Starting Frontcourt/Foundation Survey: "sf'', "pf","c"?

[Ruhiel]

1. MIA, OKC, MEM, CHI, DAL, LAL, and in a few years the clippers.
2. I want to get a center out of free agency (best case scenario: Dalembert, Chandler), or a young center like Geaux said, ideally I would trade Marvin for Hunnicut but that might just be a pipe dream.
SF-Smoove
PF-Horford
C-Hunnicut
3. Our SF (Josh) would rank pretty well anong the lines of NBA SF's but wouldn't be able to stack up to the likes of Durant, and Lebron (our competition). Our PF (AL) would be amongst the cream of the crop when it comes to our competition. He can match Bosh, he isn't as good as Gasol but because of the age factor that'll change, same with Zbo, he's no Dirk, and I would put him even with Blake Griffin (he may be fun to watch but numbers wise he and Al are pretty even. Our C (Hunnicut) would be developing and is in the back seat when it comes to our competition.
4. Get back to me on that one.

please, anyone who watched Al in the playoffs knows blake is twice the player and man. Guy attacks that basket hard both scoring and rebounding. Al shys away from physical play and sticks to his 15 foot [set] shots.

I wouldn't say Al shies away from contact because his lack of manhood. Its because he's not as coordinated as other guys his size say a Blake or Amare or Zach or smaller Forwards like Carmelo or Josh.

Look at Lebron, he's unccordinated in the post as well


This is his Al's game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfBMw3SAdG4#t=3m40s vs Bucks quick forwards
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVg1vUJdczQ trying to outmuscle smaller Scola
Success
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp22oXL56uk vs the slower McGee (Center)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQiGU3pxQ6M vs the smaller weaker Charlie V.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX_CK6z9B34

throwing elbows with lanky Noah

the problem is when he meets a stocky defender or a quick defender or a lanky strong one and they make him work for points ie Noah.

They force him out to the middle and he is not a natural 3pt shooter. He has a set shot (small shooting pocket) + he cant beat you off the dribble without a successful ball fake
He cant pull up off the dribble and shoot on balance like Amare... heck he shoots a set shot

all you have to do is put a relatively quick solid defender on him and live with the results of Horford isolation

[Ruhiel]

Starting with what we already have, and trying to stay realistically as possible, I think we should keep Horford and Smith. The two of them together is a great duo. Al really compliments Josh, when Josh is dominating the paint offensively.

I have never seen this? Josh compliments 3 point shooters and slasher. Al is neither... thats why people say they play the same position, even when Smith is at the wing...

Horford also compliments shooters in a spread offense at the 5. However Josh is not a true stretch 4. He's a guy you want posting up and working the baseline/ short corner.

[Geaux_Hawks]

If Josh is working in the post and Al is sitting just outside of the paint, then Josh can easily kick it out, as he has done this past year, to A if he gets doubled. I think that's what you would call a compliment.

[Ruhiel]

If Josh is working in the post and Al is sitting just outside of the paint, then Josh can easily kick it out, as he has done this past year, to A if he gets doubled. I think that's what you would call a compliment.

So Josh compliments Al well... You said Al complements Josh...

Well, I think anyone can tell you "just outside the paint" is not enough spacing. Those are statistically the worst shots in basketball. Not a 3 point shot and no chance to get fouled on the shot.

Even worse than the lack of spacing is the fact that Al can't shoot off the dribble or get to the rim for free throw attempts.

If you add up Al's top 3 free throw years he only gets 687.
Griffin had 695 free throw attempts last year.

Al had 188 free throw ATTEMPTS. 2700 minutes played. He led the team in minutes

Had Jeff Teague played that much and never improved he would have had 271 free throw attempts on the same 20% usage rate!

Marvin Williams missed 17 Games and only hit 3 less free throws than Al and his 17% usage means he's less aggressive.


Al does not compliment Josh. He can barely get any FGA with that spacing. That's why he says he's trying to extend his set shot range even more now...

What good is a jump shot if you can't get your shot off?

[Ruhiel]

Trying to do our Competition...

So.... whats our worst case scenario for opposing starters?

MIA
pf= Bosh
c= Dalembert
sf= James

these guys are in the West and will have a hard time getting to the Finals so meh...
LAC
pf= Griffin
c= Jordan
sf= Young (FA)/Iguodala?(trade

- what is NY's best case after this year?
If ive heard correct they wont be able to get Dwight w/o giving up one of Amare/Melo?

- Milwaukee. how good are their draft picks. Bogut is a good anchor have they struck gold with Harris and a tall 4 in Leuer filling their frontcourt?

[MaceCase]

If Josh is working in the post and Al is sitting just outside of the paint, then Josh can easily kick it out, as he has done this past year, to A if he gets doubled. I think that's what you would call a compliment.

So Josh compliments Al well... You said Al complements Josh...

They are one and the same. Either Josh get's one on one coverage in the post because the other big has to honor Al's shot or Al get's spacing on his jumper because the other big is helping on Josh. The season before when Josh took 64% of his shots inside as opposed to just 37% this season the Hawks were 2nd in offense. Zero coincidence there.

Woody may have had a basic offense but he instilled spacing for his team, Josh in the post, Al in the baseline or elbow 18 foot area (which is not "just" outside the paint btw), Marvin at the weakside corner 3 and Bibby at the top of the arc while Joe iso'ed on the strongside. Joe and Josh are the two initiators, one from the post, the other from the perimeter and everyone is spaced to compliment them giving them passing options and rebound lanes. The one season Josh bought in and freelanced to a minimum was also his best year shooting the ball and assisting (both indicators of spacing) the same was true for Joe but this season with no one near the paint amongst other reasons that evaporated.

The answer, either get Josh back in the post but he's shown that he shies away from too much banging in the playoffs or have Josh just totally buy in to hitting 3's at SF and add a low post threat like an Al Jefferson to maximize the roles that most of the player's have ingrained in them.

Decent answer to number 2.

[Ruhiel]

The answer, was get [Marion] back in the post at SF and just totally buy in to a [Dirk type] power forward hitting 3's. add a stretch 4 to maximize the roles that most of the player's have ingrained in them.

AL Horford is the one who shies away from contact. How many free throws did he attempt this year?

I dont care where the Hawks ranked in the regular season offense when it doesnt transfer to playoffs.

The Dallas Mavericks were 8th on offense w/ Dirk. Lakers 6th
"Hell yes. That's it. Hell yes. We've got the size now. We've got the depth. We've got a lot more depth than the Lakers. It's not even close there."

They had their priorities str8

That is a heck of a spin to say Smith shies away from contact when he played center no questions asked. Compared to ...

[Ruhiel]

ATL; Current Competition.ppt http://www.mediafire.com/?k3x5xtfpuwbkok1
ATL; RunnerUps.ppt http://www.mediafire.com/?q9cu34iqlakth3o
ATL; Champion Frontcourts (revised).ppt http://www.mediafire.com/?s4zr9rfrm7c2dcl

You guys can compare and make suggestions but to me formula seems to be: Offensive Rebounding + Capable Volume Shooters and Backups.

1- who is our competition (for the NBA title)? East / West
East: Miami, Chicago, NY, Milwaukee and maybe Philadelphia, anyone with a center as is...
2- what is the ideal frontcourt/foundation sf,pf,c situation to compete? (with current team/trade)
trade:
Starters
sf- Josh Smith- best rebounder in the NBA at the SF position, needs to lose few lbs for speed in pivot, capable of scoring in volumes especially if he loses lbs> regains elevation on 10 foot baseline "jump"shot, great diving and offensive rebounding; miniature- Tim Duncan
pf- Motiejunas- great. more than a volume shooter, if he bottoms out as a faster Yi Jianlian or Hakim Warrick on the boards with Hakim's ability to shoot slash and get to the free throw line then we become Elite Period. The reason Jamal's inefficiency and inability to get free throws and rebounds is expendable.
We get another shooter next to Johnson without sacrificing rebounding.
Hasheem Thabeet more than an expiring contract. Thabeet has never been the beneficiary of "respect calls" and this has been evident in Memphis.
Rookie year: Gasol's backup, played pf-c next to Gasol at times. Brings similar talents to Deandre Jordan and Tyson Chandler.

Offensive rebounding, Tip ins... Shaquille O'Neal has only surpassed .605 True Shooting twice in his career. Ralph Sampson? Duncan? never. Bill Walton? once.

60.5% is Dwight's accuracy. With his arsenal limited to offensive boards and assisted dunks Hasheem Thabeet can only manage a Kendrick Perkins type 10-12% Usage Percentage.
He may improve with spacing and experience but his Block % at 7.7 combined with Josh Smith puts us in Gold territory surpassing Duncan's teams. And we didnt even add Motiejunas' unknown block % yet.

pf- Jordan Hill, as a rookie in Houston he shot 57.5% True Shooting, rebounded 13% of all his teams missed shots! Those are Joakim Noah/Dwight Howard #s.
in Houston he played next to the smaller Scola at Center but here he will play next to the bigger Zaza Pachulia. His jumper may improve but his True Shooting that stretch was almost identical to Al's on identical usage as a rookie. Not because he picked and popped but because he got to the free throw line. Against Chicago and Boston he was particularly impressive even at Center his athleticism+ strength+ and willingness to bang inside is a huge boon.
c- Zaza Pachulia. Like I said with Jordan, Zaza's offensive rebound percentage is 11%. Dwight Howard's is 12%. His true Shooting % over the years has been at an excellent 56%.
The best playoff performer per minute amongst our bigs. His physicality and 6'11 frame + 16.1% Total rebounding consistently transfer to the playoffs.
Leads the team in rebound %.
sf- Malcolm Thomas- 7'2 wingspan, 6'8'5. Basically what we thought Williams and Smith would be when drafted.
His length and coordination will get him many free throws as a wing similar to Smith etc. All these players have an efficient mentality and stretch ability of 80s teams.

3- Where do our sf, pf, c rank to you amongst NBA elites/ our competition?
After trade considering our starters and the fact our bench would outclass CHIcago's starters Id put us next to Miami with their lack of depth even with Dalembert!

4- Which Frontcourt/Foundation do our SF, PF, C currently resemble/ can we resemble?

post trade? 07 San Antonio,
Bowen, Oberto, Duncan versus Smith, Thabeet, Motiejunas. If Smith's speed and baseline ability increase his usage goes up, his ability to get to the line increase even more and his turnover's decrease.
Unlike Shawn Marion he has been asked to facilitate (akin to Boris Diaw). With his combination of size, length and strength Smith like Billy Cunningham is an excellent rebounding SF (#1 in fact).

Shawn Marion has had better years rebounding than Smith's recent but other 6'8 guys like Durant, Carmelo Anthony, Gerald Wallace, and Lebron have yet to grab 15% of all available boards

[Geaux_Hawks]

Thabeet, Montiejunas, & Hill can be gotten for a lot cheaper deal.

[Ruhiel]

Thabeet, Montiejunas, & Hill can be gotten for a lot cheaper deal.

Oh come on? how?

[Ruhiel]

[Ruhiel]

Champion Frontcourts starters
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