ala Marion/James Worthy.
Near single digit assists. More SF run outs and Isos.

His rebounding and USG #s are mediocre for a PF in championship context but he is an upgrade from nearly every small forward on the champ list... San Antonio, Houston, Detroit 91.

Smith at SF? now THAT would be a championship move.
Runnerups: http://www.mediafire.com/?33yyqf18uqttmhk

Competition to come up later, Hopefully Joe recovers but Zaza and Marvin are untouchable backups!

[johnny878]

1. MIA, OKC, MEM, CHI, DAL, LAL, and in a few years the clippers.
2. I want to get a center out of free agency (best case scenario: Dalembert, Chandler), or a young center like Geaux said, ideally I would trade Marvin for Hunnicut but that might just be a pipe dream.
SF-Smoove
PF-Horford
C-Hunnicut
3. Our SF (Josh) would rank pretty well anong the lines of NBA SF's but wouldn't be able to stack up to the likes of Durant, and Lebron (our competition). Our PF (AL) would be amongst the cream of the crop when it comes to our competition. He can match Bosh, he isn't as good as Gasol but because of the age factor that'll change, same with Zbo, he's no Dirk, and I would put him even with Blake Griffin (he may be fun to watch but numbers wise he and Al are pretty even. Our C (Hunnicut) would be developing and is in the back seat when it comes to our competition.
4. Get back to me on that one.

please, anyone who watched Al in the playoffs knows blake is twice the player and man. Guy attacks that basket hard both scoring and rebounding. Al shys away from physical play and sticks to his 15 foot jump shots.