OT: what on earth are the bears doing?

[thedarkstark]

*sigh* Looks like the Bears are going to sign a bunch of busts and castoffs and call it an offseason. Meanwhile they're striking out on every available offensive linemen, and letting Kreutz walk/retire over a measely half a million dollars.

What do you guys think? I say this is the end of the lovie Smith Mike Martz era in Chicago and hopefully they take jerry angelo with them.

[Bluewaterheaven]

*sigh* Looks like the Bears are going to sign a bunch of busts and castoffs and call it an offseason. Meanwhile they're striking out on every available offensive linemen, and letting Kreutz walk/retire over a measely half a million dollars.

What do you guys think? I say this is the end of the lovie Smith Mike Martz era in Chicago and hopefully they take jerry angelo with them.

Kruetz was not worth 4 million let alone 4.5. He was one of the weakest links in the line. He is getting well past his years.

[MF Doom]

The Bears will be alright.

[thedarkstark]

*sigh* Looks like the Bears are going to sign a bunch of busts and castoffs and call it an offseason. Meanwhile they're striking out on every available offensive linemen, and letting Kreutz walk/retire over a measely half a million dollars.

What do you guys think? I say this is the end of the lovie Smith Mike Martz era in Chicago and hopefully they take jerry angelo with them.

Kruetz was not worth 4 million let alone 4.5. He was one of the weakest links in the line. He is getting well past his years.

While I agree that he is far from his probowl days, this is a guy who spent 13 years with the team and put his blood sweat and tears into this team, where is the loyalty? On top of that he is the best center available, even if he isn't that good anymore.

[organix85]

I say this is the end of the lovie Smith Mike Martz era in Chicago and hopefully they take jerry angelo with them.

I'd love the McCaskey's to be out... but we know that won't happen. So my next in line is Angelo. I think we'd be ok with him out the door.

[freshtrinity46]

I don't mind losing Olin as much, but I wish they would focus more on the line instead of Cowboys rejects. No excuses though, Martz has gotten completely what he wanted. I don't care if the whole line goes down and is replaced by some street bucket boys, if the offense fails he better not escape accountability

[thedarkstark]

*sigh* Looks like the Bears are going to sign a bunch of busts and castoffs and call it an offseason. Meanwhile they're striking out on every available offensive linemen, and letting Kreutz walk/retire over a measely half a million dollars.

What do you guys think? I say this is the end of the lovie Smith Mike Martz era in Chicago and hopefully they take jerry angelo with them.

Kruetz was not worth 4 million let alone 4.5. He was one of the weakest links in the line. He is getting well past his years.

While I agree that he is far from his probowl days, this is a guy who spent 13 years with the team and put his blood sweat and tears into this team, where is the loyalty? On top of that he is the best center available, even if he isn't that good anymore.

[jl342323]

*sigh* Looks like the Bears are going to sign a bunch of busts and castoffs and call it an offseason. Meanwhile they're striking out on every available offensive linemen, and letting Kreutz walk/retire over a measely half a million dollars.

What do you guys think? I say this is the end of the lovie Smith Mike Martz era in Chicago and hopefully they take jerry angelo with them.

kreutz and his agent botched this negotiation big time. 49ers didnt even come close to 4 mil that the bears offered. and they played hard to get for no reason. JA had to do something quick or he would've lost spencer. im ok with olin being gone, he's been terrible for last 3 years.

okoye is only 24 years old. i think marinelli can definitely help him get to his full potential. like this signing cause he seems to have the raw talents and is very smart

gholston played DE in the 3-4 and thats a lot different that playing it in 4-3. again we have mastermind defensive end coach is marinelli.

marian barber is a beast. this means bye bye to chester taylor i hope.

sam hurd is a 6-3 wr with toughness. he plays in all special teams and he can contribute some at the wr position

roy williams 6-3 wr. best pure wr we have right now. he will help alot in the red zone.

matt spaeth- matt spaeth came from steelers. a winner, blocking te

i want the bears to get kelvin hayden and resign matt forte to a long term deal

[LutenantDeng]

After last season Oline was top priority, and JA treated it like a last priority.

There is no excuse, they dropped the ball.

[Tetlak]

We should use that 3rd we got for Olsen and package it with a 5th for Osi Umenyiora

[Bullflip]

Don't know why everyone is mad that Kreutz is not with the Bears anymore. Last season he was horrible. Many times last season he got pushed around and he ended up on his back like a turtle.

[dice]

*sigh* Looks like the Bears are going to sign a bunch of busts and castoffs and call it an offseason. Meanwhile they're striking out on every available offensive linemen, and letting Kreutz walk/retire over a measely half a million dollars.

What do you guys think? I say this is the end of the lovie Smith Mike Martz era in Chicago and hopefully they take jerry angelo with them.

Kruetz was not worth 4 million let alone 4.5. He was one of the weakest links in the line. He is getting well past his years.

While I agree that he is far from his probowl days, this is a guy who spent 13 years with the team and put his blood sweat and tears into this team, where is the loyalty?

where's his loyalty to the bears? they were willing to overpay and he wouldn't take it

[DanTown8587]

*sigh* Looks like the Bears are going to sign a bunch of busts and castoffs and call it an offseason. Meanwhile they're striking out on every available offensive linemen, and letting Kreutz walk/retire over a measely half a million dollars.

What do you guys think? I say this is the end of the lovie Smith Mike Martz era in Chicago and hopefully they take jerry angelo with them.

Kruetz was not worth 4 million let alone 4.5. He was one of the weakest links in the line. He is getting well past his years.

While I agree that he is far from his probowl days, this is a guy who spent 13 years with the team and put his blood sweat and tears into this team, where is the loyalty? On top of that he is the best center available, even if he isn't that good anymore.

Bears offered above the market. He didn't take it. What more can the Bears do?

Honestly shocks me how people side players with almost everything in regards of a contract dispute but when owners want to lockout players in a sport, fans usually side with ownership.

[IWannaGoHIGHER]

I'll make a couple points:

-Kruetz move was the right choice personal wise. Kevin Seifert really said it best "right move, wrong timing." He was obviously declining and the face is we needed some more youth on this team. Sad to see him go and the timing was awful (see as we now have a very short training camp to get the new guy up to speed) but it was the right move.

-Olsens move was essentially saying "Mike Martz is going to be here for a long long time." Because what happens if in two years we haven't made the playoffs and the offense is still awful? Then he's fired and we have a crappy TE core. I think skill wise Davis is very close to were Olsen is and I don't mind Olsen being shipped. But not as just a talent dump.

- Roy Williams signing was a risk but I liked it. We had no WR that could beat the press last year. It was infuriating. Roy fixes that. Jay had trouble throwing picks in the end zone because he didn't have a go to red zone target (to an extent). Roy fixes that. But he's only been healthy for 16 games once in his career and he was pretty awful in Dallas. If the offense is going to be anywhere decent he needs to have a big year.

- About some of the other free agent signings. I liked the Barber one, in this day and age you can't have enough RB. I thought taking a risk on Gholston and Okoye were great moves. There was a reason they were drafted high they have a ton of talent. There still both young and if even one of them pans out we bring some youth and to an ageing defense. Spencer is a nice C I think he'll be a above average C with us for a few years. Its going to be hard following a leader like that and getting a new system on short notice will be hard.

-JA an idiot for only perusing two OL hard this off-season. His whole theory about the only way to let young talent develop is to play them is a total cop out. Why can't they improve in practice? Isn't that why you pay coaches?

- Realistically I would like the Bears to pursue Kelvin Hayden hard as well as another OLB and OG. But I don't think the Bears will sign another linemen but I think the first two are very doable. If they do both of those I'd be content with the off-season.

[BR0D1E86]

*sigh* Looks like the Bears are going to sign a bunch of busts and castoffs and call it an offseason. Meanwhile they're striking out on every available offensive linemen, and letting Kreutz walk/retire over a measely half a million dollars.

What do you guys think? I say this is the end of the lovie Smith Mike Martz era in Chicago and hopefully they take jerry angelo with them.

I think Kreutz has been living off of reputation for at least 2 years. He's been one of the worst centers in football. Spencer's decidedly average, which is much better than Kreutz has been in a long while. His leadership and line calls will be missed, but his play has been a joke.

The line is still awful, and the offseason hasn't played out the way I would have liked. But their value moves have been solid.

Okoye will, I think, be a steal. He was let go because he doesn't fit in Houston's new 3-4. He could fill a big need.

Barber is the short yardage back the Bears have desperately needed for a couple of years. Now they can end the mistake that was Chester Taylor. EDIT - replacing Kreutz with Spencer will help also. Kreutz was generally bad, but he almost unilaterally got annihilated in "and-1" situations. Spencer's a much better run blocker at this stage.

Roy Williams is one of my least favorite players of the past decade, but he's also probably the best WR on the roster. And he's the type of target Cutler likes. I think he'll have a good year. Not 80/1300 like when he was with Martz in Detroit, but good.

I still think the offensive line will ultimately hold them back, but it appears this is what we're going with. At worst, it's better than last year's line in my eyes. Kreutz is one of my favorite Bears ever, but he's flat out done. I wish it had been a more graceful exit, but frankly I'm glad that he's gone.

[BR0D1E86]

While I agree that he is far from his probowl days, this is a guy who spent 13 years with the team and put his blood sweat and tears into this team, where is the loyalty?

where's his loyalty to the bears? they were willing to overpay and he wouldn't take it

I'd like to quote that. The Bears offered to vastly overpay one of the worst centers in football. I loved Kreutz, but he needed to go. I'm glad he turned down 4 million.

[Action Paxson]

IMO Kreutz was the weakest link on a terrible O-line last year. I think Spencer should be an upgrade. I love the Gholston and Okoye signings, those could be great buy low players. Our defensive line can be great. We were terrible at the goal line last year, Barber should help us.

I really have liked what we have done thus far. I probably would have preferred Braylon Edwards to Roy Williams. If we could get Leonard Davis, I would be happy with that. Much like last year the O-line and secondary are the question marks, but if we're healthy we can contend. If we get contributions out of Okoye and Gholston relative to their potential, our defense will be in '06 form.

[BR0D1E86]

Basically here's where I am: Angelo has played this entirely differently than I would have, but I like virtually all of the value signings. One of them pays off it's a home run.

I'm happy with replacing Kreutz with Spencer. I want either one more legitimate guard or tackle starter in FA. It doesn't look like that's going to happen though.

I'd like to get Hayden. He's a good fit in the defense.

Other than that, some LB depth would be good.

Overall it's not a flashy offseason. It's not as bad as some are painting it to be though.


All in all, I'm no more of a fan of Angelo than anyone. But the Bears have been one of the more successful teams in the league under his watch. I'll continue to complain about him but whatever he does seems to be successful, at least for the most part.

[Cliff Levingston]

Cliff Levingston loves the value signings of Okoye and Gholston. Two former high 1st round picks with tons of athletic ability, youth and both mis-cast a bit in the 3-4. Granted, great players find ways to contribute no matter what, we can't expect either to be "great." However, it's not too much to ask to expect one or both of these guys to improve quite a bit into a good rotation player with a clean start, a scheme that fits them better and one of the best defensive line coaches in the business. It's not like there's a ton of competition in front of either one of them for a starting spot or a major chunk of playing time if they earn it.

The rest of the defense could use some work. It looks like Roach takes the starting Sam backer job but we have absolutely no backups to depend on. As always, the health of Briggs and Urlacher will be paramount to our success this year. We also have done absolutely nothing to address the cornerback spot that was shaky last year with an aging Tillman as our best CB. Not that Danieal Manning was great but he was a pretty decent, so we're expecting a lot of Major Wright and Chris Conte in addition to an aging Chris Harris. Our secondary is one or two injuries away from disaster.

Roy Williams is a nice pickup, all things considered. His size, chip and his shoulder and familiarity with the offense will hopefully materialize into a nice season. Not only that, but it allows us to use Hester on the inside in tandem with Earl Bennett.

Greg Olsen was finally traded. Lost in his athletic ability was the fact that he still wasn't a great blocker and was incredibly, almost impossibly soft for a guy his size. ICLO, Kellen Davis can do most, if not all, of what Olsen did for us while we (presumably) have a good, big blocking tight end for Martz's offense in Spaeth. A big problem last year with the offense was that Manumaleuna was brought into block and sucked at it.

Barber is the short-yardage back that we wanted last year. Remember Chester Taylor being named the goal-line back? Yuck. Barber helps there and is a solid vet to support Forte.

Couldn't agree more with the Kreutz talk, about him being over the hill. 8 years ago when the defensive linemen weren't all 300+ and Kreutz was in his physical prime, he was great. Now, not only has Kreutz been on the decline physically, he's just been too small compared to most DTs. He'll go down as one of the all-time great Bears for good reason but it's time to move on. Spencer provides an immediate upgrade on the field.

The rest of the line: yikes. Let's hope Webb worked hard in the offseason and Carimi is all that Angelo and Tice think he can be on the left side. Williams better find his first-round potential at LG and Garza better be solid or else Cutler will be on his ass more often than not. As stupid as it sounds though, as least at the moment, we've upgraded the line, if only slightly.

Carimi > Omiyale (we hope, for now)
Williams = Williams
Spencer > Kreutz
Garza = Garza
Webb > Webb (slightly, due to another year of development, hopefully).

[Midway Bully]

IMO Kreutz was the weakest link on a terrible O-line last year. I think Spencer should be an upgrade. I love the Gholston and Okoye signings, those could be great buy low players. Our defensive line can be great. We were terrible at the goal line last year, Barber should help us.

I really have liked what we have done thus far. I probably would have preferred Braylon Edwards to Roy Williams. If we could get Leonard Davis, I would be happy with that. Much like last year the O-line and secondary are the question marks, but if we're healthy we can contend. If we get contributions out of Okoye and Gholston relative to their potential, our defense will be in '06 form.

Kreutz was hardly the weakest link. What amazes me about people still sticking to Kreutz is the fact that this was a guy who supposedly "held the line together" for all the years he's been in Chicago, yet the line had fallen apart completely these past few years, and his play was no better than his linemates. When he was good, he was great, but let's face it, the guy was a 33rd ranked center last year. Spencer is a better run blocker, though not as good a pass blocker as Kreutz. He's somewhat of an upgrade, but seems more like a stopgap solution more than anything. I'm not really buying into the whole "Tice will make him decent" route that everyone seems to be taking, though that is also what I'm hoping.

Roy Williams is probably the best WR on this team right now, and that speaks to just how mediocre this group really is. I got my fingers crossed that Knox and Bennett finally step up, in fact, I'm counting on Bennett to become the go-to guy. Him and Cutler had some chemistry going towards the end of last year. Knox should start running better routes, especially in year 2 of Martzfense. He was responsible for 4 or 5 Cutler interceptions. Williams should help in the end zone, and he runs good routes, but the guy has had one of the worst drop rates in the NFL the past 5 years, and will absolutely let that ball drop if he hears footsteps while running through the middle. He can be a locker room cancer, and with Kreutz gone, this could become an even bigger problem.

Okoye, Gholston and Barber all seem like safe choices, and all of them are pretty much castoffs that didn't play up to their potential. Gholston can be labelled a certified bust at this point, especially with no sacks in 3 years as a DE, but he also played in a 3-4 scheme that didn't really fit him. I'm hoping Marinelli can making him a serviceable 3rd down rusher. The presence of Peppers should obviously help. Don't know what to say about Okoye, haven't seen much of him. Barber was a beast for the Cowboys his first few years, a TD machine, but the guy has fallen off the map the last few years. He was pretty much automatic the first few years in short yardage situations, but not so much anymore. But of course, the Cowboys have had a history of not utilizing all their skill position players in the right way, and Barber could be good for the Bears. This will probably mean the end of Chester Taylor.

Heard the Bears were going for Edwards pretty hard, but they eventually pulled out of a bidding war. Still need to pick up a guard or 2 for the O-Line, I do not want to see Chris Williams playing football again. Edwin Williams doesn't exactly make you feel good either. Also need another DB, heard we were going for Kelvin Hayden, but he's been mediocre lately too. I think we're done at WR, don't see us taking anyone else. We also need some LBs, we need frickin backups for Briggs/Urlacher!! Hope they pick up Lofa Tatupu, since Tim Ruskell seems to have shown his hand with the Spencer signing. Also I would absolutely be ecstatic if we go for Umenyiora. Imagine him and Peppers on the same line, my mouth waters just thinking about that.