Salary Aside: Talent Wise (HOU-ATL)

[Ruhiel]

Firstly Do NOT shoot it down because of salary, and don't factor yearly salary into your player evaluation. Act like they are all on matching 2 year deals.



Talent wise and roster wise let's make a trade:

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=3maebfq

edit: {Marvin Williams + Pick} for {Chandler Parsons, Jordan Hill, Hasheem Thabeet}

The point of moving Marvin to Houston would be to get rid of some of those wings. Morris is a 3/4 tweener more useful as a 4. Budinger is a spot shooter, who can run, but better off the bench since he is undersized.

[LApwnd]

than what is the point for Hou? not like they're consolidating mulitple players into 1 players whos more talented. Its clear by Marvin isn't going to be as good as he was projected to be.

[Mr. E]

Since we have to pretend that Marvin Williams doesn't have a player option in 2013/2014, and since we have to pretend that Hill & Thabeet are essentially expirings if they don't work out this season then I'm going to say that Houston declines this because of the pretend ankle injury Marvin got while he was running from the CIA in a situation that I just made up because he is actually (in this scenario) a Soviet spy.

[Ruhiel]

the dreaded Mr. E shows up.

All jokes (and salary) aside, since you're a Houston fan what do you think of a Marvin for Parsons, Hill, Thabeet deal.
Player for Player. Team fit etc.

[LApwnd]

the dreaded Mr. E shows up.

All jokes (and salary) aside, since you're a Houston fan what do you think of a Marvin for Parsons, Hill, Thabeet deal.
talent for talent. Team fit etc.

I know you asking that guy but why would Hou give up assets for williams? Its not like thats their position of need...Patterson, Morris both have as much chance at producing Marvin # even now even that Twilliams guy I guess could have as much chance to do what Williams does.

[Ruhiel]

well I didn't think up this trade.

I said we should get another SF and try Williams at the 2 (bench/backup) since A) he's shown he's more comfortable scoring and posting up on smaller guards and he loves to catch and shoot over them.
B) he draws the whistle there C) this would showcase his versatility and make him more moveable if we felt like it was needed.

I said we needed to trade Al Horford to Houston to acquire the volume scoring lefty Motiejunas to pair with Smith, some size in Thabeet and also acquire Jordan Hill to play PF next to Pachulia or C for guys like Joakim Noah.

My other pal (also an ATL fan) suggested this to get 2/3 of those assets. I said it made no sense for Houston and Atlanta would have no spacing or go to scoring. And here we are.

[LarsV8]

I don't get it. Is there a pick coming back or something?

I don't really get this talent for talent thing. You have to be more specific for this question.

[Ruhiel]

Player for Player if these guys were on equal deals....

Marvin Williams trade for Chandler Parsons, Hasheem Thabeet, Jordan Hill?

Is there any incentive on Houston's part? Chase being only 6'7 perhaps? Terrence Williams wanting to play point guard?

edit: add a 1st round pick

[LarsV8]

I wouldnt do it.

Who knows what Parsons has, he could be the next Budinger or the next Dorsey for us.

I really like Hill, he is developing nicely.

Thabeet is trash, don't really care about him.

They are going to play Marcus Morris at the 3, they are really high on him.

[Geaux_Hawks]

I would have at least put together an actual deal, and not offered a talent for talent deal featuring 3 players for 1. I didn't suggest that at all. A future first round pick + Marvin for Hill, Thabeet, & Parsons seems quite decent for both sides. Salaries match evenly if for this year and if the TO's are picked up, its still about the same. I guess the only downfall could be Marvin's PO, but I think his on-court performance will justify his contract if Houston is playing him.

IMO the deal is Marvin for Hill, then the first for Thabeet & Parsons.

I honestly think Morris will pan out better as a 4, but will be able to play some 3. Terrance Williams still blows my mind being a lottery pick and I think Houston management is kicking themselves for giving up a first for him. Budinger is a good guy off the bench.

[Ruhiel]

1st pick = Thabeet is viewed as trash not treasure and the 6'10 Parsons was a 2nd rounder.
I guess that's a go?

So the trade is Marvin for Hill, moves Budinger to the bench, makes Williams expendable, moves Marcus Morris to kickstart his development as a 4

[LarsV8]

We have a 2012 plan, can't take salary.

[Geaux_Hawks]

We have a 2012 plan, can't take salary.

If its Dwight, I say cancel it, unless Josh threw a hint when he prefered Houston as a team to be traded to.

[LarsV8]

Okay cancelled.

[Sasaki]

I honestly think Morris will pan out better as a 4, but will be able to play some 3. Terrance Williams still blows my mind being a lottery pick and I think Houston management is kicking themselves for giving up a first for him. Budinger is a good guy off the bench.

Williams has absolute insane talent, and is probably the most talented member of the Rockets - there's no doubt he should have been a lotto pick.

But good god, Von Wafer and Stromile Swift look like Einstein compared to him. It's incredibly frustrating, because he could be so amazing together if he put it together upstairs.

As for the OP's trade.... why do we do this? Thabeet is likely to continue to suck, but there is a chance he fills a valuable role, and if there's anywhere he could pull it off, it's in a city with a proud tradition of bigs and being taught by one of the best bigs ever to play the game in McHale. We're not going to just dump him at this point, which is pretty much what getting Williams would be. Three prospects, one of whom could help a lot if he put it together, for a guy who really isn't that good. Heck, is Williams even that much better than Budinger?

[Ruhiel]

I honestly think Morris will pan out better as a 4, but will be able to play some 3. Terrance Williams still blows my mind being a lottery pick and I think Houston management is kicking themselves for giving up a first for him. Budinger is a good guy off the bench.

Williams has absolute insane talent, and is probably the most talented member of the Rockets - there's no doubt he should have been a lotto pick.

But good god, Von Wafer and Stromile Swift look like Einstein compared to him. It's incredibly frustrating, because he could be so amazing together if he put it together upstairs.

His crossover is pretty incredible but he doesn't want to be a go-to scorer. He wants to pass, maybe bcuz he thinks his jumper will fail him and lower his value as a shooter vs big guard?

my $0.02.

As for the OP's trade.... why do we do this? Thabeet is likely to continue to suck, but there is a chance he fills a valuable role, and if there's anywhere he could pull it off, it's in a city with a proud tradition of bigs and being taught by one of the best bigs ever to play the game in McHale.

Please. I hate when people get drafted and other people try to change their games.
Thabeet.... proud tradition of bigs......McHale????
Really?

He's a 7 and 7 on great shooting efficiency. Maybe if he goes 0 for 3 he'll have 5 blocks.

He's a taller Zaza Pachulia, he'll never be mentioned with McHale.

As for valuable role? Is he going to play 26 mpg and start? On Atlanta he'd be neck and neck with Josh Smith for Defensive Rating.
Houston's wings on the other hand are Chase Budinger and Kevin Martin ...
Oil and water won't mix.
J. Hill is a power forward. Both of them were offered for trade for Biedrins... a guy who played successfully with bad defenders in GSW.

We're not going to just dump him at this point, which is pretty much what getting Williams would be. Three prospects, one of whom could help a lot if he put it together, for a guy who really isn't that good. Heck, is Williams even that much better than Budinger?

????
I'll say this, the only way we can raise his value is let Crawford walk and sign another Post Up SF to put Marv at JC's spot.
Good role player with mismatch potential but Hawks are so stupid, Trying to fit square pegs into circular holes.

Just about everyone plays out of position here.

[Guy986]

I dont like it. Marvin Williams is not the ideal 3 i'm looking for. Not a good 3pt shooter nor a standup defender. Pass.

[Mr. E]

the dreaded Mr. E shows up.

All jokes (and salary) aside, since you're a Houston fan what do you think of a Marvin for Parsons, Hill, Thabeet deal.
Player for Player. Team fit etc.

I like that I am dreaded.

First off, you are on the right track that a deal for Houston would need to see more players go out than come in, and second, you do address one of our positions of need.

Problem is, I don't like Marvin Williams, even if he is better than what we have now. I think that he's already hit his ceiling, and that he's pretty much a disappointment and not a player to try to build with moving forward (hence Atlanta's seeming desire to move him).

Hill is progressing, and will probably do better with more minutes than Adelman was going to give him. Thabeet...I still want to see if someone can pierce this guy's head and get him to play like the 7 footer that he is. Not holding onto too much hope. Parsons...I don't know anything about him. Pretty much a non-entity in this deal.

If all things are equal here then I would rather role the dice on two big men possibly progressing rather then use them in a deal to bring in a guy who may have already hit his highest potential.