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johnwall wrote:yea, a whopping 1 point and 1 rebound more yet he plays 5 more mpgikkoikki wrote:Noah vs Chandler....
Noah averages more blocks, more assists, more points, more rebounds, he shoots a better FT%, he averages less turnovers...
doctorfunk wrote:grimballer wrote:johnwall wrote:
neither of those guys are centers
while noah, horford n duncan are?
gotta define what is c for u.
center; on defense guy playing in the middle, anchoring the defense
offense; guy playing in the post or closest to the basket
classical centers examples; Shaq, Yao, Kareem, Tyson Chandler, Mutombo
Noah meets all these criteria, there's no case for Noah for being a PF.
Duncan play most of his minutes at center, anchors spurs defense and, plays back-to-the-basket;
that's a center too. Pau Gasol logs most of his minutes on center, and also plays on offense like one, he's also a center to me.
Horford can be counted as both skillwise, just like Gasol, but his skillset and size suggest he's rather a PF than C, playing out of position at times; just like Gasol is sometimes a PF playing out of position with Bynum on the floor. Amare can play center on defense; not like it's best idea- but his offensive game is not that of typical centers. He';s more a power-forward, his teams go small to make room for him under the basket but he's not starting most of his plays from the post, he attacks from triple threat quite a bit away from the basket. Like-wise I don't consider Bargs to be a true center atm; though he has physical tools to play that position. Anyway that's a label and it doesn't matter much for the game itself.
jeff1624 wrote:Dwight
Bogut
Bynum
Lopez
Duncan
Gasol
Noah
Chandler
Okafor
Jefferson, Horford and Nene are PF's
-Noah IMO is a Role Player at best. He's a liability offensively as he can't hit the jumpshot consistently, has little to no post game nor can he create his own shot. He's a good passer for his position, but, ultimately becomes useless as he isn't a threat to score on his own therefore wouldn't get double teamed and that's when the passing of a big man is at it's most useful. He's a good defender, especially on the pick and roll but he isn't a lock down defender either, which was shown clearly in the ECF. He is an excellent rebounder though, easily top 5 in the NBA in that area.
-Chandler got overrated by the Mavs' run as expected. He's a good defender and a solid enough rebounder but I don't remember anyone calling him a top center when he was on the bobcats. I'm not even gonna argue why I don't rate him that highly, I'll just say he's also a role player and leave it at that.
grimballer wrote:its not as simple as u make it sound.
boozer plays more in the post on offense.
noah is like dale davis. a definition of fc.
noah plays c on the bulls, cause they dont have a legit c, however he would be a very good fit with the nets playing anlong brook lopez.
ikkoikki wrote:jeff1624 wrote:Dwight
Bogut
Bynum
Lopez
Duncan
Gasol
Noah
Chandler
Okafor
Jefferson, Horford and Nene are PF's
-Noah IMO is a Role Player at best. He's a liability offensively as he can't hit the jumpshot consistently, has little to no post game nor can he create his own shot. He's a good passer for his position, but, ultimately becomes useless as he isn't a threat to score on his own therefore wouldn't get double teamed and that's when the passing of a big man is at it's most useful. He's a good defender, especially on the pick and roll but he isn't a lock down defender either, which was shown clearly in the ECF. He is an excellent rebounder though, easily top 5 in the NBA in that area.
-Chandler got overrated by the Mavs' run as expected. He's a good defender and a solid enough rebounder but I don't remember anyone calling him a top center when he was on the bobcats. I'm not even gonna argue why I don't rate him that highly, I'll just say he's also a role player and leave it at that.
this is the problem with fans these days imo, offense is over rated and defense is ignored and under rated.
Lopez over noah, really? Why, because he has a jump shot and nothing else? oookayyy...
Lopez should play the 3 because he ain't no center
jeff1624 wrote:ikkoikki wrote:jeff1624 wrote:Dwight
Bogut
Bynum
Lopez
Duncan
Gasol
Noah
Chandler
Okafor
Jefferson, Horford and Nene are PF's
-Noah IMO is a Role Player at best. He's a liability offensively as he can't hit the jumpshot consistently, has little to no post game nor can he create his own shot. He's a good passer for his position, but, ultimately becomes useless as he isn't a threat to score on his own therefore wouldn't get double teamed and that's when the passing of a big man is at it's most useful. He's a good defender, especially on the pick and roll but he isn't a lock down defender either, which was shown clearly in the ECF. He is an excellent rebounder though, easily top 5 in the NBA in that area.
-Chandler got overrated by the Mavs' run as expected. He's a good defender and a solid enough rebounder but I don't remember anyone calling him a top center when he was on the bobcats. I'm not even gonna argue why I don't rate him that highly, I'll just say he's also a role player and leave it at that.
this is the problem with fans these days imo, offense is over rated and defense is ignored and under rated.
Lopez over noah, really? Why, because he has a jump shot and nothing else? oookayyy...
Lopez should play the 3 because he ain't no center
Lopez is better because teams actually set up their defense to stop Lopez. Lopez is better because he can create his own shot, Lopez is better because he gets opposing bigs in foul trouble and shoots it over 80% from the line. Lopez is better because he actually has a post game and a pretty damn good one at that. Lopez is better because he gets doubled and triple teamed therefore getting teammates open looks. Lopez is better because you can't leave him open 15 feet away as he'll hit that shot every time.
If Lopez were on the bulls, Rose wouldn't have to take 30 shots to give his team a shot at winning the game.
NYK 455 wrote:Good list. Might switch Duncan and Bogut
Rich Rane wrote:I think we're all missing the point here. vc4pres needs to stop watching games.
ikkoikki wrote:johnwall wrote:yea, a whopping 1 point and 1 rebound more yet he plays 5 more mpgikkoikki wrote:Noah vs Chandler....
Noah averages more blocks, more assists, more points, more rebounds, he shoots a better FT%, he averages less turnovers...
how do they compare on the defensive end
ikkoikki wrote:this is the problem with fans these days imo, offense is over rated and defense is ignored and under rated.
Lopez over noah, really? Why, because he has a jump shot and nothing else? oookayyy...
Lopez should play the 3 because he ain't no center
Mikhail Prokhorov wrote:My posse usually needs another vacation after a vacation with me.
ikkoikki wrote:I didn't know lopez has a post game. Every time I watch him he's standing on the perimeter shooting jump shots. No wonder he averages such low rebounding numbers. Cant get many rebounds if you're always taking mid range jump shots
Call me old fashioned but a center needs to stay in the low post area, anchor the defense, grab boards and score when he can. Give me a double double guy over a guy like lopez who gets you 20/5 but does it by standing on the perimeter shooting J's. Thats not a center, the team still has to go out and find a real center who'll stay down low and rebound and defend.
Rich Rane wrote:I think we're all missing the point here. vc4pres needs to stop watching games.
Trader_Joe wrote:ikkoikki wrote:this is the problem with fans these days imo, offense is over rated and defense is ignored and under rated.
Lopez over noah, really? Why, because he has a jump shot and nothing else? oookayyy...
Lopez should play the 3 because he ain't no center
Lopez can shoot the jump shot (not his forte) but he is primarily a low post player.
You clearly don't know his game, and are spouting ignorance in order to tout Noah.
I would say he's the 2nd best center in the league on offense other than Dwight, though he has a much wider arsenal.
He
-has soft hands
-has great foot work/fundamentals
-can shoot the jump shot out to about 20 feet
-can take it the rim hard (top 10 in dunks years 1 and 2, top 20 in year 3)
-gets to the line a lot (2nd most among Centers at 6 fta) and shoots ~80%
Sure he is lacking on the glass but:
-The Nets were actually out rebounding their opponents ever so slightly most the season until Humphries went down, despite poor rebounding from the PG, SG and SF positions, because Lopez is big and boxes out well
-Lopez lost 25 pounds from Mono when he needed to gain 25 (he claimed to have gained it back, but it didn't look like it)
-He had a calcium deposit in his shoulder
-He averaged 8.6 & 8.1 his first two seasons
And yes he needs to work on his pick and roll defense, or when he is brought to the perimeter, but he is a good post defender and blocks shots (even more than Noah for their careers).
Plus Lopez has never missed a game in his career, while Noah has missed 52 the last two season alone.
jazzfan1971 wrote:When you say, 'post' do you mean the low post?
When other folks say 'perimeter' do you mean the high post?
Maybe we're just having trouble with semantics.
I dn't see Lopez as a low post center myself. I guess he can play down there, but, I think he's more comfortable in the high post.
vincecarter4pres wrote:This list is awful IMO, but my lists always tend to be different.
I also find it ironic how everyone craps on Lopez for his rebounding last year as if it has been his whole short 3 year career, but Gasol gets praised when he's not a good rebounder at all either.