3 team deal: Colby Rasmus to Toronto

number15 · Post #1 » by **number15** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:07 pm

3 team deal..... Jays sent Jason Fraser and Zach Stewart to Tigers for Edwin Jackson and Mark Teehan

then it is said that Jays will deal Edwin Jackson to Cardinals for Colby Rasmus

Marc Rzpchinsky/Octavio Dotel/Edwin Jackson for Colby Rasmus/Brian Tallet/Trever Miller/PJ Walters

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your reactions?

Relentless88 · Post #2 » by **Relentless88** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:58 pm

*White Sox not the Tigers.

Zach Stewart, Jason Frasor, Trever Miller to Chicago.

Colby Rasmus, Mark Teahen, PJ Walters to Toronto.

Edwin Jackson, Octavio Dotel, Marc Rzepczynsky, Corey Patterson to St. Louis.

Great deal for the Jays.

trwi7 · Post #3 » by **trwi7** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:05 pm

Great deal for the Jays. Bad for Cards and Sox.

Post #4 » by **Schad** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:27 pm

How we traded three relievers, a prospect who might end up as a reliever, and salary relief for a cost-controlled 25 year old (in two weeks) center fielder fresh off a 4+ WAR season, I'm not sure. But I like it.

Pharmcat · Post #5 » by **Pharmcat** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:31 pm

LOL at the cards and white sox

terrible
this jays gm is becoming a force to be reckoned with in the al

Post #6 » by **Schad** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:49 pm

The White Sox actually made out okay...their salary situation is scary-bad, so it's unlikely that they'd have been able to meet Boras' demands for Jackson. They dumped a tonne of money here ($8m or thereabouts, I think) and got back a rental RP and a guy who was a top prospect entering the year. It's St. Louis that really got mauled in this one.

BritneysBestBet · Post #7 » by **BritneysBestBet** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 7:19 pm

Pharmcat wrote:LOL at the cards and white sox

terrible
this jays gm is becoming a force to be reckoned with in the al

Agreed! AA knows whats good! Wooo go jays!

Post #8 » by **mizzoupacers** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:47 pm

Marc Rzepczynski better turn into a good starting pitcher. I find it hard to believe he's the only thing of any potential lasting value that the Cardinals could get for Rasmus.

Rasmus and J.D. Drew had a number of things in common during their time in St. Louis. I'd anticipate a similar career for Rasmus, only with fewer days off for minor health complaints. The Cardinals got Wainwright for Drew. I don't feel anywhere near as good about this trade.

Post #9 » by **Nolan** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:14 pm

The Jays made out like bandits today. The White Sox didn't make out so badly either, they dumped a ton of salary and got back a pretty decent prospect.

Post #10 » by **HCYanks** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:40 am

Schadenfreude wrote:How we traded three relievers, a prospect who might end up as a reliever, and salary relief for a cost-controlled 25 year old (in two weeks) center fielder fresh off a 4+ WAR season, I'm not sure. But I like it.

You've been a witness to the magic of Tony LaRussa.

Wavy Q · Post #11 » by **Wavy Q** » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:13 am

Raptors should hire the Jays GM

Post #12 » by **Schad** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 4:59 pm

HCYanks wrote:
Schadenfreude wrote:How we traded three relievers, a prospect who might end up as a reliever, and salary relief for a cost-controlled 25 year old (in two weeks) center fielder fresh off a 4+ WAR season, I'm not sure. But I like it.

You've been a witness to the magic of Tony LaRussa.

Heh, couple hours before the trade went down, when the Jackson trade was first reported:

Randle McMurphy wrote: Wilner seems to think that the Jays could throw Jackson to the Cardinals for Rasmus. LaRussa and company couldn't possibly be that stupid, could they?

Schadenfreude wrote:The depth of Tony LaRussa's stupidity really cannot be overestimated.

As it turned out, I still underestimated him...assumed that we were surely throwing one of our better prospects into the mix. There's still the possibility that the PTBNLs may include a couple of our good 2010 draftees, I guess.

Post #13 » by **mizzoupacers** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:06 pm

The guy who ranks #3 all-time in wins is stupid?

I hate this trade, but the reasons for it are more complicated than that.

Post #14 » by **Schad** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 7:46 pm

mizzoupacers wrote:The guy who ranks #3 all-time in wins is stupid?

Stupid might not be the right word. So utterly consumed by his own ego that he's impervious to logic or the trappings of reality is closer to the mark, but takes more typing.

Post #15 » by **mizzoupacers** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 9:46 pm

Rasmus, Brendan Ryan, Chris Perez, Anthony Reyes and Scott Rolen would probably agree with you. :wink:

But Pujols, Carpenter, Wainwright, Holliday, Jim Edmonds etc. might not...La Russa's personality conflicts with players hurt the team, but whether I like it or not he has his own way of doing things and most of the time it works.

Post #16 » by **Schad** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:32 pm

mizzoupacers wrote:Rasmus, Brendan Ryan, Chris Perez, Anthony Reyes and Scott Rolen would probably agree with you.

But Pujols, Carpenter, Wainwright, Holliday, Jim Edmonds etc. might not...La Russa's personality conflicts with players hurt the team, but whether I like it or not he has his own way of doing things and most of the time it works.

My feeling, in general, is that managers should set the lineup, make pitching changes, and otherwise pretty well stay in the background. A good manager helps the team by not losing them games, but La Russa can't help himself; he has to overmanage, because has to make sure everyone knows that he's running the team at all times. And when a player crosses him, they have to go, no matter whether trading them makes any sort of on-field sense.

Sidenote: the one bizarre thing that Tony likes to do that earns him the most flak is the one thing that is fairly well-grounded...batting the pitcher eighth. I can't remember the exact reasoning behind it, but Tom Tango has written that on average, you'll score a couple more runs per season hitting them eighth rather than ninth.

Post #17 » by **mizzoupacers** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:09 am

Yeah, lots of people don't like his managing style. But he's still a good manager. His teams win. I'd argue that over the years the Cardinals have probably had a little more success than their level of talent would justify.

And while I don't like the trade, there actually is some on-field sense to it. It's a win now move. For this season, the Cardinals significantly upgraded both their starting rotation and their bullpen, without too much of a downgrade to their outfield since Jon Jay has been outplaying Rasmus. They also eliminated a source of clubhouse tension. I just wish they had gotten a better long-term asset out of the trade; seems like that should have been possible for someone with Rasmus's potential.

bigboy1234 · Post #18 » by **bigboy1234** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:42 am

Think you meant to put Edmonds on that other list...along with Ozzie, Gant, etc.

Deal comes down to if the Cards make Rzep a starter, and they don't really have room for that, so it's not looking good. Love Rzep's GB% and K%. But they are paying Lohse, Westbrook, Carp, Wainwright a lot of money next season and have Jaime, then Shelby in the wings next season. So really no room to make him a starter. And might resign Edwin, who I think has become very very underrated starter, he has been an #1 level starter while with the White Sox, those numbers in the AL and in that park are impressive. In the past calender year Edwin ranks 13th and 23rd in xFIP and FIP respectively amongst the 142 starters with 100 IP. You just never know if he may resort back to his crappy days.

Post #19 » by **mizzoupacers** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 1:34 pm

You might be able to put Edmonds on either side of the La Russa debate. Kind of a love-hate relationship between those two. But he did have his best years with the Cardinals.

I give it decent odds that Rzep will get a chance to start at some point with the Cardinals. He is cost-controlled for a long time to come. Meanwhile Lohse's contract is up after next year, Carpenter might not have many seasons left, Westbrook's contract doesn't run that long...throw in the inevitable injuries and I bet Rzep gets a shot at it.

I do wonder whether Jackson fits, and at what price, after this season is over. I'd sure feel better about the trade if he turns out to be more than just a rental.

Post #20 » by **HCYanks** » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:23 pm

mizzoupacers wrote:I do wonder whether Jackson fits, and at what price, after this season is over. I'd sure feel better about the trade if he turns out to be more than just a rental.

That's the issue right there. Jackson will be an effective starter down the stretch in the NL Central. Given your immediate outfield situation, the 2011 Cardinals are better on paper after this trade. It's after that where the trade looks hideous. And i'm not sold on Rzepczynski making it worth it.

Also TLR seems dead set on giving Corey Patterson regular playing time. That's a bad thing.