Some Guy Ranked Us Last In...

[captaincrunk]

As an Indiana fan who lives in Indiana: I'd take a paycut to leave.

[daschysta]

It's not so bad in Bloomington, but I get your gist, i'm not a fan of the midwest in general. But in basketball terms if the new CBA dash's the hopes of some teams to go way over the cap to sign another superstar some very good players will start to see the young talented team who just made the playoffs, yet have the cap space to sign another max contract player without losing any talent, as an attractive professional destination, and despite rumours to the contrary I do believe that most great players value winning over the sexy location, and if indy DOES have anything it's rabid sports fans, reggie was treated like a god when he was here any big name player would be absolutely adored. Plus I know of at least one budding star in Eric Gordon who would love to come back home to play for his favorite team growing up.

That's just superstars. Second tier guys like David West, or Nene will simply follow the money, they don't have the luxury of being so choosy, and indy being indy certainly wouldn't be a deal breaker. Plus we have great management that's willing to spend and a very friendly and talented coaching staff to consider, Brian shaw in particular, who is our lead assistant was kobe's first choice to take over in LA next year and is known as a very good players coach, and Larry Bird himself has appeal to certain players (especially euro's that grew up idolizing him, even picky guys like Rubio listed indiana as one of the only places he'd play for that reason, alongside huge cities and bigger markets).

Evansville is yuck though, I used to live there a long time ago. Indianapolis itself really isn't that bad, and bloomington is like an oasis, but yeah most of indiana (rural) blech. Good thing the city itself is decent, and we get to pay people millions of dollars to come .

[captaincrunk]

Indy sucks monkey balls.

Also, Larry Bird is nice, but MJ is pretty nice too.

Let's just be honest: 2nd tier guys like Nene probably have 10 or 12 teams who want to give them some kind of contract.

[daschysta]

But not 10 or 12 teams that can actually pay him said contract. This year his choices would basically boil down to denver, indiana, new jersey and sacramento who can pay him the mammoth contract he is asking for.

Denver already made their offer and were turned down, i'm not sure they don't let him walk for the money he's asking.

Sacramento is an option but aren't as good of a team as the Pacers are, and are definitally less stable between cousins and evans, talented but volatile.

New Jersey would be basically giving up on their 2012 dreams by signing nene, I don't think that they'll blow it on him when they think maybe they can lure howard next year.

Indiana gives him, imo the best chance to win now, can pay him whatever he wants, and he fits a huge need.

Guys like David West are also an option, and who knows how valuable the cap will be after the CBA, could be that teams will need to shed salary, putting us in a strong negotiating position.

It isn't like Indy is some basketball purgatory or such a bad place that players would turn down millions of dollars to play there.

It isn't like we've had trouble retaining our free agents, or that players are begging to get out.

Reggie could have gone back home to california as a free agent multiple times, liked it here enough to stay, still lives here part of the time.

JO could have left to play with tim duncan in san antonio, or any other place, still wanted to stay, former players have nothign but good tings to say about the organization after they leave, and the fans are really passionate here as well. And let's face it, if you have millions of dollars you can have a great time wherever you live, and property is much cheaper here, plus Indianapolis is only about a bit more than an hour away from chicago, if any player is really starved for a big city they can find one of the best in the world basically next door.

[captaincrunk]

Lmao "Indy ain't so bad, it's near Chicago!"

[daschysta]

Lmao "Indy ain't so bad, it's near Chicago!"

Please read the entire post, I don't think that i'm being unreasonable. You're argument boils down to the fact that you believe players would take millions of dollars less to play anywhere that isn't indy. I simply provided a few reasons why I don't believe it to be true. Being near chicago certainly isn't a crux of my argument, just an observation. The much larger point is that noone that I know of has ever regretted playing in indy (except perhaps artest, who was suffering from some psychological complications at the time), and most people that used to play for us have raved about the organization. Our owner is a billionaire willing to spend whatever money it takes, provided the team has a chance to compete, and there is the bird factor.

Your argument boils down to lmao indy sux0rz!@! y would nE one want to go and play there lol! Despite the fact that they are one of the few teams willing and able to offer lucrative contracts, and of the ones that can is among the best.

Don't act like small markets can't attract/ keep decent players. I'm quite cosmopolitan, and i've been around the block a time or two, both in the country and out of the country, including most NBA cities. Indianapolis itself really isn't very awful, the city itself is actually not very small at all (12th largest in the US) and isn't suffering as badly economically as many other cities. Politically, and for many other reasons I don't care much for it, but it isn't really much of a dump at all, and surrounding area's such as carmel, geist, and noblesville are very nice suburbs, and consistantly rated highly nationally.

I have no love for the state as a whole, and I can tell you that evansville, for one, is a dump, but the city isn't so bad that athletes would turn down millions of dollars to play here, and our organization actually has a pretty pristine record in the last 20 years of play satisfaction and management reputation... Oklahoma City of all places has a thriving team, and athletes don't mind playing there, detroit is an awful, awful place and players didn't mind playing there. Don't act like Indy being indy would prompt second tier stars to turn down millions of dollars jsut to avoid playing there. They don't have the luxury of being so picky, provided they want to get paid.

[Paydro70]

I think the wordcount ratio in this crunk/daschysta discussion is hovering around 100:1. Furthermore,

[daschysta]

Trolling doesn't take many words. But i'm out.

[e4Nf6]

This thread needs less walls of text and more lulz-cats

[SWedd523]

I think the wordcount ratio in this crunk/daschysta discussion is hovering around 100:1. Furthermore,

Glad I'm not the only one.

[captaincrunk]

For real though, I know a bit about getting heard in a forum. If you want to write long posts, spread em out. Use paragraphs that aren't so long, and maybe even taglines.

[captaincrunk]

I have no love for the state as a whole, and I can tell you that evansville, for one, is a dump,

It really isn't.

Oklahoma City of all places has a thriving team, and athletes don't mind playing there,

Which free agent did they attract again?

detroit is an awful, awful place and players didn't mind playing there. Don't act like Indy being indy would prompt second tier stars to turn down millions of dollars jsut to avoid playing there. They don't have the luxury of being so picky, provided they want to get paid.

Who is the best free agent Indy has ever attracted?

They had to win 58 games to convince Chris Mullin to come play.

I like Indiana, they're one of my teams. But I don't think they're going to attract a big name FA. NBA superstars don't want to live in Carmel no matter how nice it is portrayed in US News and World Reports.

[daschysta]

Heh, yeah I was a bit bad about the wall of text.

I'm not labouring under the delusion that we will be able to attract a top flight star, but to be fair Indiana hasn't really had the cap space to play with in free agency and in many, many years. I don't consider guys like David West or Nene to be top flight stars that would turn down more money from indiana to play somewhere else, and out of the teams that have money this offseason (the pacers, the kings, the nets, and denver) Indiana would be the best team if they added a player like that. We can pay them more money, and offer them a key spot on an up and coming team. The nets are saving up for teh 2012 sweepstakes. Denver has lost felton, nene, kenyon martin, JR smith, and probably wilson chandler, they are not the same team anymore... that is most of their core. Sacto isn't really close to winning in the super tough western conference, and while they have talent they are so volatile... If the lockout lasts the whole season it's even more likely we can get someone like that, since they would be competing with the 2012 free agents. Plus Eric Gordon is coming up as an FA, and he has expressed interest in coming home eventually.

As for the question.

Jermaine oneal was an unrestricted free agent when he was 3rd in MVP voting, and decided to return to the pacers despite lucrative offers from other teams, reggie was an unrestricted free agent at points during his career, before he had built up his loyalty with the team. You mentioned chris mullin, but there really isn't a precedent for our current situation, since our best teams have been built through the draft and trades.

also sorry about he evansville dump comment, i lived there years ago myself, for all I know it could have improved alot, I know Indy has, and I live in Bloomington now, which is by no means awful at all. i actually like the bobcats quite a bit too (was a morrison fan in college, shame he didn't work out). This whole thign was spun out of boredom, and the comment about indy's current situation being worse, which I disagree with, but i'd be glad as a bobcat fan that you have cho, and that you're finally rebuiling the right way, the pacers probably should have done that years ago, but, fortunately, we've been able to draft players that have been steals late int he lottery and not picked up any bad contracts so it's worked out.

[captaincrunk]

Heh, yeah I was a bit bad about the wall of text.

I'm not labouring under the delusion that we will be able to attract a top flight star, but to be fair Indiana hasn't really had the cap space to play with in free agency and in many, many years. I don't consider guys like David West or Nene to be top flight stars that would turn down more money from indiana to play somewhere else, and out of the teams that have money this offseason (the pacers, the kings, the nets, and denver) Indiana would be the best team if they added a player like that.

That's true about the money, I hadn't really been thinking about it. But it could also be a result of the fact that they knew free agency wasn't a boone to the team. Also, both David West and Nene are borderline All Stars. If Boozer's contract is any indication, they'll be expensive (though hopefully not as expensive as he is).

We can pay them more money, and offer them a key spot on an up and coming team. The nets are saving up for teh 2012 sweepstakes. Denver has lost felton, nene, kenyon martin, JR smith, and probably wilson chandler, they are not the same team anymore...

Denver hasn't lost any of them but Felton and only because they traded him. And Dani + Chandler + Nene ought to be what they try to get as their core.

Sacto isn't really close to winning in the super tough western conference, and while they have talent they are so volatile...

I think Sacramento's trade for Hickson put them out of the running for Nene. They want to stay younger.

If the lockout lasts the whole season it's even more likely we can get someone like that, since they would be competing with the 2012 free agents. Plus Eric Gordon is coming up as an FA, and he has expressed interest in coming home eventually.

Eric Gordon? Would put Paul George or Granger out of a job unless you start Granger at Pf (which ruins so many of his advantages).

As for the question.

Jermaine oneal was an unrestricted free agent when he was 3rd in MVP voting, and decided to return to the pacers despite lucrative offers from other teams, reggie was an unrestricted free agent at points during his career, before he had built up his loyalty with the team. You mentioned chris mullin, but there really isn't a precedent for our current situation, since our best teams have been built through the draft and trades.

It's a lot easier to return to a team and a fanbase that loves you than to move somewhere. That's why OKC isn't as worried about losing Durant as they might be. And I wonder if Perkins would have accepted that contract if he was just an UFA coming out of Boston? Possibly, but the fact that he was already there tremendously boosted those chances.

also sorry about he evansville dump comment, i lived there years ago myself, for all I know it could have improved alot, I know Indy has, and I live in Bloomington now, which is by no means awful at all. i actually like the bobcats quite a bit too (was a morrison fan in college, shame he didn't work out). This whole thign was spun out of boredom, and the comment about indy's current situation being worse, which I disagree with, but i'd be glad as a bobcat fan that you have cho, and that you're finally rebuiling the right way, the pacers probably should have done that years ago, but, fortunately, we've been able to draft players that have been steals late int he lottery and not picked up any bad contracts so it's worked out.

It's boring in evansville, but it actually has culture now and has for a few years. I go to the university so that might be why it isn't so terrible.

I'd much rather live in Louisville though.

[Rich4114]

Have to admit, I didn't read like 70% of this thread so far. But to the basic overall point being debated, Indiana is certainly a team on the rise and in a good position but like Stun said at best - the Atlanta Hawks. You have your Joe Johnson in Danny Granger and a bunch of J-Smove type guys around him. So the ceiling is what, 4th place? That's not so bad, the old Charlotte Hornets were there for years. But it does suck knowing you have the same chance of winning a title as the mid-lottery teams.

The point being made is MJ is starting over for a chance to get the A+ superstar difference maker AND sign the A+ superstar FA should they become available. Indiana can't really do that, although they are in much better position than a lot of other EC teams.

[Kembastockton]

You have your Joe Johnson in Danny Granger and a bunch of J-Smove type guys around him.

A bunch of J- Smove types?

Crunk? Jaruff? Where you guys at? When I make exaggerations like this you guys are all over me. What gives?

[amcoolio]

I didn't know I would start some controversy, but what I meant was: Charlotte has a chance to draft a superstar because we'll probably be really bad this year and the draft is very top loaded (if there is no lockout, which is uncertain) but teams like Milwaukee, Indiana, Detroit will hover around 10-15 and also be unable to sign anyone, nor are they a threat to come close to winning a playoff series. We were in the same position; we decided to blow it up to have that chance.

LA Clippers same thing. Do you really think they will get a Dwight Howard or Paul, even with Griffin there? At best Griffin will be a great #2 option, and at best the Clippers will make the playoffs, but they are no OKC. They also won't be bad enough to draft a superstar type player that would put them over the hump.

[captaincrunk]

You have your Joe Johnson in Danny Granger and a bunch of J-Smove type guys around him.

A bunch of J- Smove types?

Crunk? Jaruff? Where you guys at? When I make exaggerations like this you guys are all over me. What gives?

To be honest, J Smoove would be the 2nd best player on the Pacers right now. Paul George probably has a higher ceiling but he certainly isn't there yet.

[old rem]

Am I the only one hoping Henderson doesn't get paid a lot?

Ideally I would like to draft Barnes this summer and trade Gerald for Austin. That would make for an awesome team going forward.

Kemba, DJ
Austin, freeagent
Barnes, Cunningham
Tyrus, White
Bismack, Kwame

As far as the article goes people are always low rating this team. Fats. do you remember that clown that kept coming on this board year one saying that we were going to break the leagues fewest win record?

The only guy on your dream team starting 5 with an NBA minute on his resume is Tyrus,who's unpredictable. Austin has yet to play in college and Biyumbo is green enough he won't start for at least a year.

To say the Bobs have damn little trade value....is true. Your main assets will be rookies and otherwise, it's Augustin,who maybe 5 teams see as a starter.

[captaincrunk]

Am I the only one hoping Henderson doesn't get paid a lot?

Ideally I would like to draft Barnes this summer and trade Gerald for Austin. That would make for an awesome team going forward.

Kemba, DJ
Austin, freeagent
Barnes, Cunningham
Tyrus, White
Bismack, Kwame

As far as the article goes people are always low rating this team. Fats. do you remember that clown that kept coming on this board year one saying that we were going to break the leagues fewest win record?

The only guy on your dream team starting 5 with an NBA minute on his resume is Tyrus,who's unpredictable. Austin has yet to play in college and Biyumbo is green enough he won't start for at least a year.

To say the Bobs have damn little trade value....is true. Your main assets will be rookies and otherwise, it's Augustin,who maybe 5 teams see as a starter.

- edit - i know you're smashed but enough with the name calling. seriously. - fats