Tyrus Thomas worth?

Pacerlive · Post #1 » by **Pacerlive** » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:27 pm

Pacer fan here and I was wondering what the pros and cons are with Tyrus Thomas. I am not sure if a deal could be made between the Pacers and the Bobcats but from what I have seen Thomas brings some skills that the Pacers defiantly need.

The positives in doing a deal is that salaries don't have to match and it could be a way to free up some cash for other needs.

captaincrunk · Post #2 » by **captaincrunk** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:54 am

Pacerlive wrote:Pacer fan here and I was wondering what the pros and cons are with Tyrus Thomas. I am not sure if a deal could be made between the Pacers and the Bobcats but from what I have seen Thomas brings some skills that the Pacers defiantly need.

The positives in doing a deal is that salaries don't have to match and it could be a way to free up some cash for other needs.

He'd be a bad fit I think, and I'm a fan of both teams.

Post #3 » by **fatlever** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:10 am

thomas for hibbert

Post #4 » by **BigSlam** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:14 am

fatlever wrote:thomas for hibbert

Jaruff · Post #5 » by **Jaruff** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:17 am

1. Something that involved Granger. Don't know how that would be pulled off.
2. Something involving Hansbrough. Also don't know how that would be pulled off.
3. Salary cap dump (something like Tyrus + Diop for picks + expiring salary).

captaincrunk · Post #6 » by **captaincrunk** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:00 am

He would definitely start at the Pacers, but they need someone who is more of a rebounder. Tyrus is a fine rebounder, but they'd be better off investing in an even better one since Hibbert isn't that much of one for his size. And Tyrus doesn't spend enough time on the block to take advantage of Hibbert's shooting. In fact Tyrus has about the same range, maybe a little deeper. He's not the toughness in the middle though. He's a good defender, blocks and steals, but isn't the best post man.

captaincrunk · Post #7 » by **captaincrunk** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:13 am

hmm... Tyrus and Kemba for the Granger? That's not too uneven, but Kemba is unnecessary on their team with Collison and Hill. I've no interest in hansborough by the way. Putting him and Henderson in a locker room might be bad haha.

Indy should be more interested in Boris Diaw, actually. He's got some toughness in the post, can play fine on the block and imagine the ball movement on this lineup

Collison
Hill
George/Granger (whoever you like passing)
Diaw
Hibbert.

Pacerlive · Post #8 » by **Pacerlive** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:22 pm

Jaruff wrote:1. Something that involved Granger. Don't know how that would be pulled off.
2. Something involving Hansbrough. Also don't know how that would be pulled off.
3. Salary cap dump (something like Tyrus + Diop for picks + expiring salary).

Obviously Bird isn't trading Hibbert or Granger but Hans and/or picks could be done.

Diop is a cap killer but Bird may be willing to take that nasty contract for Tyrus.

Captaincrunk,
The point of tyrus is to add some weak side help and shot blocking ability. Rebounding is a an issue but not the biggest one overall. How is he with the pick and pop?

Kembastockton · Post #9 » by **Kembastockton** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:23 pm

captaincrunk wrote:hmm... Tyrus and Kemba for the Granger? That's not too uneven, but Kemba is unnecessary on their team with Collison and Hill. I've no interest in hansborough by the way. Putting him and Henderson in a locker room might be bad haha.

Indy should be more interested in Boris Diaw, actually. He's got some toughness in the post, can play fine on the block and imagine the ball movement on this lineup

Collison
Hill
George/Granger (whoever you like passing)
Diaw
Hibbert.

Crunk I actually agree with you this time. I like Diaw to Indiana also. If Indiana would add a pick I would be all over this one.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

SWedd523 · Post #10 » by **SWedd523** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 5:42 pm

All you posted was the trade machine link.

Battery · Post #11 » by **Battery** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:39 pm

captaincrunk wrote:hmm... Tyrus and Kemba for the Granger? That's not too uneven, but Kemba is unnecessary on their team with Collison and Hill.

Kemba hasn't even stepped onto an NBA court and you already want to trade him away??? Thats not happening unless it was in a package for a DIFFERENCE MAKER. Why would you even propose such a deal? MJ would never make a move like that unless Granger was the missing piece to an already very good team. Trades like that are what set back franchises who are capped out and trying to rebuild because you're killing all of your future flexibility if the high salaried player you bring in does not fit into your team. When you have a young player like Kemba when you're rebuilding you can groom that player to fit the style of team that you want to build. Then once you have a foundation of good homegrown youngins then you go out and fill in the missing pieces through FA or through trades.

Now if Granger was Deron Williams or Carmelo Anthony then you make the deal and build around them. But Granger? No, he's not in their league and he doesn't draw fans to an arena. I like Granger but we're just not in a position to trade for him now. Now if they want to do Granger for TT straight up then obviously you make the deal but thats not happening.

Also, I have no desire to sit in the arena and watch Granger lead us to 35-40 wins for the next 3 seasons, however, I am soooo excited to see Kemba Walker develop as a point guard and then pair him with another lottery pick next summer. Patience!

captaincrunk · Post #12 » by **captaincrunk** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 9:47 pm

Battery wrote:
captaincrunk wrote:hmm... Tyrus and Kemba for the Granger? That's not too uneven, but Kemba is unnecessary on their team with Collison and Hill.

Kemba hasn't even stepped onto an NBA court and you already want to trade him away???

You could say that about any draft pick traded before the draft too.

Battery wrote:Thats not happening unless it was in a package for a DIFFERENCE MAKER. Why would you even propose such a deal? MJ would never make a move like that unless Granger was the missing piece to an already very good team. Trades like that are what set back franchises who are capped out and trying to rebuild because you're killing all of your future flexibility if the high salaried player you bring in does not fit into your team. When you have a young player like Kemba when you're rebuilding you can groom that player to fit the style of team that you want to build. Then once you have a foundation of good homegrown youngins then you go out and fill in the missing pieces through FA or through trades.

Granger is still youngish as well. Younger than Crash by a year or two, right? We know what he provides, which is solid 2nd offensive weapon with good (but not great) defense. From a value standpoint, I think we'd win in net gains though we might not be able to apply them to our team as well as they could. It's speculation. No need to get so worked up.

At any rate, I see your point but I don't think Kemba will turn out to be as good as Granger is right now and will be for some time, but thought maybe the Pacers would be willing to take the gamble instead.

Pacerlive wrote:Captaincrunk,
The point of tyrus is to add some weak side help and shot blocking ability. Rebounding is a an issue but not the biggest one overall. How is he with the pick and pop?

He's not bad at it, actually. He prefers to put the ball on the floor before he shoots, isn't the best spot up shooter.

Kembastockton · Post #13 » by **Kembastockton** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:11 pm

I am sorry about the link. The trade I created was Boris, DJ, and Pryzbylla for Grainger and TJ Ford.

I know that we are rebuilding, but you have to remember Grainger is better than any three we would get in the draft next summer. Therefore aquiring him, and falling a few spots back in the draft is not a loss.

SWedd523 · Post #14 » by **SWedd523** » Wed Jul 20, 2011 11:33 pm

He's also a 28 year old due nearly $40 million over the next 3 years while Kyrie Irving will make about half that over the course of his rookie deal. Is a 28 year old Granger (and his contract) more valuable to a rebuild than Barnes, Beal, Thomas, Miller on a rookie deal?

No

captaincrunk · Post #15 » by **captaincrunk** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:33 am

SWEDD523 wrote:He's also a 28 year old due nearly $40 million over the next 3 years while Kyrie Irving will make about half that over the course of his rookie deal. Is a 28 year old Granger (and his contract) more valuable to a rebuild than Barnes, Beal, Thomas, Miller on a rookie deal?

No

We could wait until the deadline. There'd be about 3 games left after that :lol:

Snidely FC · Post #16 » by **Snidely FC** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:50 pm

The guy in an IND uni I'd love to have on the 'Cats is Paul George.

Not sure I would trade TT anyway, cuz I want to see opposing teams try to score with him and BB playing alongside each other, but if trading with Indy to rid us of TT's contract, I would want Paul George + Josh McBob.

Pacerlive · Post #17 » by **Pacerlive** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:01 pm

captaincrunk wrote:[t any rate, I see your point but I don't think Kemba will turn out to be as good as Granger is right now and will be for some time, but thought maybe the Pacers would be willing to take the gamble instead.
Pacerlive wrote:Captaincrunk,
The point of tyrus is to add some weak side help and shot blocking ability. Rebounding is a an issue but not the biggest one overall. How is he with the pick and pop?

He's not bad at it, actually. He prefers to put the ball on the floor before he shoots, isn't the best spot up shooter.

Its sort of a moot point because Granger is pretty much untouchable as long as Bird is in charge. From the Bobcats point of view I think the contracts are killing you like they were killing the Pacers last 3 years.

Tyrus is the only guy I would be interested on the Bobcats.

Pacerlive · Post #18 » by **Pacerlive** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:03 pm

Snidely FC wrote:The guy in an IND uni I'd love to have on the 'Cats is Paul George.

Not sure I would trade TT anyway, cuz I want to see opposing teams try to score with him and BB playing alongside each other, but if trading with Indy to rid us of TT's contract, I would want Paul George + Josh McBob.

Most Pacer fans see the future of the Pacers tied up into Paul George. THey hope he's Grangers replacement and future leader of the team. NOt sure if thats reasonable but Bird has made him untouchable.

captaincrunk · Post #19 » by **captaincrunk** » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:45 pm

Pacerlive wrote:
captaincrunk wrote:[t any rate, I see your point but I don't think Kemba will turn out to be as good as Granger is right now and will be for some time, but thought maybe the Pacers would be willing to take the gamble instead.
Pacerlive wrote:Captaincrunk,
The point of tyrus is to add some weak side help and shot blocking ability. Rebounding is a an issue but not the biggest one overall. How is he with the pick and pop?

He's not bad at it, actually. He prefers to put the ball on the floor before he shoots, isn't the best spot up shooter.

Its sort of a moot point because Granger is pretty much untouchable as long as Bird is in charge. From the Bobcats point of view I think the contracts are killing you like they were killing the Pacers last 3 years.

Tyrus is the only guy I would be interested on the Bobcats.

The only contracts killing us belong to maggette and Diop.

Kembastockton · Post #20 » by **Kembastockton** » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:31 pm

SWEDD523 wrote:He's also a 28 year old due nearly $40 million over the next 3 years while Kyrie Irving will make about half that over the course of his rookie deal. Is a 28 year old Granger (and his contract) more valuable to a rebuild than Barnes, Beal, Thomas, Miller on a rookie deal?

No

So you honestly believe that we will be worse than the Kings, Raptors, wizards, Nets, Cavaliers, Pistons, and sixers next year. Come back to reality. The fact is we don't know where we will be picking next year. You guys are assuming that because we traded Jack we will automatically fall to the basement. In case you guys don't remember the stretch run last season. The team tended to play better without Jack.

I tend to believe trading Jack was more about the extra lottery pick than tanking. We may possibly loose 10 more games next season due to the loss of Jack, but I really doubt it. Even if we did based on this year's standings we would have been tied for only the 5th worse record. More likely we loose 5 more, which based on this year's standings would only move us up one spot.

Grainger is 28, but players these days are playing into their late 30's. Serious decline usually about 33. If we haven't made any noise in five more years it will be time to rethink anyway. Kemba, Hendo, Grainger, TT, and BB would be a heck of nucelus to build around. Make a run at Dwight, and a few nice roll players, and this team could be in position to make a lot of noise quickly. Dallas, LA and Boston are old. Atlanta and Orlando are likely to be broken up.

I would personally rather trade for a reasonably young vet that we know can score, and be in the position to make another trade than be depending on a top three pick that we may never see.