69-78 Dynasty League Playoffs (ERA OVER)

[penbeast0]

Miller4ever
QB John Lucas '78 (30)/Norm Nixon '78 (18)
Wing Joe Caldwell '70 (36)/Adrian Dantley '78 (12)
Wing Rick Barry '75 (42)/Larry Kenon '77 (6)
Big Wes Unseld '75 (30)/Larry Kenon '77 (18)
Big Walt Bellamy '69 (36)/Wes Unseld '75 (12)/Robert Parish '78 (spot)

Plenty of playmaking here, Bells scores inside, Barry outside, and Caldwell slashes while Unseld sets picks. Bellamy was as annoying to his coaches as Elvin Hayes but Unseld worked well with the big E; no one worked well with Barry, Caldwell had ego issues too (it’s supposedly why he went to the ABA) and Dantley had a tendency to sulk at times so some chemistry issues (that was NOT a John Lucas joke – hopefully this is before the drug problems took hold).

Gremz
PG - Norm Van Lier
1973-74 14.3ppg 6.9apg 4.7rpg 2.0spg .406 FG% .778 FT%
All-Defensive 1st
All-NBA 2nd
SG - Jerry Sloan
1971-72 16.2ppg 8.4rpg 2.6apg .444 FG% .660 FT%
All-Defensive 1st
SF - Elgin Baylor
1968-69 24.8ppg 10.6rpg 5.4apg .447 FG% .773 FT%
All-NBA 1st
PF - Nate Thurmond
1970-71 20.0ppg 13.8rpg 3.1apg .445 FG% .730 FT%
All-Defensive 1st
C - Artis Gilmore
1971-72 23.8ppg 17.8rpg 2.7apg 5.0bpg .598 FG% .646 FT%
ABA MVP
All-ABA 1st
Reserves
PF - Connie Hawkins
1969-70 24.6ppg 10.4rpg 4.8apg .490 FG% .779 FT%
All-NBA 1st
PG - Mack Calvin
1974-75 19.5ppg 7.7apg 2.8rpg 1.9spg .485 FG% .896 FT%
All-ABA 1st
SG- Dick Van Arsdale
1973-74 17.8ppg 4.2apg 2.8rpg .500 FG% .853 FT%
All-Defensive 2nd
Kermit Washington
1977-78 11.6ppg 10.8rpg 1.3apg .487 FG% .691 FT%

Hopefully someone passes Artis the ball as the Bulls never really did after he joined the team. This really is a GREAT defense, inefficient offense crew outside the A-Train and the bench though Elgin makes up for a lot of his by drawing fouls. Tough players, good chemistry guys generally (Hawk had some issues). Thurmond had trouble working with Wilt according to the stories in Terry Pluto’s “Tall Tales,” with his size and athleticism he always wanted to be the center unlike, say, Webber and Rasheed with the Bullets who demanded someone else take on the bigs on D. There will be some serious spacing issues here too as Baylor is working inside where, well, all the other starters except maybe Norm Van Lier, want the ball.

Mjallday59
PG: Jerry West [69-70]
SG: Sam Jones [68-69]
SF: Hal Greer [68-69]
PF: Spencer Haywood [69-70]
Cc: Bill Russell [68-69]

Key Reserves Archie Clark, Rudy T, Dan Issel

6-2 Hal Greer is playing SF? (I know B-R says he can but that was only in short spots early in his career). Sam Jones is more like it but he will have problems and then some with Elgin Baylor too – he’s okay v Rick Barry as much as anyone. I don’t, however, see any problems with Greer as secondary ballhandler with Jerry West, they are as good a fit as West/Goodrich, maybe better as Greer was a better two way player. I love even an aging Russell and West combination but this is a huge weakness . . . and Spencer Haywood was supertalented but practically defined the word immature. (I looked it up, Tomjanovich was drafted by Mjallday, not sure why I think I saw him earlier on another team).

Not thrilled with any of these teams. It’s hard to pick against Russell and West and if they had a legit SF with Sam Jones coming off the bench I’d pick them and walk away confident, but 69 version of Sam Jones is going to have trouble here. They do have a nice mix of interior scoring (Haywood) and defense (Russell), great rebounding, and lots of outside shooting with good guard defense. The bench doesn’t provide defense but does give more scoring. I still think I have to give it to mjallday by a hair but not with confidence.

Miller and Gremz is basically Baylor v. Barry as prime scorers. Barry’s outside game won’t be that bothered by the two center defense though Sloan is a great defender in his own right. Miller’s team is better balanced and Gremz has huge spacing issues with everyone trying to get within 5 feet of the rim to shoot. Gremz has much more talent (I consider defensive talent part of talent) but I just can’t see it working very well and Unseld’s picks are going to shake up even the linebacker mentality of Sloan. Tough call again. . . . but when in doubt, go with talent and Gilmore, Baylor, and co are the more talented.

1. mjallday59
2. Gremz
3. Miller4ever

Really shaky on this one (could have used better rebuttals than "no, cause, no" and " ". Maybe 2 games will separate these teams over the season.

[TMACFORMVP]

Miller4ever v. MJallday59
I love both teams duos - West/Russell, and Unseld/Barry have very similar strengths. Scoring sort perimeter players with big men that defend, set picks, rebound, and anchor a defense. I also think both teams took some questionable picks after the first two. I understand the appeal for Haywood, but I'm not completely sure he was the right pick with the team. However saying this, I still like him more in the matchup against Bellamy, who's now past his prime, and not a particularly effective defensive player either. I'm not so sure on the three guard lineup for MJ, which will hurt him defensively against Barry, but I also think in general overall that MJ's perimeter talent is greater. I'm just not impressed with Lucas, or Caldwell, moreso solid role players, but not in the grand scheme of things. It's more traditional than MJ's however. West as a PG is smart IMO, especially in a league that's devoid of true elite PG talent. I don't see huge bench contributors either, so it's really hard to differentiate between both teams. I think in this scenario, I'll go with the team I feel possess better talent. Vote: MJallDay59

Miller4ever v. Gremz
I think Miller did a nice job of trying to point out Gremz weaknesses, however, I think it's also a problem that his team could face as well. Bellamy was a solid, but not spectacular scorer, Lucas was rather mediocre, similarly with Caldwell. Unseld had a bigger impact on the game on the offensive end than his stats would indicate, but he's not going to particularly kill anyone with his offensive game either. Then factor in Gremz defense (in this case, having Thurmond at PF doesn't hurt him at all) with interior shot blocking, and the perimeter defense of Sloan, and Van Lier helping, I don't know if Miller could generate enough points to win this one. I hate to go against Miller, since I think he did a nice job of getting some keepers with fill in sort picks in later rounds, I'm just not sure he can overcome Gremz's defense. Vote: Gremz

Gremz v. MJallDay59
This is a great matchup. West is the best offensive player in this series, and a final year Russell versus a peak ABA Gilmore would be a great matchup. I think Haywood is a guy that could take Thurmond off the dribble, but he was high volume, and from what I've read not the best team player. Gremz will have the pieces to throw at anyone defensively, and he'll have two elite perimeter defenders to throw at MJ's backcourt. I still think West should get near his averages, since he was just that good, but I don't see how they have an answer for Baylor either. If there's a situation in which Baylor could fit, it's the team Gremz has constructed. MJ's offensive talent is certainly better, but they will struggle versus Gremz defense. I think on paper MJ has more talent on his team, while Gremz did a nice job of alluding to in his writeup of the lack of perimeter defense outside of West - and overall team definitions/roles suits his team better. Honestly sort of toss up series, but I think I understand Gremz plan of attack better through his writeup. I'll tie it up. Vote: Gremz


BlackIce v. SamBone
Moses is actually a solid player in this era, but he's not nearly good enough along with a young supporting cast to take on a very good frontcourt of Jones and Lucas, led by one of the most dominant peaks to have ever played the game in 76' Erving. I think teams can exploit BI's backcourt, but SamBone's team is not one of them at the moment. I do like SamBone's writeup though, I think he did a good job of pointing out the overall backcourt factor actually being near equal when it wouldn't seem that way on first glance. However, I think the frontcourt edge is too much. Vote: BlackIce

bryant08 v. SamBone
I look at it like this. Moses averaged more points than Wilt, so that should automatically mean that he's the better player. Bobby Jones, and Sikma taking turns on McAdoo could potentially shut him down. Then we factor in the terrific play of 8 PPG Gus Williams, and Alex English, who have clearly shown in the future that they could be 22+ PPG scorers, it's an equally potent scoring option. And SamBone's very convincing writeup with all the reasons he should win sold me. Vote: bryant08 (this is not a mistake, the writeup was sarcastic).

bryant08 v. BlackIce
I'm not particularly sold on some of the backcourt positions BI has listed for his squad. DJ is a SG in this particular era, and not really a starer. bryant's backcourt is potent offensively, and should be able to outproduce BI's by a decent margin. I do acknowledge the 78' season, but Erving will still dominate this matchup individually. Lucas stretches out the defense, and rebounds, but he's facing another player that's not really in foreign territory on the perimeter. I think in a single matchup, McAdoo should certainly get the best of Lucas - a beast from mid-range, and finishing around the rim. And as much I like Caldwell, his scoring is a little overstated in his couple ABA seasons. Wilt was so unique, that he could still make a huge impact on the game without scoring the ball. Erving has a godly sort peak, which should be able to win a game or two, but the other advantages from 1-2, and 4-5 are too overwhelming.
Vote: bryant08

Keeslinator v. Snakebites
Kees has got the most talented backcourt in the game, but I think both of their main attributes overlap each other which reduces their overall effectiveness. Nonetheless they should have a big series. I didn't agree with Kees writeup about Snake's backcourt offensively, in fact I'd argue they are very potent offensively, with Monroe being one of the better offensive players in the league. And Roundfield isn't a sort of player you plan to attack either. Keye is an interesting player, with good size, length, and shot blocking that will probably be underrated, similar with Mel Daniels who was probably the ABA's best center of All-Time. I still think though, that Hayes and Kareem will provide too much offensive firepower, and better balance resides with Snakes team. Vote: Snakebites

Warspite v. Snakebites
I think this is a very similar matchup as well. Another high powered offense is what Warspite has built. Lanier and Truck should also create a potent frontcourt as well, with rebounding especially. Snake however still has the frontcourt dominance and I don't know if War's backcourt can outproduce Snakes enough to win the series. Wilkes is also a nice fit there at the SF position. Vote: Snakebites

Keeslinator v. Warspite
A battle of high powered offenses, with questionable but manageable fits. Rebounding is similar, so is the defense, so it really comes down to who can execute their offense better. I think War's scorers moreso fit with eachother, but Kees are more talented. Would rather not vote, but I guess I'll go with the team with the best player. Vote: Keeslinator

[Snakebites]

Obviously abstaining from voting within my own 3 team bracket.

Cellar vs. Lukekarts: Lukekarts, by default. I was a big fan of the way Lukekarts’ team was put together in almost all respects, and without a writeup from Cellar’s team to refute luke’s points I must vote this way.

Cellar vs. TMAC: TMAC, again, by default. Sorry Cellar, no writeup, so I have to assume what TMAC says will work.

Lukekarts vs. TMAC: Ah. Here is where it gets particularly interesting. These are both soundly constructed teams with scoring punch and plenty of grit defensively, and I enjoyed watching them get put together through this draft. Both were the benefactors of fortunate drops in the draft, and built impressive talent bases complete with proven winners as a result. I think Reed/Walton is an interesting matchup, but I have to agree with TMAC that Walton was the better overall player and will likely have the larger impact on this series. Generally speaking, I see TMAC’s team being about to match Luke’s defensive intensity, and while I am a fan of both Reed and especially Havlicek in terms of their offensive impact, I look at TMAC’s team and see a more diverse and efficient set of offensive weapons, and believe that he will be able to get around Luke’s defense a bit more effectively than vice versa. Given the caliber of players and fit on each team this will be a good series, but I give TMAC the nod. Vote: TMAC

Bryant08 vs Sam Bone: Bryant said it best. Sam Bone made an investment in the future with this draft, not the present. Bryant’s band of strong veterans shouldn’t have much trouble against this group. Heck, Sam Bone himself said as much. Vote to Bryant08.

Sam Bone vs BI: These are two teams with a decidedly “future” look to them, each with 3 or more keepers in their starting lineup. The difference? BI blended in some veteran talent as well, all anchored by two era MVP Julius Erving. Bobby Jones is used here as a small forward, even though he was primarily a pf/c at this stage in his career. Erving destroyed Jones and his team in the ABA Finals, so I believe regardless of the defense he will have a big series here. Other veteran scorers like Lucas, McGinnis, and Scott surround Erving to form a potent offensive punch. I believe this will be enough to carry the day. Vote goes to BI.

Bryant08 vs. BI: A hardcore “win now” team versus a team on its way up but also with a shot to contend in the current era. The front court advantage for Bryant08 is a little overbearing in this case. A young Caldwell Jones isn’t a match for Wilt Chamberlain, and Lucas is a shooter/rebounder, while McAdoo not only had a nice stretch game but a good overall arsenal offensively, and I don’t think the front court defense of BI is up to the task of taking that on. Dandrige isn’t Erving’s equal by any stretch, but I imagine him being able to play him reasonably well. The backcourt matchup appears to favor Bryant’s team as well, with Scott being very strong but DJ still being relatively undeveloped. I do like BI’s team and think he’s as well setup to play in the next era as just about anyone, but I see Bryant08 taking this matchup (for now). Vote: Bryant08

Miller vs. Gremz: Both teams have some question marks offensively, with the offense largely going through one inefficient but supremely talented scorer with a scoring center helping out. Defensively, however, I see Miller’s defense as decent and Gremz’s defense as lock down in many ways. Thurmond pairs with Gilmore to create an imposing interior defense not matched by his counterpart, and I don’t see Miller’s team having the mobility offensively up front to take advantage of the relative speed of Gremz’s front court (its only weakness). I see Gremz as being able to put the clamps on Miller’s offense and carrying the day. Vote: Gremz.

Mjallday vs. Miller

West and Barry, two of the best offensive players of the era, are both at their absolute peak in this game, and both have very strong side kicks helping them out in this series. Generally speaking, its difficult to get a very strong read on either team without concrete details about their gameplan and how they plan on exploiting the weaknesses of their teams. Given this read, I’m inclined to vote in favor of the more talented team of the two.

Vote: Mjallday

Mjallday vs. Gremz

This is a matchup of two drastically different teams, and the irony here is that Bill Russell is playing on the weaker of the two defensive teams. Unfortunatey, this version of Russell, while still a strong defender and first rate rebounder, was a lot easier to overlook on the offensive end than his counterpart at center. Conversely, Haywood was a player with the mobility to create problems for a team using two centers to man the middle as opposed to a more conventional lineup. As such, I feel both of these front courts generate problems for the other. Despite starting out with two strong defensive players in West and Russell, Mjallday’s team has a much more offensive feel to it, and this is both a positive and a detriment. Haywood was a gifted scorer, but also one who needed the ball in his hands a great deal, which isn’t something condusive to a team that will be heavily reliant on offensive diversity to win. Though Gremz doesn’t have the “ideal” offense, I feel he has sufficient room to operate opposite to Mj’s defense.

All in all, both teams are extremely interesting but I don’t see quite enough in Mj’s writeup to alleviate the concerns I have about how that team will operate, particularly against a defense like Gremz, where the level of play needs to be top notch to succeed.

Vote: Gremz.

[SamBone]

Sorry guys, had some unexpected issues at home this weekend. Don’t really have time to write up a good reasoning for my votes, but here is my vote

Gremz vs Miller : Gremz wins
Gremz vs MJ : Gremz wins
Miller vs MJ : Miller wins

TMac vs CD: Tmac by forfeit
Luke vs CD: Luke by forfeit
TMac vs luke: TMac wins

Kees vs Snake: Snake wins
Snake vs war: Snake wins
War vs Kees: very close, but I go with war here

[BlackIce]

Short and sweet. Hopefully. Well hopefully sweet, probably short. K.

Gremz vs Miller : Gremz (I'm a big fan of his defense, and offensive efficiency)
Gremz vs MJ : Gremz wins (if MJ had a bit more in his writeup he would have stood more of a chance here)
Miller vs MJ : MJ wins

TMac vs CD: Tmac by forfeit
Luke vs CD: Luke by forfeit
TMac vs luke: TMac wins (this one was tough for me, but peak Walton will be to much for Reed and I think that is where the match is won)

Kees vs Snake: Snake wins
Snake vs war: Snake wins
War vs Kees: Kees (War looks nice for next era, King is a monster soon)

[Gremz]

Cellardoor VS TMACFORMVP: TMACFORMVP
Cellardoor VS lukekarts: lukekarts
TMACFORMVP VS lukekarts: TMACFORMVP


Keeslinator vs Snakebites: Snakebites
Snakebites vs Warspite: Snakebites
Warspite vs Keeslinator: Keeslinator


bryant08 VS BlackIce: bryant08
BlackIce VS SamBone: BlackIce
SamBone VS bryant08: bryant08

[-Kees-]

Like the 2 above, I'm not going to put in a huge reasoning because I've been short on time the last few days. So here it is:

Gremz VS Miller: Gremz (SF-C just dominate from the perspective of Gremz)
Gremz VS MJ: MJ (West/Haywood carry the offense enough to pull out the victory)
Miller VS MJ: MJ (Better all-around win now team than Miller)

TMAC VS Cellar: TMAC (by forfeit)
Luke VS Cellar: Luke (by forfeit)
TMAC VS luke: TMAC (VERY close IMO, but I think the depth and star power of TMAC win this)

BI VS Bryant: Bryant (Close, but McAdoo/Wilt will be too much for BI's front court)
BI VS SamBone: BI (Both are built mostly for net era, Dr. J makes the difference)
SamBone VS Bryant: Bryant (Again, strong front court and better overall talent now)

[Warspite]

Tmac vs Cellar: tmac
Luke vs Cellar: Luke
TMac vs Luke: tmac

Bryant vs BL: Bryant
Bryant vs SB: Bryant
BL vs SB : BL

Gremz vs Miller: Miller
Miller vs MJ: Miller
Gremz vs MJ: Gremz This was the hardest one. I love West/Russell but Greer at SF is a horrible choice. I understand the 3 guard offense but vs Elgin Baylor its a disastor.

Ill give more detail in next rd. This rd has been pretty straight forward. No real surprises here. I also agree with Penbeasts post.

[penbeast0]

Did the issue of who actually has Rudy Tomjanovich get resolved? Because if he's actually on War's team it helps and if he isn't it leaves a hole.

[Gremz]

Did the issue of who actually has Rudy Tomjanovich get resolved? Because if he's actually on War's team it helps and if he isn't it leaves a hole.

Tomjanovich is on MJAllday59's team.

[TMACFORMVP]

I think I'm going to call the matchups, would have liked a little more, but seems each matchup has at least a two vote lead.

Brackets finishes are as follows (in order from first to last):
bryant08, BlackIce, SamBone.
Snake, Keeslinator, Warspite.
TMAC, lukekarts, CellarDoor
Gremz, MJallday59, Miller.

[Miller4ever]

I was going to just start writing it up, but it wouldn't change the results at all.

[penbeast0]

Did the issue of who actually has Rudy Tomjanovich get resolved? Because if he's actually on War's team it helps and if he isn't it leaves a hole.

Tomjanovich is on MJAllday59's team.

So who is the starting SF on Warspite's team then?

[CellarDoor]

My team was getting crushed regardless. I hate drafting in the middle of these things. Not to mention drafting players I know nothing about.

[lukekarts]

Sorry for not getting my rankings in last night, but it would've not affected the results at all. I'll make sure I'm more prompt next time.

[Warspite]

Did the issue of who actually has Rudy Tomjanovich get resolved? Because if he's actually on War's team it helps and if he isn't it leaves a hole.

Tomjanovich is on MJAllday59's team.

So who is the starting SF on Warspite's team then?

My apologies

O didnt see him drafted in list so took him. Can go with B King and Eddie Johnson. Dont think it makes any differance.

[TMACFORMVP]

Gremz v. TMAC
Snake v. bryant08

We'll just keep it in this thread. Make it due Thursday at noon.

Lotto for next eras top four picks will be announced in time.

[-Kees-]

So for me, BI, Luke, MJ, do we get any points for being 2nd in our division? Or do just the division winners get points?

[BlackIce]

And we're going to roll with the point system.

2 points - beating one team from robin round.
6 points - advancing past the initial robin round.
10 points - getting to the finals.
17 points - winning an era.

Two points, Kees.

[-Kees-]

And we're going to roll with the point system.

2 points - beating one team from robin round.
6 points - advancing past the initial robin round.
10 points - getting to the finals.
17 points - winning an era.

Two points, Kees.

Oh thanks, I didn't see that before