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Pacers Contention Opportunity

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Pacers Contention Opportunity 

Post#1 » by SmashMouth » Thu Jul 21, 2011 12:18 am

Whats up to everyone who regularly posts here; I have enjoyed reading comments from some of u for sometime now. Ok now to the business..

The Pacers have an opportunity to be a contender next season. Some may wonder how can I seriously say that. They have a very good guard core with Hill, Collison and George. Granger is top 5 or 6 among small forwards. Most teams dont have a center so Hibbert is a precious jewel. The missing ingredient ???? I believe it is NeNe simply because he tries to Jam anytime u give it to him. He doesnt settle for jumpers although his touch isnt terrible. Teams would have to game plan to double or zone against the pick and rolls with Collison and Nene; which leads to my next point. Double teams and/or zones would leave Granger or George wide open for threes. This creates a pick your poison environment. Hibbert can even score on the low block; Collison is effective when getting good looks. On defense Nene brings a hard nose competitor; that can defend and rebound and if hibbert gets into foul trouble he can slide over to Center and T. Hans can play the 4. The bench wouldnt provide any breaks for opposing teams.
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Re: Pacers Contention Opportunity 

Post#2 » by Miller4ever » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:05 am

Welcome to the boards. Most people agree that Nene would be a great fit and would propel us to a higher tier. It's an exciting time to be a Pacers fan.
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Re: Pacers Contention Opportunity 

Post#3 » by 8points8seconds » Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:39 am

New to the board here as well. Hi all. I completely agree. I feel like were one god pf away from being able to make serious damage. Can't wait till season starts whenever that is.
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Re: Pacers Contention Opportunity 

Post#4 » by mizzoupacers » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:41 am

Welcome to the board new guys!

I agree that Nene would be a great addition (as long as his salary isn't so high that he ends up costing the Pacers the ability to keep other core players long-term). Adding him would give the Pacers a very solid starting lineup plus sixth man (Hill) and seventh man (Hansbrough).

But I think the Pacers would still need something more to move from darkhorse contenders to elite contenders. Not sure they can beat the likes of Miami or Chicago if their best player remains Danny Granger. (Not that I have anything against Granger.) I think they'd need an even bigger upgrade than Nene, or for someone already on the team to "make the leap" and become even better than Granger. Are you listening, Paul George?
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Re: Pacers Contention Opportunity 

Post#5 » by SmashMouth » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:03 am

Yeah I agree with you about the salary; and about bigger star power. I do believe in Paul George and Hibbert's development as future all stars. I feel that Paul George has the potential to become the go to player and that he will take big steps next season. I believe that the system used by Vogel will determine the effectiveness of every player.
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Re: Pacers Contention Opportunity 

Post#6 » by mizzoupacers » Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:14 pm

I'd like to see star potential in Hibbert, but I don't. He's just not athletic enough. He is a respectable NBA starting center, which is not easy to find. So he has value. But not star value I don't think.

I'm pinning my hopes on George or a trade/free agent/future draft pick.
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Re: Pacers Contention Opportunity 

Post#7 » by kdawg531 » Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:29 pm

I like Nene and I think he would be a great fit for this team. However, keep in mind he opted out of $12 million to become a free agent. With that in mind, it makes sense that he's either looking for at least that amount or a raise. I'm not sure Larry wants to pay anyone that much, especially since our money situation can't get much better than what it is now. The last thing he wants to do is overpay for someone like Nene when being patient could land us possibly an equal or better player for a fraction of the cost
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Re: Pacers Contention Opportunity 

Post#8 » by SmashMouth » Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:11 pm

Hibbert is very capable of becoming a player in the mold of Pat Ewing. Hes very close to being that good now and will continue to improve with time. His only weaknesses are strength and decision making which will develop with age. He can shoot 15 to 18 ft jumpers; has solid low post moves and foot work, and passes better than some point guards around the league. His ability to block shots is solid; and he has pretty solid defensive awareness he just needs a solid hustle 4 next to him in this case Nene would be ideal. Hibbert will look so much better next to a guy like Nene instead of Murph or McBob.
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Re: Pacers Contention Opportunity 

Post#9 » by mizzoupacers » Thu Jul 21, 2011 9:23 pm

Hibbert's NBA stats:

2008/09: 7.1 pts., 3.5 rebounds, 1.1 blocks, 0.7 assists, .471 fg pct.
2009/10: 11.7, 5.7, 1.6, 2.0, .495
2010/11: 12.7, 7.5, 1.8, 2.0, .461

Ewing's first three NBA years:

Year 1: 20.0 pts., 9.0 rebounds, 2.1 blocks, 2.0 assists, .474 fg pct.
Year 2: 21.5, 8.8, 2.3, 1.7, .503
Year 3: 20.2, 8.2, 3.0, 1.5, .555

I like Hibbert, but there's a big difference between him and Ewing. Ewing was an elite center the first time he played in an NBA game. Hibbert has steadily improved, but his numbers are still well short of even Ewing's rookie season, not to mention this season:

Ewing, Year 5: 28.6 pts., 10.9 rebounds, 4.0 blocks, .551 fg pct.

Do you really think Hibbert will ever come close to that?
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Re: Pacers Contention Opportunity 

Post#10 » by Solid » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:01 am

Welcome guys!

I see Hib as more of a Rik Smits sort.
And that's not half-bad.
I totally agree that Hib would benefit tremendously from the on court presence of a DD sort of guy. Rik certainly did.
I disagree with Mizzo that we need some "superstar" (not his words) to make us elite. I continue to believe that a team of unselfish and very good players can beat a one or two headed beast.

If we sign Nene or West (healthy) AND a good defensive minded center then I have no trouble seeing us beat Chicago or Atlanta etc. Boston's on it's last legs, Miami is beatable and may get worse instead of better.

Our talent will be close to our DD and Reggie days and we came very close to beating one of the best teams of all time.

You need great players to make up for all the little deficiencies of your line up.
A well rounded and deep team can succeed. It is just harder to build.

And much more fun to watch.
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Re: Pacers Contention Opportunity 

Post#11 » by SmashMouth » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:09 am

I do believe Hibbert's capable of reaching that type of stat line. The reason for Hibberts numbers being so low is simply because Jim O'Brien wanted to jack up 3's all day which didnt get Hibbert the ball on the block very often. Hibberts minutes were always inconsistent with O'brien as well. I believe if he recieved consistent minutes and touches he would produce numbers that might surprise many. Ewing was a high draft pick and the Knicks didnt have many other options so they gave him the ball a lot and he played a lot of minutes. Isnt it interesting that Hibbert performed strong against dwight howard and andrew bynum when given the opportunity (minutes and touches); but in some games when they cut his minutes trying to match up to other teams he had a poor stat line. On one night Hibbert finished with 19 points, 10 rebounds, and a block. Howard went for 25, 12, and 3. In another outing Howard finished with 25 points and 12 rebounds. Whereas Hibbert scored 26 points on 10-of-19 shooting to lead the Pacers to a 97-90 victory. Howard was the Defensive player of the year for the 2nd or 3rd year but had matchup trouble against average Roy Hibbert go figure.
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Re: Pacers Contention Opportunity 

Post#12 » by Miller4ever » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:34 am

Hibbert probably will never reach prime Ewing's stat line. I'm okay with that, though.
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Re: Pacers Contention Opportunity 

Post#13 » by mizzoupacers » Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:25 pm

Solid wrote:I continue to believe that a team of unselfish and very good players can beat a one or two headed beast... Our talent will be close to our DD and Reggie days and we came very close to beating one of the best teams of all time.


Well, I hope you are right! But the current team has a ways to go to match those teams of the past and would need to develop players as effective as Reggie Miller, Mark Jackson, Dale Davis, etc. and also match the team chemistry of that era. Not saying it can't be done, but it would sure be easier with an elite player or two. (And I'd argue that Miller was an elite player--no one on the current team is on that level yet.)

Incidentally, I think Miami is only going to get better. They are going to sign all kinds of role-playing, play-to-win vets for minimal cash, because those guys just want to win a championship and know a team with LeBron and Wade will always have the chance to do it. I predict it will happen over and over again and I will be pissed off about it year after year.
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Re: Pacers Contention Opportunity 

Post#14 » by Solid » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:01 pm

Sorry in advance for the length of this...

If Miami goes one more year without a championship I have my doubts that the three I!me!go's will not somehow implode.One injury at playoff time and they're toast.
And they just aren't that good.
Too many holes, not enough depth.

I could see the George's in a year or two putting a big dent in the advantage the Heat normally enjoy in the backcourt.
When Paul finds his jump-shot we will be good.
Their starter will beat ours by a little, our backup will beat theirs by a lot.

Granger will get out played.
But again, at the 3 spot, the big game making advantage the Heat normally rely on is just not as devastating against Danny and George as it is against most teams.

Collison is a decent point and can score. What ever problems we have against The A-hole and Dwayne will start to be made up here.

In the front court, without Nene, Bosh is a problem for us. Neither Hib nor Tyler can deal with him very well and one of them has to have a good game or here again we end up just a little short.

With Nene It's a different story.
Now our 4 handles their pretty well. Nene will outplay Bosh as often as not leaving Hibb and Tyler to just eat a couple of stiffs.

Any disadvantages we suffered at the smaller ranks will be completely be made up for unless the heat add some very good help.
Maybe Delembert could tip it back to them. But if we get Nene and they can't convince some strong player to work cheaply, then it is the heat who may find it difficult to beat the Pacers.

The possibility (BTW) of snagging a guy for half price because he wants to hug Labron's sack I find an uncompetitive and unfortunate possibility within the current contract structure. One that should be made more difficult in the next one.

If our guys get some good chemistry, and buy in to team work and defense, then I think you will find similar results in match up with other teams.

Chicago (for example) outplayed us at the 1 and the 4-5.
By the end of next season the advantage rose holds over Hill, George, Collison, and stevenson will be as thin as against almost anyone in the league.

Really it was Noah that we couldn't handle and now tada!...once again Nene to the fore! He will out score Noah and keep him off the glass way better than anyone else we had by far. Tyler/Boozer I can live with. So Hibbert becomes almost like an extra player.

By and large a front court of Hibbert, Nene, and Tyler, and Foster will be a load for most teams to deal with.
What was our weakness then would be our advantage - almost every night.

We will be beaten some nights when a Rose is unstoppable at the finish, but most nights our over all balance and depth will put most teams too far behind at the end for that to matter.

The Pacers - with the gusto showed in the playoffs, plus Hill to guard big points and Nene to strengthen our spine (plus a little seasoning and a little luck) - could be contenders.
May not win it.
May not make the conference finals.
But we could.
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Re: Pacers Contention Opportunity 

Post#15 » by mizzoupacers » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:56 pm

Who knows, Miami could implode like you are saying. But I'd bet not. They just won the East and came within two wins of a championship, with a supporting cast they had to cobble together in a single offseason and with Udonis Haslem and Mike Miller hurt for much of the year. Imagine that team with those two guys healthy. Plus you can reasonably expect a decent contribution from Chalmers--maybe Joel Anthony too. Then suppose they add a veteran frontcourt team player with some toughness (a Jeff Foster type) and a veteran pg who, unlike Mike Bibby, still has some game left in him, and that those two guys are willing to take minimal salary for a shot at a title. And imagine they get lucky with a draft pick or two (I thought Norris Cole looked like one of the most likely sleepers in this summer's draft).

In short, it's a lot easier to build a supporting cast than it is to build a core like Wade/LeBron/Bosh. Especially when that core is a huge help to you in attracting a supporting cast.

Miami worries me plenty and seems likely to be a very tough obstacle for the Pacers to overcome. The Pacers can't worry about the Heat; they just have to put together the best team they can. I like the direction the team is headed, but joining the ranks of real, actual contenders will not be easy.
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Re: Pacers Contention Opportunity 

Post#16 » by Gremz » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:29 pm

I wouldn't look into planning anything until a new NBA is sorted. It could hold all the key points to whether or not our contention window could start sooner or later.
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